Would The World Be A Better Place Without Divorce?
Posted by: Carrie Wasterlain
Filed in:
relationships
12:50PM, Tuesday July 14th 2009
Coming from a divorced family, I have spent my life questioning the idea of a life-long commitment. Most of the adults I know have been divorced at least once, and of the couples who are still married, most of them (along with their kids) appear miserable. And so, while I would love to find a companion whose company I will enjoy “‘til death do us part,” I’ve learned from observation that this just might not be a realistic goal. And is it so horrible to think that maybe we weren’t supposed to spend our entire lives with one person? Is traditional marriage the best—or only—way?
Caitlin Flanagan, author of the Time article “Is There Hope for the American Marriage?” thinks so. But I just don’t agree with the lady who claims that there is “no other single force causing as much measurable hardship and human misery in this country as the collapse of marriage.”
Flanagan’s lengthy piece starts with a few anecdotes about recent political affair scandals, which she uses to demonstrate the point that marriage can either be a wonderful security in an “uncaring world” or, in Senator John Ensign and Senator Mark Sanford’s cases, “a matchless tool for the infliction of suffering on the people you supposedly love above all others, most of all on your children.” I agree that affairs are not the answer. But most ended marriages aren’t the outcome of adultery, they’re a result of incompatibility. I just don’t believe that a miserable couple should stay hitched for the sake of “tradition.”
The next part of Flanagan’s article discusses the changes “The American Family” has undergone throughout the past decades—according to sociologist Andrew J. Cherlin, contemporary American families are characterized by ‘frequent marriage, frequent divorce,’ and a number of ‘short-term co-habiting relationships.’ In his book, he claims ‘these forces create a great turbulence in American family life, a family flux, a coming and going of partners on a scale seen nowhere else. There are more partners in the personal lives of Americans than in the lives of people of any other Western country.’
As to why Americans seem more promiscuous and less destined for life-long relationships than inhabitants of other countries, I’m not sure. Maybe it has to do with the fact that America doesn’t have an official religion (and most religions adamantly discourage divorce), or maybe it has to do with the intensifying pop/sex culture in the States. Or maybe, just maybe, it has to do with the fact that we’ve figured out that we (or what seems like most of us) aren’t meant to spend our lives with one person. A century ago, people only lived to an average age of 47. No wonder the divorce rates were lower—“‘til death do us part” wasn’t a very long commitment! The question is, are rising divorce rates detrimental for American society?
Flanagan says that “[divorce] hurts children, reduces mothers’ financial security, and has landed with particular devastation on those who can bear it least: the nation’s underclass.” She raises the issue that an “astonishing” 39.7 percent of births are to unmarried women, and that “the vast majority of unmarried women having babies are undereducated and have low incomes.” But Flanagan seems to suggest that putting a ring on or keeping a ring on that pregnant woman’s finger will solve the problem of “hardship and human misery” that comes with raising a child alone. I don’t think it’s a lack of traditional marriage that’s a problem among the poor, or the wealthy, but an issue of whether a person is ready financially, emotionally, or physically to have, and properly care for, a child. And a proposal certainly doesn’t mean you are—or ever will be—ready in any of these ways.
I know a few single mothers raising their kids horribly and a few raising their children wonderfully. I see the same discrepancies among married couples (and, by the way, the children raised by a dysfunctional couple don’t usually do so well). Flanagan’s claim that “on every single significant outcome related to short-term well-being and long-term success, children from intact, two-parent families outperform those from single-parent households.” First of all, I just don’t think this is true. And secondly, I have a feeling that this has little to do with whether families are “intact” and more to do with how the kids are raised—what resources, financial, emotional, etcetera, are available to them.
My parents divorced when I was seven, and, looking back, I can honestly say I’m glad they did. It forced me to grow up a whole lot faster, prepared me to deal with future hardships I might encounter, and above all, allowed my parents to leave their miserable state of marriage and find companions they were happy with. Maybe it’s selfish for a parent to want to find happiness again, but it’s also selfish to make your kids endure your tumultuous marriage. I understand Flanagan’s point that there is an abundance of young, financially unstable single parents, but I have zero faith that sticking these parents in a marriage will solve the problem. Education and financial support might be far more helpful.
Props to you if you can make a life-long commitment work, but if you can’t, I don’t think you should be blamed for contributing to the destruction of our nation. Sorry to disappoint you, Flanagan, but I think America is finally realizing that marriage isn’t always as wonderful, or necessary, as we once thought it was. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.
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Joey Daytona
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 12:58 pm: [report]
My parents asked me at age 14 if it was OK if they split up and I was fine with it, for awhile. I keep reading about the threat that ‘disposable marriage’ is doing to our society and very little on how forcing/guilting the not-completely-ready into marriage is doing another form of damage. There is no guarantee of success, but I advocate living together first and, of course by that, I mean pre-marital sex as well.
Perceptible
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:09 pm: [report]
My parents divorced when I was 7. My aunt divorced when I was 14. My mom remarried and divorced again when I was 16. I myself am divorced and am dating a man who is divorced.
With all of this I still have to defend marriage. It’s not the institution that’s broken, it’s the people who enter into it. People have changed, roles have changed, society has changed, but our ideas about marriage haven’t. It’s setting the right expectations, making a smart decision, and yes, recognizing when it’s not working.
I still believe in marriage and I think it’s a wonderful, beautiful thing… but it’s not for everyone. And it’s okay when it’s not for you. But we say to our kids, “well, when you get married…” setting the expectation that they “will” get married, instead of they “might” get married one day. It should be presented as an option, not as the next phase in someone’s life. Maybe if that were the case fewer people would get married, and therefor, fewer would get divorced.
Christinaval
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:14 pm: [report]
Well, I don’t think people should have ever been ALLOWED to get divorced. That would, #1, make people think pretty long and hard before they did get married (it’s too easy nowadays to get a divorce), and #2, once they were married if parts of it sucked, well, they would sure find a way to be happy because they had no other choice…so they wouldn’t be living miserably, if they knew they had to stick with that person and there was no other option. That’s just my sick twisted way of dealing with it.
*sam*
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:16 pm: [report]
While, I completely agree with your premise that divorce isn’t exactly destroying America, I still hold that it’s quite possible to have a loving, life-long commitment to another person. Maybe it’s because I come from a more traditional home (my parents are actually celebrating their 30yr anniversary this month—yay for mom & dad!!), but I think the whole “people just aren’t meant to spend the rest of their lives with only one other person” argument to be cop-out for people who have either not found the right person to make them *want* to make that commitment, or they are so scared about the idea of commitment that they have abandoned the entire notion as ridiculous and out-dated. Admittedly, not everyone is cut-out for life-long partnerships, but I don’t believe commitment can, or should, be thrown into the realm of ‘human nature’.
Moreover, the divorce rate of those with a lower SES (socio-economic status) is astonishing. However, this is primarily due to the fact that monetary insecurities (that and sexual dysfunction) have the greatest impacts on a marriage. Basically, lower SES is a *huge* risk-factor for divorce—divorce does not necessarily cause a lower SES, as people such as Flanigan purport (usually in order to illustrate a poorly supported and religiously-backed argument about the derailment of the nuclear family and its devastating impact on our nation’s youth).
Kudos to you for highlighting the idiocy in Flanagan’s argument (particularly the bit about children of two-parent households continuously out-performing those of single-parent households)—it’s just a shame that so many people take this garbage to be fact :(
AgentBeryllium
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:21 pm: [report]
@Christinaval: So what is your take on a woman who marries a man who seems decent only to discover after the marriage he is a sociopathic monster? She she should stay with them then?
*sam*
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:24 pm: [report]
@Christinaval—are you serious? what about domestic abuse??? are you REALLY saying that if a partner is being abused they should not be allowed to dissolve their marriage?? that they should, in fact “find a way to be happy”—WHAT!?!?
oh yes, please honey, beat me again. i just *LOVE* the way your fist feels against my jaw. and the way you slap me, it’s like caressing my cheek with force.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?
bumbler
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:30 pm: [report]
I don’t see a problem with the institution of marriage. I think the issue is the manner in which we tend to enter into marriage. People rarely seem to grasp the import of a life-long commitment. I’ve seen so many couples with various dysfunctions from financial to sexual and when asked why they got married if this was an issue they responded “We never talked about this stuff before we got married.” Too few people are taking the time to actually get to know their future spouse before the wedding and discussing all aspects of their union including those that are uncomfortable. If you can’t talk to them about it this should be a major red flag. In short I see many people get married because they feel like it, it’s time, they want the wedding, they’re in love now. Love should never be the only basis for starting a family with someone, without basic compatibility you’re doomed.
AgentBeryllium
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:31 pm: [report]
@ *sam* Virtual HI 5! Thank you!!
GreenAura
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:32 pm: [report]
I think a lot of people take the easy way in and the easy way out. Some people get married for the wrong reasons (like $$, or because you think you’re getting old and you jump on the first thing to propose), then they divorce and its supposed to be surprising? And likewise, some people get married for all the right reasons and divorce over something minor. Irreconcilable differences? give me break!! How about really thinking long and hard over getting married then exhaust every avenue you can before deciding to put the nail in the coffin. MANY people that get divorced wish they would have stayed married to their first spouse when they realize what a douche #2 ended up being.
sparklestar
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:34 pm: [report]
No, because men and women would still find a way to leave each other. What would be the point in preventing it?
If two people are making each other MISERABLE then why stick around?
I Go To 11
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:41 pm: [report]
@ Perceptible: I’m with you on this one. I agree with your whole post, actually.
I’m a divorcee myself, and it was for the better that we split because not only were we incompatible, but he also had issues with alcohol and adultery. I knew it’d be better for me and my daughter (who was a baby at the time) to leave that situation because it definitely wasn’t good for us to stay.
However, my maternal grandparents did the whole “stay together for the kids” crap and it wreaked a whole lot of havoc on their 4 children. All of them have been divorced at least once and have each said that their parents should’ve split much earlier because their home life was terrible. My mother went to live with my great-grandparents during high school because she couldn’t take it anymore. My grandmother still badmouths my grandfather to anyone within earshot, and they divorced over 20 years ago. (He doesn’t say anything about her, though, so I don’t know what her deal is.) So for all the bellyaching about divorce being a horrible thing, the alternative of staying in a broken marriage is much worse for all involved.
*sam*
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:41 pm: [report]
@msPriss: hi 5 back
it just irks me to end when people make the claim that divorce is unacceptable in all circumstances. while divorce could pose a significant hurdle in a child’s life, it is **far** more unacceptable (in my book at least) to force a child to endure a dysfunctional (and often times maladaptive) marriage between his/her parents for the sake of tradition or social taboos.
I Go To 11
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:43 pm: [report]
@ msPriss: That’s EXACTLY what happened in my case. Seemed like a great guy, but eventually his true colors came out…and trust me, they weren’t pretty.
bellarose
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:47 pm: [report]
@*sam*: I totally agree with you, the agrument that we’re not meant to be with one person for the rest of our lives is a cop-out but I think there are important factors to consider BEFORE you get married, like being in long-term relationships with other people, figuring out what you want, what you don’t want, and waiting for the right person and the right timing to get married. I also think that there are some people out there who are not cut out for long-term commitments or just can’t handle that based on past experiences, bad realtionships, or some other reason. My parents are celebrating 23 years and my grandparents were married for 72 years. I think some mistakes people can make are getting married because thier partner is pregnant, they are in the bliss of a relationship at a very young age, they are religious and want to have sex (personally, I think that’s the worst one out there!) or they have never been in a serious realtionship and are afraid to lose it - but we all make mistakes and whose to say that these mistakes are ruining America?
AgentBeryllium
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:48 pm: [report]
@I go to 11:I will be very frank some people act like their mothers didn’t raise them right and have no clue how to treat other people.
Abuse is never to be tolerated no matter what the circumstances.
My father was very abusive towards my mother and me. Them getting divorced was the best thing to happen to me.
*sam*
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 01:59 pm: [report]
@bellarose: I totally agree. I’ve lived in military towns my pretty much my whole life and have seen some pretty terrible reasons to get married. I’m actually dating a marine right now, and we’ve had to fight the urge to run off to the court house many times—especially when we’re eating ramen every night and a trip to the ER highlights how sucky it is that i don’t have health insurance….
joyy
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 02:07 pm: [report]
Oh please, it is not a cop-out to say that humans aren’t wired for lifelong monogamy. Marriage/lifelong mongamy is a social construct, plain and simple. Some people love it, some people destroy their lives trying for it.
I’m not for it, personally, but I know plenty who are, and I would just hope they take the good advice that is recurring in the comments: work out stuff like financial/sexual/etc compatibility BEFORE getting married, and then take what they are doing (pledging lifelong committment) seriously. We should take all major life decisions seriously and do so deliberately, in an informed way. Marriage (and divorce) is no different.
KatWilder
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 02:30 pm: [report]
There is nothing wrong with marriage per se. It still works in one way or another for about half the population (depending on your view of “works”).
The bigger problem is that we often marry the wrong person or we marry for the wrong reasons or we have highly unrealistic expectations about our partners — or all three! If we could get that part right, we’d probably see more happier marriages.
lea322
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 02:37 pm: [report]
If we would stop viewing marriage (and relationships in general) as a way to make ourselves happy, I think we would be a lot better off as a society. Obviously, good relationships DO make us happy, and that’s great, but it shouldn’t be the main goal. A marriage should be a partnership between two compatible people with similar goals, two people working together to live life the way they see fit. It’s NOT about butterflies in your stomach or great sex or feeling wanted/validated. All of those things are great results of a healthy relationship, but they shouldn’t be what we are seeking exclusively.
I think if people took more time in choosing a partner and weren’t so hypnotized by the Hollywood happily-ever-after garbage, we’d be a lot better off. And I do think (with cases of abuse as an exception), it should be much more difficult for people to jump ship.
lea322
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 02:38 pm: [report]
And, if they weren’t so much fun, I would say do away with weddings altogether. Just go to the courthouse. I think a lot of women dream about a wedding…not a marriage.
AgentBeryllium
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 02:42 pm: [report]
@lea322: EXCELLENT POINT! The wedding industry is still going strong in this economy. Has anyone seen Bridzillas or Faboulous Weddings on the WEtv channel? This is very very true!
Christinaval
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 02:49 pm: [report]
WOW. Well, what I meant was getting divorced for “irreconcilable differences” or something other than cheating or abuse, obviously. I should have clarified. I was just making a general statement, if divorce weren’t allowed for petty differences (I obviously realize this could never WORK in our society), then this wouldn’t be an issue and people would learn that you have to actually take accountability for what you do.
*sam*
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 02:52 pm: [report]
@lea: I completely agree
and I blame Walt Disney 100% for my slightly bratty tendencies when my boyfriend and I discuss the ‘m-word’. Damn you Cinderella and Ariel!!
AgentBeryllium
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 03:09 pm: [report]
@*sam*: THATS the excuse I should use!
lea322
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 03:19 pm: [report]
Maybe this is cheesy, but the whole thing reminds me of the couple in “He’s Just Not That Into You” played by Jennifer Aniston and Ben Affleck. (spoiler alert!) They had a great relationship WITHOUT marriage, so the marriage ceremony that eventually happened came out of a mutual desire to make the other one happy and to really underscore their commitment to each other. The married couple in the movie that divorced clearly got married because of societal pressure.
Dave The Rave
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 03:44 pm: [report]
Back eons ago, people took their wedding vows seriously. “For better or for worse, for rich of for poor, in sickness and in health…......” My parents celebrated their 50th, my sister her 25th and my brother his 10th anniversary. My fathers’ side NEVER had a divorce in 200 years. My mothers’ side is notorious for divorces. I see and hear i all the time and get sick of it. Don’t marry someone unless you are totally commited. End of story.
Dave The Rave
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 03:45 pm: [report]
I meant “I see it all the time.”
I Go To 11
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 04:05 pm: [report]
@ lea322 and msPriss: Ugh, I get so disgusted watching some of those women on “Bridezillas”! I’m planning a wedding at the moment (less than 3 months to go, woot!), and I can’t fathom behaving even remotely like them. I know the women that say things like, “This is my day and he’s ruining it for me!” when their fiances aren’t bowing to one of their crazy demands clearly aren’t in it for the right reasons. Although, I have to laugh at the one bride who insisted on wearing a “bride-to-be” sash everywhere she went and had a crown made for her fiance to wear in the ceremony because they were both “royalty”. @@
And FWIW, we’re not driving ourselves into debt over our wedding, either, because that’s just stupid. My dad’s girlfriend told me about a wedding her mom attended for a distant relative that was held at this very upscale country club; 7-course meal, waiters in tuxedos, all very hoity-toity and it (of course) came at an astronomical expense. Said newlyweds were divorced 6 months later…due to arguing over the cost of the wedding.
Dave The Rave
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 04:29 pm: [report]
I Go To 11:
That’s funny! The wedding where money was no object and then they broke up because of it. I told my co-workers that if I ever got married, I would book the reception at the local pizza place and pay the owner off in cash that night. We were all laughing!
TotallyRidiculous
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 05:56 pm: [report]
What really gets me is these statistics that supposedly prove that children are always better off if their parents stay together. I always see these divorce vs. married statistics and I can’t help but think, how much worse off would these kids be if their parents had stayed in a bad marriage? I don’t see any statistics that prove kids in unhappy marriages do better than kids with divorced parents (because that would be an extremely difficult study). But every single person I know who comes from a divorced family (myself, my mother and her siblings included) would have been MUCH worse off if our parents had stayed together.
My parents divorced when I was 3 and it was the best decision they could have made for my welfare, and I never wished they’d stayed together.
vaiaster
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 06:25 pm: [report]
people choose to get a divorce and people choose to be miserable. both my husband’s and my parents are still married, at 41 and 36 years. i believe you can work it out, just don’t work so hard at being bitchy over everything because that’s a choice too.
HarlemGirl
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 06:28 pm: [report]
There is LOADS of empirical evidence that proves that children that grow up in a two parent household fare better in life. Period. Now, that does not take into account parents that are abusive, loveless, or any of the other things that may happen in relationships. Nor does it mean that children that grow up in single parent households will not do well in life, but we have to be realistic about this phenomenon over the long run.
In fact, this breakdown in family structure (resulting in single mothers) is recognized as the #1 factor in the decline of African-American performance in this country. I think this “choice” to be single is the exception rather than the norm. Most people get divorced due to poor planning, not some major breakthrough about human nature.
Marriage is not ONLY about love. It never has been.
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vowedmom
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 08:04 pm: [report]
I’m a family researcher and the research she quoted is true. It’s not like kids of divorce are destined for misery, but life is harder. It’s very simple. Biological parents do better (think evolutionary). 2 people are stronger than 1. The ability to love a spouse, be kind, decent and be family-oriented is good for marriage and for kids. If our society walks away from that, can we stay strong in the face of future disasters, wars, threats and recessions without strong families?
The problem with divorce that I have (other than morally not keeping a vow) is that the parents get their happiness, but the kids lose a parent they typically wanted to keep, the kids get bounced from house to house. I think the kids should have the power to delay divorce for 5 years, and the kids get the house, and the parents have to visit them
But seriously, some marriages never should have happened (abuse, psychopaths, etc.). But if the purpose of marriage is happiness, wrong goal. The purpose of marriage is family ties, and a partner to mature in life with. Throughout life I want my family including husband there, the one I married at 21, who can sometimes be a jerk or selfish, but so can I. He’s my family, just like our kids, my brothers or nephews. I don’t walk away from my family- well unless they try and kill me - Grin.
vowedmom
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 08:15 pm: [report]
When should you move in together? If you want to know when is the right time to move in together read this researcher from University of Denver http://slidingvsdeciding.blogspot.com/ He’s great.
Take home message from Dr. Stanley: Commit yourself first, then move in. Some marry or get engaged and then move in and that’s their moral choice. But those who move in just to try living together- don’t do well in many ways. Basicly it’s not the same to “try it” together as it is to be committed- people don’t act the same when they’re living together as when they’re either married or lifetime-committed. So you can’t really try it. Makes total sense seeing all my friends who try it and it never seems to work out, and then they marry someone and it works out fine. Those who plan to spend their future together and then move in together, they do better overall.
stormygirl
wrote on July 14 2009 @ 08:29 pm: [report]
@ sam and msPriss, thank you! I totally agree with you guys. My mom had do deal with being married to my dad who happened to be a verbally, emotionally abusive a**hole. she put up with a lot of s**t to raise and protect me and my brother. I wish that she would have gotten divorced. we all would have been a lot happier.
cadyms
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 02:36 am: [report]
@ TotallyRidiculous and HarlemGirl: Sociologists like Cherlin (quoted in the article), Booth, and others would say that kids do better in a 2 parent family EXCEPT in the case of a high-conflict marriage.
GreenAura
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 08:01 am: [report]
@ vowedmom: you stated that happiness is the wrong goal, and that family ties and having someone to mature with should be the basis of marriage. I think your reasoning is why people get divorced. Why wouldn’t happiness be the ultimate goal?? If you and your husband are both happy in the marriage, it will trickle down to your kids happiness in the family. Marrying someone on the basis of being able to mature with them sounds rather naive because you don’t know how that person is going to change over time. The man you married at 21 may not be the man you want to be with at 51. People change. But if you marry because you love him, he loves you and you are both happy, that at least sounds like a better jumping off point to begin a life together. I guess I just don’t understand your view.
On a side note, I think couples should wait several years after living together before they decide to have children. Kids will change the entire dynamic of the relationship. You need time to have fun together, get to really really know each other, and truly decide if this is going to work before you involve children. Remember, you will always have a way out, your children won’t!
joyy
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 08:05 am: [report]
@GreenAura - I saw the handful of comments saying marriage isn’t supposed to be all about happiness as meaning more that you can’t expect the other person/your marriage together to be responsible for your personal happines. Each person is responsible for their own sanity/happiness, and looking to others/a relationship to be responsible for that (instead of a lovely part of it) can lead to problems very, very fast.
GreenAura
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 08:15 am: [report]
@ joyy: that definitely makes much more sense. Although I love my husband more than anything, his happiness is his responsibility and likewise for me. We went into our relationship knowing that and I think that is what keeps us wanting more. We don’t need each other, we WANT each other. That alone makes a huge difference!
Carrie Wasterlain
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 08:53 am: [report]
@Totally Ridiculous: I would like to see some of those studies too!
retro chic
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 09:01 am: [report]
@article: I think the world would be a better place without unhappy or misguided marriages. My mom used to say “They should make it harder to get married, and easier to get divorced – not the other way around.” She, as one who got married very quickly “for love,” twice within weeks of meeting each husband, then divorcing them after long, unhappy marriages. She meant that people need to marry for the right contractual, ie, conscious reasons, not just the emotional/security ones, as others here have noted. She emphasized that so often, sexual love and all those cosmic coincidences are mistaken for soulmate unions. Attraction ≠ compatibility.
She thought there should be cohab, sex and marriage courses – I don’t mean pre-cana – with certification of completion. It would determine both parties were a) fit for each other, and b) fit for marriage, period. Some really *aren’t* cut out for it. So her 20/20 hindsight theory is that the reality checks and patience to jump thru all those hoops of true compatibility would weed out the weak pairings before actually “mating.” Those left standing could advance to the altar. If after the commitment to problem-solve no longer allows them to live happily, or peaceably in marriage, then no-fault divorce would be possible (abuse, etc, notwithstanding).
Now, whether or not *she* thought this would ever realistically be implemented, she believed in longer waiting periods before marriage. All in all, she thought, the best way to hedge divorce, is to marry well with broader areas of compatibility and *INTERdependence,* with your eyes open to all the “faults,” ie, things that make one human, have common life philosophies and goals, and a commitment to problem-solve – or not get married at all. Couples should stand shoulder-to-shoulder facing the same horizon – not face-to-face seeing only their own reflections in each others eyes, just to face-off as adversaries when the illusions/delusions fade.
That was a divorced parent’s view. I’ll save *my* child-reaction to my parents volatile marriage and how it informed *my* views on marriage/divorce for part deux.
SeaWorthy
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 09:03 am: [report]
I read the original article and was completely annoyed at the leaps in logic. As an analyst, I never believe any “conclusions” drawn from these types studies. Why? Because, for the most part, you can predefine the answers you want based upon the questions you ask and the questions you do not ask. Also, especially with a ‘soft science’ that is highly subjective, you can slice the data almost anyway you want to produce an answer in the realm you desire. The reality is that there are far too many variables in the human psyche.
As to marriage, an institution originally created, and arranged, to join families to increase an entire family’s power, social standing, and wealth….nothing to do with love. Marriage is still used for that purpose, but it also was/is used to provide “financial” security to women over the decades. Yes, having a partner to lean on is nice and takes some of the provider pressure off, but sorry, no ‘study’ will ever convince me that it is the optimum way to live you life. Society has changed and yet, the institution of marriage remains the same…based upon that it is bound to fail.
SeaWorthy
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 09:05 am: [report]
@vowedmom, “The problem with divorce that I have […] is that the parents get their happiness, but the kids lose a parent they typically wanted to keep, the kids get bounced from house to house. I think the kids should have the power to delay divorce for 5 years, and the kids get the house, and the parents have to visit them”
If kids lose a parent to divorce, then the parent in question was likely not a very good parent. Kids power to delay divorce? Really? They get that power based upon the fact that they were born? Based upon their years and years of experience so they know what is better for all involved? Kids should keep the house? Really? You are assuming that there is a house involved. Ah the white, picket Rockwellian skewed view of the world.
I need to rant for a minute about children. We seem to have become a society that believes children ‘deserve’ no hardships in life. Life does not come with guarantees. Making the world “perfect” for our children only sets them up for failure. Life is about learning to deal with the good and the bad. It is about learning to understand sadness and happiness. How can you appreciate the good times without surviving the bad? How can you learn empathy if you have not experienced defeat, hurt and pain yourself?
majicksand
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 09:06 am: [report]
I married for all the wrong reasons the first time. I was young, recently traumatized, and emotionally needy. He was looking for a trophy wife without substance. When I got my head together and emerged as a real person the trouble began. By the end there were serious problems—drugs, violence, child endangerment… I grabbed my son and got out.
Three weeks ago I got married again. (It’s been 15 years since the first time) I let my new husband know that marriage was a prerequisite from the beginning of our relationship. If he had no interest in heading that direction at some point that we needed to go our separate ways immediately.
Even though my first marriage was a disaster, I believe in the validity of the committment. There were all sorts of red-flags the first time that I ignored or wasn’t mature enough to see. This time I made the effort to walk in with my eyes wide open. I spent time thinking about all the little quirks that annoy the hell out of me and decided if any of them were deal-breakers. I made the conscious decision that they were not. Now when he irritates me I can let it go because I chose to accept those failings before I made the committment.
Yes, we’ve only been married three weeks, but we’ve been together for a couple of years. We’ve been living, working, and socializing together for over a year. We are literally together 24/7. Not only am I not ready to kill him, I love him more everyday. Our friends find our continued and obvious devotion nauseating. lol.
I did have a moment of panic right after the wedding. It wasn’t about him, it was about marriage in general. I kept thinking, “this was a disaster the first time. What was I thinking doing it again?” I found out a few days ago.
I had to put my cat to sleep Saturday night. He had an event so had been gone all day while I worked. We had plans for the evening, but he didn’t question cancelling. There was also no question of making me take the cat to the vet alone while he went out. He held my hand, let me cry, and made our excuses to our friends.
I’m not saying he wouldn’t have done all that before we got married. The difference is how I felt. When I pulled myself together, I realized that I felt more secure knowing he’s my husband. He made a committment to me in front of God and the world that I would never have to handle a traumatic situation alone again for as long as he lives.
Marriage may not be for everyone, and I certainly don’t advise entering into it on a whim. I just know that, for me, publicly and legally declaring that we are a team for the rest of our lives made sense. He’s my best friend, my lover, a father to my children. I can’t imagine my life without him, and I’m glad we chose to declare our intentions of “til death do us part”.
bogart4017
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 09:24 am: [report]
Its unfort but divorce is needed, especially where children are involved. Could you stay married to someone you found out was a child molester or wife-beater?
I Go To 11
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 09:29 am: [report]
@ majicksand: Your first marriage sounds an awful lot like my first marriage. Seems there’s a lot of common ground between a bunch of us on this issue. But like you, the 2nd time around will be better; I’m getting married in October, but we’ve been together for 2 years and lived together for 1. (He’s the exact opposite of my ex, and by that I mean he’s actually a mature, responsible adult.) I can’t imagine finding anyone else that’s more compatible with me. Yay for happier endings!
fetchfox
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 10:04 am: [report]
@vowedmom, “The problem with divorce that I have […] is that the parents get their happiness, but the kids lose a parent they typically wanted to keep, the kids get bounced from house to house.”
This isn’t always the case. My parents divorced when I was eleven. I made it clear to the court that I refused to go through visitation every other week. I ended up essentially setting-up my own terms. I would contact my father when I chose to see him and we would set an appointment.
My parents divorce wasn’t easy, but it was much better for me than their marriage. Though I wasn’t privy to all the sordid details until the divorce I still knew that things were not well. Their divorce also taught me how to stand-up for myself. It taught me how to take care of myself.
I believe that I’m a stronger, more confident person for the hardships I’ve gone through. Children are very resilient.
I also believe that few people enter into divorce proceedings lightly or flippantly.
GirlyLocks
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 10:07 am: [report]
My parents divorced when I was 12. It was the best thing that ever happened. We (the kids) were tired of the constant fighting. They were afraid to tell us, but we all had the same feeling of relief when told.
I also married too young the first time. We got so busy planning the wedding that the marriage issues got pushed aside. We figured we were going to marry eventually anyway, why not then (after dating on/off for five years). The marriage lasted less than 3 years before I filed for divorce. It, too, was for the best. We were too young, and we had very different goals in life. One of us (likely me) would have had to compromise everything and never be happy, resenting the other forever. It wasn’t worth it. Thankfully, we had no children.
I remarried 10 years ago. We had a very small ceremony when we got married (because we wanted the focus to be on marriage, not a wedding). He already had a child from a previous relationship, and I was married before. This left our marriage with a high risk of divorce rate. Then, our first-born was born with serious health issues that put us into a very high divorce-rate category for couples (and this all happened 40 weeks after we got married). But, we will be celebrating our 10th wedding anniversary soon, and if I had it to do all over again? I would.
We have a strong marriage despite all of the odds against us. We did live together first and I recommend it to everyone (like the first commenter up at the top there). I think people should see what life is going to be like if they marry, prior to taking the vows. It worked for us, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I can see how some people would rather not marry. Ever. That’s their choice. Each person has to figure out for themselves what they want out of life and go from there. For me? It’s having my husband by my side. =)
ChoJinn
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 10:24 am: [report]
“but it’s also selfish to make your kids endure your tumultuous marriage.”
What is selfish is for two unprepared people to enter into marriage, have children, and then seek to prematurely wash their hands of the arrangement. Tumultuous marriages are products of the husband/wife refusing to put aside whatever differences (or, gasp, attempting to work over them!). The original article doesn’t fret over divorce in the absence of children, but thefrisky sure seems to be doing so.
Why any woman gets married before 25 or any guy before 28 boggles my mind, and these arguments that kids should simply “learn to deal” is just a cop out, and likely purported by those children who had to go through divorce and think themselves better for it (cough) or those people seeking to defend their marital mis-decisions.
“Society has changed and yet, the institution of marriage remains the same…based upon that it is bound to fail.”
No, marriage hasn’t remained the same - it’s the point of the article! And the fact that marriage has changed is a large part of how society has changed. Sure, social scientists can whip up numbers to explain whatever they want, but if you cannot grasp the differences between our generation (Y? I’m 28) and that of our parents, and how that can explain many societal maladies, you need to go back to watching Real Hosuewives.
*sam*
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 10:55 am: [report]
@ChoJinn: “Why any woman gets married before 25 or any guy before 28 boggles my mind”
what boggles **MY** mind is why people like to put age limits on marriage. Age is only a number, what matters is maturity and one’s readiness for a life commitment. I’m 22 and will likely be married before 25, and to hear people tell me that I’m “too young,” “naive,” or whatever, not only hurts, but is *incredibly* infuriating!!! Just b/c *YOU* weren’t ready for marriage before 25 doesn’t mean that I’m not, or anyone else. I can certainly understand arguments against young people getting married due to one’s maturity level or unrealistic expectations of what marriage is or isn’t, but quit with the age limits, PLEASE!! >:[
bellarose
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 11:03 am: [report]
@Sam: I think it is more than an age limit, it is all about being ready for it but all of the young people I know who get married are getting married for the wrong reasons, not to say that you are (when you do get married) but I think ChoJinn is justified in a generalization of the age to get married. I think WE being in our twenties have no idea what changed when we reach our thirties. According to my mom, who was married at 32 and has been happily so for 23 years, she would have never married anyone she dated in her twenties just for the sole reason that she says priorities change, you finally find youself and all of that. Now I don’t get it but I’m looking forward to it…
And also long relationships together don’t always equal a happy marriage. My mom dated a guy from age 24-30 broke up with him met my dad when she was 32, they were engaged after 3 dates, married within six months… everybody is different obviously but I think WE again being in our twenties don’t have a full perspective on our own lives yet.
*sam*
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 11:20 am: [report]
@bellarose: I can understand where your mom is coming from. I don’t know, my family is a little different. My mom married my father when she was (*gasp*) 18, and they’re celebrating their 30th anniversary this month. Maybe it’s because I never had a parent telling me that I’m ‘too young to understand’ that I get so annoyed by those sorts of comments. I totally get that people change over time, and there’s no doubt that my parents haven’t had their fair share of turmoil over the years as they’ve both grown and changed into different people (and raising 3 kids through those awkward teenage years while you’re going through menopause certainly couldn’t have helped much)... but I just think age is too vague.. it’s not unilateral in any sense.. just because you’re not *legally* allowed to drink until 21 doesn’t mean that I haven’t met *plenty* of 25yr-olds (and older) that *still* shouldn’t be allowed to by alcohol…
ChoJinn
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 11:31 am: [report]
@same: http://www.divorcepeers.com/stats38.htm
Slightly antiquated, but the mountain of consistent info at http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/ makes pinpoint citations unnecessary. Sure, everyone is different, and I wish you the best, but these statistics should not leave the back of your head.
bellarose
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:03 pm: [report]
@sam: You’re right. We’re all different. There is a part of me that thinks I will never be ready to get married, yet there is another part of me that feels ready to get married today. It has a lot to do with the family/social/friends you grew up with. Unfortunantly, I have friends who can’t get thier lives together at all. My ex boyfriend is 30, still living at home and we broke up because he was never going to be ready to “commit” or ever “get married” (and probably shouldn’t be allowed to buy alcohol LOL!) I think my problem is I’m surrounded by guys like this (I live with my ex’s two best friends, who are not exactly different from him…) And personally I’m hoping that in the next ten years of my life I can finally meet a guy who is ready to make that commitment because marriage is defiently something I want and a divorce is something I never want. It’s all about making sure you and your guy is ready. And I have a friend whos parents married at the same age as yours and they are still happily together so I know it can happen. I’m wondering if we, (or maybe just me?) are living in a different time…? Are there more uncommitable people out there than there were 30 years ago?
*sam*
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:20 pm: [report]
@bellarose: I hear you!! my last ex, who was 25 when we started dating (and I was a blushing bride-to-be at 18…in my own mind of course) was FAR more immature and un-ready(?? lol) to commit than my current BF, who is ready to commit (and has been for quite some time now) at 26… I think age-limits and time-lines for marriage vary widely across individuals. While ChoJinn brings up some excellent statistics, I just can’t concede that it’s the whole picture. Granted, I pretty much have the same stance on child-rearing as well… I’ve known fantastic teen mothers as well as some pretty shady middle-aged ones…
bellarose
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:31 pm: [report]
@sam: That’s for sure. It’s difficult to figure out who (and when…) is the right person (...and time) to do everything in life… hmmph.
the rebel angel
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:31 pm: [report]
Wow, I could not agree more with the content, or have written this piece better myself.
I am divorced now following a twelve year marriage, having had three ‘live-together-for-more-than-three-years’ realtionships before then. Like the author, I suspend making a judgement about marriage for others, but I personally know of no long term relationships or marriages where I would say that both participatns are happy and/or growing as people. What I have seen and personally experienced of the compromise and ‘death to the self’ that inevitably happens is too big a price to pay for me.
My hope is to find someone that I want to spend a whole lot of time with, but we live separately and function separately and enjoy coming together for companionship, sex and yes, love. I would continue this until it was not satisfying anymore, and then either find someone else, or spend time on my own as I’m doing now.
As for children, I have none, but I help care for the one year old baby of a friend, a male friend, who’s wife left him six months after the birth of the baby when she realized she wasn’t cut out to be a mom for the rest of her life. She had the ring and the commitment and the baby and still she left. Just for context, these are both highly successful professionals with $100,000+ incomes. Hardship is not an issue, but being a single parent is difficult regardless of income level.
Long life single life and the empowerment and freedom to make our own choices.
sarahprotzman
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:35 pm: [report]
It makes me sad that so many children of divorce end up believing most married people are secretly miserable. Do they really, truly think this is the case?
*sam*
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:39 pm: [report]
@bellarose: amen to that!!
the rebel angel
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:48 pm: [report]
I just want to add that I am not the child of divorced parents, so that does not impact my point of view on marriage. My parents were married for 40 years until my mother died followed shortly after by my father. They were ‘content’, but I wouldn’t settle for what they had in their marriage for the sake of tradition or commitment. Again, this is my choice, and I still go to the weddings of friends and toast to their future happiness with sincerity! I think the larger question is to determine what ‘happiness’ is for each individual. I know contentment as I had it in my marriage, but the happiness I feel being single and independent is no match for that contentment . . . not for me . . .
the witching well
wrote on July 16 2009 @ 09:54 am: [report]
When I married, I thought it would be for the rest of my life. My husband was my peer, my lover, and also my pal. He’d been endorsed by my good friend as a great guy she’d known for years, when we met. I had every logical reason to think that we’d be a great marriage together. I thought my husband was so much more mature than other men I’d met who were addicted to acting like immature boys terrified of commitment.
However, time sometimes changes people in ways you can’t predict. And my husband was influenced by other men - his co-workers and friends – as he aged, into becoming a harsher kind of macho-wannabe stranger who I finally understood I didn’t know at all! He acted like he thought I was a jerk, and he acted like his home and our kids were the most boring place on earth for him. He preferred to spend time in bars with his pals and drink.
I have no idea why he changed, but I finally had to understand that things had changed, and the guy that I’d once known was now acting like some new guy who wanted different things in his life, and definitely did not to be saddled with the “burden” of me!
He wouldn’t talk to me or a marriage counselor, but yet, when I finally told him I was leaving, he acted betrayed! And he continues to act like I betrayed him, and for the life of me I will never understand what on earth he thought he was up to? My father never acted like that, or my grandfather. I was clueless. He acted like any help from me was no help at all, and I finally had no choice but to believe him.
I am glad I divorced him, and have NEVER missed the guy I left. However, I DO miss the guy I once married, and I will always wonder where the heck he disappeared to? And why he thought he had to go? However, he’s never come back. The guy I see occasionally, as I drop off or pick up a kid, is still Mr. Dark Sarcastic Metamorphosis who tries to avoid commitment. Which to me is a lot of immature crapola whistling in the dark. Unfortunately, (in my opinion) wasting real years of real time.
I believe that marriages CAN work; I have seen them work when couples drop the act and really commit to each other. But it takes bravery and maturity and staying power to man-up (for both women AND men) and face the realities of life: that we age; that life can be tough; that everyone can get tired; that it isn’t always fair; yeah, that sometimes it’s not incredibly scintillating every moment; and that eventually we will all die. A marriage has to take these real-life things into consideration to survive.
But a lot of our entertainment loves to avoid nitty-gritty reality and flash a lot of silly TV/faddish/stupid nonsense in front of our faces that is not helpful. And I think immature men might make fun of mature male qualities, though I don’t know why men would turn on each other when one of their own starts growing up? Is there something wrong with being faithful, loyal, kind, dependable and good when you’re a husband and a father? Is this seen as somehow “wimping out” to guys?
I have no idea, I’m not a guy. And if guys don’t talk, we’ll never know. I was just so relieved to get a divorce and finally get away from being the butt of all the snotty jokes, and the cause of ALL the problems.
wonder_bread
wrote on July 16 2009 @ 05:34 pm: [report]
monogamy and marriaged worked at one point. no one can really dispute that. it wasn’t until people were tired of having to be responsible and commit to one person for the rest of their lives that things got screwy… of course if your in an abusive realtionship or there is sometype of harm you would leave the relationship but to just leave because you’ve “grown” apart or you want different things is not a good reason. Those types of excuses didn’t stop our parents and grandparents that actually made the effort and put in the work to maintain their marriages. i think people forgot the simple fact that marriage is work not a vacation… and shouldn’t be entered into lightly. i do believe the priest, pastor, whoever says that during the ceremony.
to me it is a cop-out to say we’ve grown apart..marriage is a choice to weather all seasons together whether your “feeling” the person or not… the goal is to LEARN to grow together which is why its important to choose wisely who you commit yourself to. and to say that you want different things is to say that you didn’t plan well enough for your future together to make sure you wanted the same things from the door. yes people change their minds but then compromise is introduced and you work it out…
there are always the exception to the rule such as abuse…or serious harm(stealing money from the marriage for unauthorized spending or cheating) or total refusal to work on the relationship then you may have to move on.but the fluffy excuses like we don’t agree on how to discipline the kids or how to spend the money…even simply on how to compromise and discuss sex… those issues are suppose to at least be bought up before you marry
Marriage would be better off if divorce was a little harder to achieve… unless there was abuse or adultery… i’d send the couple to thearpy and say try a little harder to work it out.you chose this person for better or worse.. well this is worse figure it out… and if then they gave it an honest try and still couldn’t be content they could separate.
people see divorce as empowerment and taking one’s life back and in a way it is. but for everyone of those people there’s a people abusing the priviledge and giving marriage a bad name.. if you can’t or don’t think you can handle them vows don’t make them shack up or be single but don’t drag marriage through the mud.. we are rationalizing humans not primative animals we can control ourselves and commit if we really want to… monogamy is not out-dated its just not convinent anymore for a world that wants an easy way out….for better or worse was put in the vows for a reason. its to be taken seriously. if u marry and he becomes an abusive addict try your best to help but if you can’t leave the relationship for your safety and that goes for anytyoe of abuse in the relationship. But if you simply can’t agree then seek counsoling and compromise thats when the real work starts.. people fight for what they really want.
ThUnDaCaT...2009
wrote on July 16 2009 @ 06:21 pm: [report]
@wonderbread, i think what you wrote is right on point. Marriage is definitely work and if both parties aren’t aware of that prior to getting hitched than the marriage is doomed to fail. Its sad because i think marriage is a wonderful thing and my opinion of it won’t change or be hindered because we live in a society that makes it okay to divorce. The thing about divorce is that people do it for the wrong reasons and because it is so cheap to get one people keep that in the back of their minds when they think about getting married. They are in relationships for say 6 months and believe that they are ready to spend the rest of their life with this person. Now i cant say that there aren’t some 6 month relationships that have gone on to get married and are still married (i kno a couple thats been married for 20 yrs and only dated for 6 months) but they jump into marriage because they kno or think, hey if it doesn’t work i’ll just get a divorce. That is whack to me, and yes it gives marriage a bad name.
I think the other side of it is females who are so excited about a wedding. Not so much wanting to be married and having a husband and all that kind of stuff, no a wedding. A day where they can b the center of attention and all eyes will b on them. I was in a relationship with a female that i wanted to marry because i wanted to take that step with her. She jumped on board and we starting talkin more and more about it, but as time went on i began to realize that all her plans were for the day. Nothing about how we would live of lives, nothing about children and such, discipline and things, nuffin. I realized that she was just in it for the wedding and if i had gone through with it i probably would be gettin divorced and it wouldn’t b on my terms because i wanted a marriage and she just wanted a wedding and a honeymoon, its a whole different game when the honeymoon is over…
My dad once told me this and ever since i have kept it in the back of my mind when it comes to marriage. He said marriage is work, each and everyday, 24/7, and in between u get to take breakfast, lunch, and dinner breaks.i believe marriage is a job, and the harder each member works the better success the two will have, i kno that the lady in my life wants a marriage not too big on the wedding but wants a marriage. I believe very strongly that we will make it, becasue we will put the necessary work in it to make it work. If divorce never existed, the world would be a better place, because people wouldn’t get married as much and the dignity of marriage would holds its place!
PRican
wrote on July 16 2009 @ 09:25 pm: [report]
Personally, I wish my parents divorced. They are incompatible, sleep in separate bedrooms, hardly interact, and my father knows little about who I am as a person.
They stayed together mostly because of their old-fashioned beliefs that marriage is forever and because two incomes were needed to support the family. Sure, they could teach me a thing or two about being committed, but nothing about making a relationship work. They don’t have a relationship, they have an arrangement.
the rebel angel
wrote on July 16 2009 @ 09:46 pm: [report]
While I respect and appreciate all views expressed here, I don’t believe in marriage or monogamy as a life sentence if people don’t want to be together regardless of what their personal reasons are. It is absolutely not my place to judge them or their decisions, and I’m not sure it’s any of our places to judge that. I thought this was the 21st C, not the 1950’s.
I don’t really understand why some people get so upset about divorce. Good for you if you’re so committed to keeping it together—who cares what other people do? I would also ask the question: when did marriage ever have ‘dignity’—I never knew it had any attributes or characteristics of it’s own. I thought it was an agreement that two people made—a contract of sorts. Contracts are neither dignified or undignified. They are simply words. A commitment to do something in return for something else. I will stay with you if you will stay with me. Like all other contracts known to human kind, it gets broken from time to time. So what?
I’m sorry that I can’t get behind all this hand wringing about an antiquated contract that was originally designed to ensure that men were held responsible for the financial well being of their dependents—their wife and children, as women were not capable taking care of themselves, let alone their offspring. The world has changed. I make more money than most of the men I date, and I’ve been ordered to pay spousal support to my ex-husband, although there are no children and he works at a manager level position.
Would I get married again? Are you kidding me???
wonder_bread
wrote on July 17 2009 @ 06:39 am: [report]
i just have to ask are most of the frisky’s reader anti 1950’s because that seems to be the most loath decade. everytime someone votes or likes a little tradition i can always count on someone to make a comment stating or simply reminding us its not the 1950’s. this fact is so over-baked and annoying if that simply is your only outlet for your reasoning.
develange
wrote on July 18 2009 @ 08:15 pm: [report]
how can anyone know what marriage actually entails until you experience it? Even if you have a great, open relationship, have discussed everything, talked about your expectations, it still may not work (or, the people in it may not want to make it work).
People are so complicated, constantly changing their thoughts and behavior. Even if you make that commitment with all your heart, your mind can change down the road. So much can happen that you have no way of preparing yourself for.
This may be all pessimistic of me…as much as I want to believe in marriage, I don’t see how anyone can make such a huge commitment for the future.
Can only take it day by day. While divorce can be terrible, what other way can you (legally) get our of a marriage that doesn’t work?
shawbrooke
wrote on November 11 2009 @ 05:06 pm: [report]
What the stats say is that on average most kids from divorced families do less well than their counterparts whose parents did not divorce, comparing families that are the same on various attributes, such as income, education etc. There are however exceptions to every rule, so some kids, like those from families where a parent abuses physically or abuses drugs or alcohol, are better off not exposed to abuse.
As far as people in marriages being miserable, that is a great exaggeration. Many marriages are happy, while few/none are perfect. Some people are miserable and getting divorced will not make them happier. Divorce can be necessary due to abuse or a spouse who likes being miserable, it can be beneficial to the ex spouse who later marries someone wealthier, and divorce can also be an excuse for not dealing with your problems.
macbythesea
wrote on November 12 2009 @ 12:01 pm: [report]
I was divorced nine years ago after 24 years and I watched many years of very active parental alienation which my ex inflicted on our three kids (all teens at the time). This included telling the kids I never satisfied her sexually, and finally that I had sexually molested each of them since they were babies. I did not respond except to say that it did not occur, hoping that common sense for them would prevail. In an effort to stop the constant barrage of tirades from her, they eventually withdrew from both of us. I have not spoken to one of them for three years now, and the other two for six months.
With that background about the horrific effect a divorce can have on the kids, I am intrigued by a concept mentioned in William Kenly’s upcoming book “The Dogs of Divorce”. It goes something like this:
Japanese divorce culture usually gives full custody to one of the parents and the other parent has no rights after that. Of course it is usually the mother, and the father doesn’t even have visitation rights. When I first heard this, it seemed Draconian. But as I reflected back on the damage to my kids, they may have been better off if I had just gone off-screen until they each turned 18. Then their mother would have had no reason to try to alienate them from me.
As a side note, a friend of mine suggested that any couple going for a divorce should sign an agreement that whichever one loses should be taken out and shot. It would be better on the kids. While that is extreme in the extreme, it makes the point that the kids are the ones that suffer.