What Does “Being A Gentleman” Mean These Days?
Posted by: Jessica Wakeman
Filed in:
guys
11:00AM, Monday July 20th 2009
A few months ago, I accidentally shoved my foot in my mouth on a listserv I participate in. I got a bunch of irritated emails and issued numerous apologies. What did I do? I addressed the women as “ladies.”
Some women hate to be called “ladies,” I came to find out. It’s an outdated word, they said, which brings to mind white gloves, tea sandwiches, and balancing a book atop one’s head for good posture. (Betty Draper on Mad Men, for example.) The directive to “be a lady” or “act like a lady” usually encourages women or girls to become more like a retro gender construct—polite, smiling, quiet, compliant, modest, presentable—and they want nothing to do with it. I just assumed that because the word was so outdated, it meant nothing—and I was wrong.
So now I’m wondering, of course, about a lady’s counterpart. If “being a lady” has a stigma attached to it, does “being a gentleman” have a stigma, too? And what does “being a gentleman” even mean these days, anyway?
“Ladies” and “gentlemen” seem like such retro concepts because the past few waves of feminism have sanded down the suck-y gender roles and taboos about sexuality. However, “acting like a lady” doesn’t matter anymore, but strangely, “acting like a gentleman” still seems important.
I think men still call themselves a “gentlemen” because nearly every woman, if asked, would say she does want to date one. The whole thing is pretty moot, though, because what men define as actually being a gentleman is all over the place. It can mean anything from paying for dinner (or not), to groping a boob (or not), to paying for her cab ride home (or not). Really, man could just not be Joe Francis and still be called a gentleman.
For example, as long as I’ve been dating, I’ve witnessed guys who say they are “a gentleman” only be polite to pretty girls and treat the less attractive women or the men around them terribly. That’s such b.s.—and the reason why “gentleman” doesn’t have any more meaning for me than “lady” does.
But if I had to define it myself, this is what I’d say: A real gentleman is rare and is someone who treats everyone well—not just the chick he’s interested in. A gentleman is polite to everyone, thoughtful to everyone, considerate to everyone. Yes, a gentleman can be chivalrous, but that’s not the only qualification. Gentleman are chivalrous, but not all chivalrous guys are gentlemen. Most of all, if a guy boasts about what a gentleman he is, he probably isn’t one.
Does the phrase “gentleman” have any meaning to you? What do you think a gentleman is?
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CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 11:15 am: [report]
A gentleman is the same as a “Nice guy”. We get this crap all the time.
avalari
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 11:20 am: [report]
I’m still hung up on people getting thier panties in a twist about being called a lady. I’ve never heard of such a thing. At what point does this whole PC thing go overboard? Maybe not every little thing people say has a meaning behind it. Maybe it’s just proper grammar.
peacock
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 11:31 am: [report]
The only people who get upset over being called a “lady” are women who don’t actually know who or what a true lady is.
Naneenya
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 11:48 am: [report]
No one minds being called a lady when it’s “Ladies Night”
Penelope09
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 12:03 pm: [report]
I don’t think I, nor any of my friends, have ever said we wanted “a gentleman.” That word seems just as outdated as the phrase “be a lady.” I think I speak for most of the women I know when I say I just want a guy who sees me as an equal, respects me for who I am, and isn’t afraid to give help when I need it, or ask for it when he does.
william.paul
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 12:14 pm: [report]
With the major exception of compliant, and possibly smiling and quiet (depending on what that means to you), what is wrong with attributing any of those qualities to either a man or a woman? No one likes rude loudmouth braggarts, do they?
You can discuss all you want about what actually defines a gentleman (or a lady), but to me the label has always been ascriptive rather descriptive. I can see how some would not like either label, but to me it’s always been a compliment.
lilrockgoddess4u
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 12:41 pm: [report]
I pride myself on being a lady. There is nothing wrong with a little class, grace, and decorum. At least that’s how I define “lady” or “gentleman” .
Pas Quotidienne
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 12:43 pm: [report]
@Penelope09—that’s how I define a “gentleman”, just a good guy.
Being called a lady is one of the greatest compliments I can give or receive—from somebody who knows what it means (basically, not Tim Meadows a la “The Ladies Man”). To me it indicates a woman who carries herself with class and dignity, two things that are sadly lacking in most of society. By no means, though, does it mean I keep my mouth shut.
Queen Frostine
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 12:52 pm: [report]
I’m with lilrockgoddess4u,
I see them as terms given to people who demonstrate true respect, class and dignity, both for oneself and for others. These things shouldn’t go out of style. Ever.
H. Blue
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 12:57 pm: [report]
I like being called a lady. Just don’t call me ma’am. lol
LayD
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 12:58 pm: [report]
I totally agree with what people put above, a lady is one who has class, grace, and dignity. A lady is someone who is respectful to all, polite, and appropriate (she doesn’t wear cutoffs to a baptism or debate controversial topics with a friend’s grandfather). I don’t think a lady means a submissive, well-groomed, people pleaser. I wasn’t aware that it is oudated. As for gentlemen, I also agree that “A real gentleman is rare and is someone who treats everyone well—not just the chick he’s trying to bone. A gentleman is polite to everyone, thoughtful to everyone, considerate to everyone.” Basically, the same rules apply for a lady as it does for a gentlemen, be independent and genuine and do what you want, but do it with class, be polite and respectful to ALL.
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 01:00 pm: [report]
@BluenBlonde: I’ll call anyone ma’am if they call me ‘sweetie’, ‘cutie’, ‘adorable’.
This happens frequently with servers at restaurants.
raqueleza
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 01:02 pm: [report]
Echoing the sentiments above…what the hell kind of listserv were you on that they would get so upset?
Feel free to call me (and it seems like the rest of the Frisky pop.) ladies any day.
_jsw_
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 01:12 pm: [report]
I agree with Jessica’s definition of “gentleman” (and those of the commenters above). A gentleman is not defined by his actions but by his intent and attitude towards others (which serve to drive his actions). A gentleman treats people based on their intent and attitudes, not on their appearance or status, and therefore will be kinder and more courteous to those who deserve it, not necessarily those who demand it or expect it.
I see no problem with being called a gentleman; I see it as a compliment. I also do not understand why anyone would resent being called a lady. To me, it doesn’t imply subservient behavior. It implies mature and decent behavior.
retro chic
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 01:42 pm: [report]
I think whatever tags we put on each gender, men’s will be the most benign, well-received and least restricting. [generally speaking]
sadie
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 01:43 pm: [report]
agree with @LayD. The same rules for men and women apply. When I think of someone who is acting like a lady or gentleman (rather than a jerk or a child or what-have-you) I think of a person who is polite, appropriate, respectful, and considerate. I think these are good qualities to aspire to regardless of gender.
Jacqueline
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 03:30 pm: [report]
I’ve always thought being called a lady was a compliment…
Technically a gentleman is a man who is wealthy enough that he doesn’t have to work for a living, but most perceive it as a man who is well mannered and chivalrous. I don’t think the term is out dated and anyone who is insulted at being called a lady or gentleman probably doesn’t actually deserve to be called a lady/gentleman.
amy1285
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 05:54 pm: [report]
I adore the term “ladies,” especially when I’m addressing my girlfriends, like sending them e-mails where the subject line reads, “Time to get organized ladies.”
Also, a gentleman is a guy who will take you out for breakfast the next morning. Preferably Denny’s.
_jsw_
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 06:03 pm: [report]
@amy1285: A gentleman is a guy who will make you breakfast the next day.
David Lifson
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 07:13 pm: [report]
@_jsw_ I, in fact, LOVE making breakfast the next day. I make a great Gran Marnier french toast.
To be honest, I am only attracted to women who conduct themselves with a certain level of manners and class. Yes, “ladies”. Frankly, I support your right to be uncouth and have poor personal hygiene, but I won’t be recommending you to my closest single guy friend.
I actually think that being a “gentleman” (w.r.t. heterosexual relationships) means saying and doing things that delight and surprise. Basically, anything you do that makes the other person feel special, respected, admired, loved, etc. For example, bringing flowers, cooking dinner, leaving a love letter on a pillow, and holding open a door. Or, a surprise weekend getaway vacation.
Let’s not forget that the term can also apply to men when relating to men. This goes back to concepts like honor, trust, respect, and honesty; you don’t “take advantage”, “kick someone when they’re down”, or cheat/lie.
_jsw_
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 07:18 pm: [report]
@David Lifson: Agreed! I’d add that those “delight and surprise” items you mentioned are even better when they come completely out of the blue (as I suspect you meant anyway).
retro chic
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 09:13 pm: [report]
@jsw: so true!
@David: Mmmm. Gran Marnier french toast. The rest? Good character virtues – not just manners – becoming more a thing of the past. You’re of a dying breed. Good point about fair play among men, too.
*sam*
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 09:34 pm: [report]
...I wasn’t aware being called a “lady” was anything other than a compliment.
Perhaps it has something to do with what part of the country you’re from??? I’ve lived in the south my whole life, so the terms ‘lady’ and ‘gentlemen’ are still used quite frequently. (as are ‘yes/no ma’am/sir’)... I was just always brought up to refer to people that show a little class as a lady/gentlemen, and that I should strive to be considered in the same light.—not that I needed to do so by being subservient in any way, but by being polite and acting in accordance with social norms when appropriate and when it doesn’t conflict with my personal beliefs/morals.
As for what being a gentleman means in this day and age, I agree with Jessica (and most of what everyone above has said), that a gentleman is someone who respects others, regardless of who they are. While chivalry is nice, some aspects (in my humble opinion anyway) are outdated and can easily come across as sexist (i.e., ordering food for me if we haven’t discussed it prior, or being sure to use euphemisms or sugar-coat the truth for fear of ‘upsetting’ me—it sends me the message that you don’t think I am strong enough to handle the truth)... but all in all, chivalry is good manners, and something that I think a gentleman possess.
MsLiberal
wrote on July 20 2009 @ 09:37 pm: [report]
“Most of all, if a guy boasts about what a gentleman he is, he probably isn’t one.”
YEP. Last guy I dated liked to talk about how sweet he was, etc. He was NOT very nice at all…which was a tragedy, because he was gorgeous…
And guy friend once told me that there was a difference between a good guy and a nice guy. You can be a nice guy and still be a crappy person. Or, you can be a good guy deep down and be a dick on the surface. The trick is to find one who is both…i.e. a gentleman.
MichelleS1017
wrote on July 21 2009 @ 05:21 pm: [report]
sounds like these “ladies” just want something to complain about… maybe they prefer to called b**ches
ksdancer
wrote on July 21 2009 @ 06:11 pm: [report]
Being a gentleman means you were taught manners and use them every day for EVERYONE.
spatula
wrote on November 10 2009 @ 10:45 am: [report]
@cheese: it’s your own fault for being so adorable.
I just think this is so petty and STUPID. I can think of a lot worse things than ‘lady’ to call a bunch of oversensitive women.
Yodar Critch
wrote on November 10 2009 @ 11:02 am: [report]
Jacqueline,
The quality of being a gentleman has little to do with money but more on how the man treats people.
A gentleman not only shows respect to others (regardless of social level) but truly respects them.
A gentleman also does not call attention to his “gentlemanlyness” nor does he insist on demonstrating being a gentleman.
Being a gentleman is less about actions and more on intent. It is easy to act like a gentleman, much harder to be a gentleman.
It is probably the same for a lady.
Steven
wrote on November 10 2009 @ 12:40 pm: [report]
I always heard the phrase but never quite knew what it really meant. These are the things that I enjoy doing when I am out with a woman (friend or date).
Have a real conservation (two sided).
Always open the door and allow the woman to enter first. I get funny looks from women about this one.
Always say thank you to everyone, including the waiter and waitress. And if the staff is going out their way to make sure that you and your date is taken care, give the compliment to the manager that is on duty.
Listen!!!
Be willing to negotiate who pays. Another words if you are going to dinner and the movies and she offer to pay, suggest that you will pay for the meal if she will buy the tickets to the movie. Or vice a verse.
Another words, remember what we learn in Kindergarden. The rules still apply.
DancingGeek
wrote on November 10 2009 @ 07:59 pm: [report]
<sigh> someone to make me breakfast- that would be lovely.
I adore men who are gentelmen and I love being referred to as a lady and being treated like one.
persephone41
wrote on November 11 2009 @ 11:50 am: [report]
i find it odd also that women would not want to be called ladies. i think it has the same meaning as you are ascribing to men being gentlemen. you are a stand up person, to everyone - the distinction being that there are certain feminine and masculine traits that make one a lady or a gentleman. for a woman that could be sitting properly when wearing a skirt; for a man it could be giving his seat to a pregnant woman, or offering to help carry heavy things. i think that men and women alike should strive to be good people, with manners, and grace. though the feminist movement has changed our thinking about many traditional views, one cannot deny that there are differences between being a lady and a gentleman that come from gender.
ootie grl
wrote on November 11 2009 @ 02:16 pm: [report]
I didnt know being called a lady was bad. There way worse things to be called than lady
majicksand
wrote on November 11 2009 @ 02:37 pm: [report]
I could choose any word in the English language and find a reason to object to it if I tried hard enough. I rather enjoy being a lady, and I only ‘keep my mouth shut’ when it would be rude and disrespectful to do otherwise. Fem-nazis give true feminists a bad name. Any of you other ladies care to second that?
TheUberWop
wrote on November 11 2009 @ 06:41 pm: [report]
So let me get this straight, being a lady is a bad thing, and a gentleman HAS TO be nice and polite to EVERYONE?
Were you dropped on your head a few too many times as an infant?
In this day and age of self absorbed brats, a GENTLEMAN, like myself, is only interested in dating or interacting with LADIES. Ladies, unfortunately, are few and far between. Seems like women these days act practically as neanderthal as most men do. You dress like whores and then wonder why men catcall and act inappropriately towards you. You want equality and independence, but want men to be chivalrous at the same time. Sorry - it just doesn’t work like that. If you want to be equal, then maybe you women need to learn how to be chivalrous towards us men. Buy US dinner. Take US out. Buy US expensive jewelry and accouterments. If you think just have a vagina somehow makes you worthy of being put upon a pedestal, you’re sorely mistaken. Ladies don’t act like they’re entitled to everything. Ladies know how to communicate openly. Ladies know the meaning of common courtesy, and do NOT act like spoiled little princesses.
And this notion of Gentleman having to be nice and polite to everyone is just BS. That’s called “being a doormat”. Not everyone deserves to be treated politely or courteously. Some folks in fact, deserve a nice fat slice of reality pie served to them from time to time - and if that includes not being treated with politeness and courtesy, well that’s just too damn bad.
We’re fast becoming a society of people who don’t know how to openly and honestly communicate with each other. We worship at the altar of “Reality”, while we live in a fantasy world. We actually encourage people to be spoiled and self centered, as if it’s a good quality. (Have you SEEN any of the “sweet 16” shows on MTV????)
Maybe more women would like being called “ladies” if they actually ACTED like one and were treated the way a lady SHOULD be treated. With respect, and gentleness, and dignity. Not like some little street trollop - a la Paris Hilton.
majicksand
wrote on November 12 2009 @ 11:07 am: [report]
@theuberwop:
Actually, sometimes it does. My husband is comfortable and confident enough to acknowledge the aspects of our life (home and business) where I am more suited to take the lead. I do the same. I don’t want to be his equal. I am his equal.
That being said, my husband enjoys spoiling me rotten. I’m not just a princess, I am an empress. Yes, I do things for him too, and he tells me regularly that I am the perfect woman. I’m not even close, and I know I’m getting the better end of this deal, but as long as we’re both happy I don’t see how it matters.
I am a true lady just as he is a true gentleman. We are both capable, confident, independent, honest and kind to friends, strangers, and each other. We know how to stand up for ourselves, but we know when it’s appropriate to concede for the greater good. We are far from perfect, but we do our best everyday.
EastCoastMale
wrote on November 12 2009 @ 11:16 am: [report]
I have had several women flip out who I called ma’am, because I did not know them and it was in situations that I thought called for it. If you are going to flip out about being called ma’am then fine, I will just use superbit*h instead =)
EastCoastMale
wrote on November 12 2009 @ 11:21 am: [report]
I would have to agree with the uberwop that the concept of chivalry or equality definitely gets taken advantage of in some situations. Not to start a big ruckus but I am sure that if you are being treated so well and admittedly receiving the better end of the deal, I am sure there wouldn’t be a problem with it and I think that is partly the point being made here.
majicksand
wrote on November 14 2009 @ 10:57 am: [report]
@ecm: I say I’m getting the better end of the deal, but, if you ask him, which I have, he will tell you that he is. I get more everyday niceties like backrubs, but he gets his toys. So far I have juggled enough money for 6 nice guitars and his dream car among other things. I even got a cheaper engagement ring to make it happen and waited until a month after we got married for that. My husband treats me very, very well. As a result, I am willing to go above and beyond to make him happy too.
I objected to uberwop’s assertion that women cannot be independent and expect to be treated like a lady at the same time. I am, I can, and I do.
Terry1970
wrote on December 28 2009 @ 11:10 am: [report]
I am reading an Amazon book ‘You Can Still Be A Gentleman! AND Have Better Realtionships with Women’. I have found it extremely insightful.
In it the author says this about being a gentleman: “Being a gentleman is a lifestyle of choice. It is your choice to do the right things, for the right reasons, at the right times. It is never used to manipulate—it is not an act—it is not a ploy. You choose how to act, what to do, and how to react.”
To the question Do women want gentleman in their lives? - he states: “Many women these days are very ambitious, accomplished,and outspoken. Even the most enlightened of modern women, with one or two exceptions in every group, still long for the days when men “acted like gentlemen.”
I think it is important to make sure she knows your gentlemanly behavior is a show of respect for who she is and the value you place on your relationship.