Today’s Lady News: 6 Bodies Found At Cleveland Rapist’s Home

lea322
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 05:49 pm: [report]

Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t really care about the minutiae of Australia’s abortion consent forms. Why does the “Lady News” section seem to revolve around this issue? I get that abortion is a “women’s issue”, but maybe reports about it could be limited to ones that seem to actually be more newsworthy? Or, if the writer feels they are newsworthy (which she must, if she’s taken the time to write it down), maybe she could explain why that is.

Or maybe I’m alone in this and everyone else is very concerned that a legal document says someone may want to consider consulting a lawyer, and that there may be long-term effects from the procedure, which seems like fairly standard stuff to me.

BrokenBrain
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 05:52 pm: [report]

After the campaign began in April 2008, there has been a 40 increase for incidents of sexual assault and battery.

Should that be decrease?

wonder_bread
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 06:07 pm: [report]

its sad that the 11 year old had a baby thats sick but i think parents should be in the know if their daughters are having abortions under the age of 18. they arent legal adults. they dont get to have that type of privacy living in someone else’s house. they shouldnt’ be having sex anyhow especially if they cant even properly use birth control. the only exception is sexual abuse/rape. which is unfortunate.

Perceptible
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 06:15 pm: [report]

@wonder_bread, I agree completely.

kr070707
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 06:24 pm: [report]

@wonder_bread: I tend to agree that minors are minors and should be treated as such, but I wonder how many of these girls will be kicked out of the house, ostracized or go through other types of trauma because their parents find out they had an abortion. Hopefully a small percentage. I wish the money that is going to be used upholding this new law would instead be put towards educating teens AND their parents about safe sex as well as the physical and psycological after effects of abortion. I would think that a lot of parents would benefit from some kind of program to help them help their children through this difficult time.

Also, any new laws regarding notification to the parents of the boys that get the girls pregnant? Don’t think so…

tabby
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 06:25 pm: [report]

How does an 11 year old have a 19 year old Boyfriend/Husband?!?!?! That sounds like child molestation/rape to me and why would the parents want her to marry someone like that?! I wish I could give that poor girl a hug and tell her the world isn’t as completely f-ed up as it seems.

C.Munro
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 06:26 pm: [report]

@wonder_bread:  I disagree.  I think parental notification is a bad idea.  The way the Illinois statute is written is likely to lead to delayed abortions, false accusations of sexual assault, and more unwanted children being born, all of which are bad for everybody. 

And just what does the law aim to accomplish in return?  Since the parents won’t have any power to stop the procedure, all it seems to do is give parents an opportunity to scold their daughters for behavior that is both perfectly natural and unlikely to change.  It is a stupid and senseless law that serves only to satisfy the self-righteous urges of sanctimonious busybodies to control the lives of others based on their own archaic beliefs.

wonder_bread
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 06:36 pm: [report]

@kr070707- they can notify the boy’s parents as well but that wasnt the topic so i didn’t addresse it. These girls shouldnt be having sex until they are able to be mature and repsonsible about it at least able to come up with a better plan than just aborting it. I think as a parent the child wouldnt be the only one needing some conselling (sp) if i found out my 14 year old daughter was having an abortion because she and her 15 year old b/f had sex and got preggers. that would be hard on me as well. no body wants that for their kid.

@ C.Munro sorry but my 11,12,13,14,15,16,even,17 year old daughter/son should not be able to have an ABORTION without my premission or at the very least knowledge. we aren’t talking about buying condoms or birth control. we are talking about a surgical percedure that could scar her womb and possibly make her sterile if done correctly not to even mention the risk her mental scaring from such an ordeal.i cant speak for most parents but i’d want to be their for my daughter whatever age and i’d want to know. i have the right to know until she/he 18 a legal adult. I say son because he is just as repsonsible and will probably have a say/opinion about what may happen as small as it may be and he shouldnt be allowed a get out of resposibility free card just because the baby is in his partner’s body

writergirl
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 06:37 pm: [report]

Well, here’s the thing.  A minor is a minor until s/he is 18. When I was under 18, my regular doctor wasn’t allowed to prescribe/perform any procedure on me unless my mother consented to it.  I could not say, as the patient, “Go ahead” or “No, don’t.”  It wasn’t my choice.

And while I realize that abortions carry long-term reprocussions should the parents find out—the bottom line is an abortion is a medical procedure.  So unless they make all medical procedures under the 18 non-parental consent, then parents should have the right to at least know about their daughter obtaining one cases or rape/incest not withstanding.

wonder_bread
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 06:39 pm: [report]

*incorrectly

thetopmobileman
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 03:56 am: [report]

OMG! Really?

nyack
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 04:32 am: [report]

I’ve read the stories about the Bulgarian 11-year old who gave birth recently. She is a part of a group in Bulgaria that is notorious for giving birth at that age with the intent of collecting wellfare checks. The government pays a small amount of money to the mother every month and for every child until they are 18. This case is not unique. The typical “family” from that group has at least 5-6 children without actually considering the consequences of bringing up a child. It is not an actual rape. They do it for the money. It’s a very sad situation. While this girl, in my opinion, is in no position to understand what she is actually doing, this behavior is something she considers normal and customary. Her mother has done it, her sisters, her aunts, cousins, they have all done the same thing. They simply do not believe in birth control because after each birth, they start receiving a check.

spatula
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 08:20 am: [report]

@writergirl-EXACTLY. An abortion is considered a surgery, and there’s no way anyone would say that someone under 17 should be able to have any other type of surgery without parental notification-let alone consent or permission-so why should it be okay because it’s an abortion?

Riley
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 08:30 am: [report]

An 11-year-old Bulgarian girl gave birth on the day of her wedding to her 19-year-old boyfriend, who now faces jail time.

So she gave birth to a jailbound 19-year-old baby?

spatula
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 08:33 am: [report]

@riley: ZOMG

Riley
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 08:34 am: [report]

@Spatula - GG

hlnbabe
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 09:23 am: [report]

i hate the fluctuation of people’s logic.

children are children, the parents should be informed.
i bet if a 14 year old killed another classmate maliciously that same person would say they should be charged as an adult.

i’m a believer in child’s rights, but i’m not hypocrit and if a kid wants to do adult things they get the repercussions too.

hlnbabe
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 09:26 am: [report]

*children are children, the parents should be informed - not my opinion, just a restatement.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 09:30 am: [report]

people concerned that parents will scold or punish their underaged daughters having sex…  well underage girls having sex should be scolded and punished.  especially if theyre stupid enough to get themsevles in an unwanted pregnancy situation. 

nancy pelosi is a moron.

C.Munro
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 10:05 am: [report]

well underage girls having sex should be scolded and punished.

That’s a load of crap.  Human beings reach sexual maturity much at a much younger age than that which our society deems acceptable for sexual behavior.  I admire someone who can hold out until 16 or so, as it takes significant effort to go against the urges nature programmed into us, especially when it’s just to please a culture as idiotic as ours. 

And I do think parental consent laws for certain medical procedures should be repealed, because sometimes they needlessly delay necessary operations.
My father almost lost the tip of his finger as a minor because of these stupid consent requirements. 

And Republicans can suck it, Macho.

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 10:35 am: [report]

@C.Munro:

I admire someone who can hold out until 16 or so, as it takes significant effort to go against the urges nature programmed into us

Please. People are not mindless sex-crazed beasts who can’t say no to their urges. We expect people to have self-control in pretty much every other area of their life, and having sex should be a part of that. Especially since sex can lead to pregnancy. So how about we tell teens that while they are going to experience biological cravings that are totally normal, they also have the ability to wait until they are more mentally and emotionally mature so that they can deal with all the immediate and possible repercussions of sex.

C.Munro
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 10:41 am: [report]

Self control is one thing.  Complete abstinence until the age of 18 goes far beyond simply asking people to exercise self control.  It is supremely unrealistic. 

Frankly, it doesn’t matter what people tell teens.  They’re going to do what they want to do anyway. 

If none of you were sexually active before you were allowed to vote, you’re excused.  Otherwise, this self-control argument is hypocrisy.

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 10:50 am: [report]

1. I didn’t say complete abstinence, I said waiting until they were more ready to handle sex and it’s possible outcomes, which I think most people would agree is older than 16, or else we wouldn’t care about teen pregnancy.

2. The reason it doesn’t matter what we tell teens is because we have the attitude that they won’t listen. They do. And that’s why teens need mentors and role models.

3. I am excused.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:04 am: [report]

kids have sex.  parents punish bad behavior.  how is this confusing?  its the parents job to discipline their children, and if ur a kid, sometimes being grounded is worth it…  like in this case, i imagine.  you should still face consequences for making decisions like these. 

and republicans can suck it.  proudly voted obama, will do so again in 2012 as far as i can tell, and nancy pelosi is still a moron.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:05 am: [report]

“Frankly, it doesn’t matter what people tell teens.  They’re going to do what they want to do anyway.”

so parents shouldnt tell teens what to do?  parent of the year quote, right there.

C.Munro
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:12 am: [report]

so parents shouldnt tell teens what to do?  parent of the year quote, right there.

Nope.  All they can do is raise them with the best possible example that they can provide, and hope that it instills their kids with values similar to their own. 

I remember being a teenager.  I also remember that the friends with the strictest parents were the ones who got into the most trouble, be it with sex, drugs or the law.  I remember that the more threatening a girl’s father was to me, the more likely she was to put out. 

I don’t think parents should let their kids run wild.  But I do think that once the kids are teenagers, their behavior patterns are already pretty well set, and at that point parental input becomes much less influential on their choices.  It doesn’t mean people shouldn’t try, of course, but those efforts should be constructive.  And I simply don’t see how parental notification is at all constructive.

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:12 am: [report]

There is a reason teens aren’t considered adults: they still need guidance. They still need someone to give them boundaries. Of course, they still make their own decisions, but they should also be aware of the consequences, good or bad, of those decisions.

C.Munro
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:14 am: [report]

they should also be aware of the consequences, good or bad, of those decisions.

On this, I agree completely.

NaomiK
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:27 am: [report]

I was a virgin until I was 18. I think in this whole pro this and that argument, we either argue that you’re killing a baby or you have a free pass to do whatever the hell you want to. Abortion is serious, it’s a surgery that can lead to complication (both physical and psychological) like the other posters have said. Teens don’t need abortion, they need BIRTH CONTROL if they’re going to have sex.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:34 am: [report]

Were I unable to obtain an abortion at 17 without my parents consent, I am quite sure that I would have spontaneously aborted once my mother beat the baby out of my body.  If they were mature enough to have sex because theor parents failed to discuss safe sex with them, then they can go ahead with a legal safe procedure performed at a proper clinic.  If parents have open dialogue about sex with their children this wouldnt be an issue because there would be no unwanted teen prengancy but that isnt the point.  This is going to cause drama, and back room abortions that will scar, and kill many young women.

Arsenic
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:45 am: [report]

In an ideal world, yes, the parent should be notified. But we aren’t talking about a stern talking to as the worst case scenario- we’re talking about girls being beaten or disowned simply for having sex, not to mention having an abortion. And yes, no matter what you want to think, teenagers as young as 13 are having sex. Period. All you can do is make the information and services as available as possible- and that means making sure girls aren’t shamed or scared to get the help they need. Yes, I’m sure there are girls out there that would benefit from their guardians knowing, but we can’t legislate just for them.

AlisonNoelle
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:46 am: [report]

Hm. After scrolling through all the previous comments this is what I have come up with. I was sexually active before I was 18. My parents were religious and STRICT. Thank god for good sex education because I never got pregnant. If I had had to tell my parents I was pregnant….. I shudder. But I digress. What it all comes down to here is this. Parents have a RIGHT to know what is going on with there children, whether its school or an abortion. Its a serious procedure that COULD cause damage in the long run. As a mom myself I would never want my child to go through something like that by herself. But since so far I only have boyos I don’t have to worry about that so much. Hopefully the talks that have with my sons will be enough. Safe sex, respect, etc. If one of my sons ever got a girl pregnant as a teen ager he had damned well be ready to step up to the plate no matter what happens.

I wonder though…. How come it is only the girls parents that will be required to be notified. The last I heard it takes two to tango.

Jayde30
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:48 am: [report]

C.Munro—come ON. We aren’t animals. We have the ability as humans to sort through poor choices to arrive at the right one. We don’t walk around having sex with anything that moves because we “can’t help it”. Your comment made me laugh, because from the sounds of it, my 7 year old dog lives a more discerning lifestyle than the way you pictured teenagers.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:58 am: [report]

parents beat kids for everything.  its their choice as parents.  my mom would whip my ass for skipping class.  the school still has a responsibility to tell her i cut, so she could parent me.  what about the decent parents who would start educating their kid on safe sex?  or the ones who would go to the appointment with their daughters and hold their hands through the procedure?  it isnt the doctor or the judges job to parent these kids.  for better or worse, its the parents.

now if you want to talk about mandatory licensing for the right to have a kid, im all ears…

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:05 pm: [report]

MuchoMacho makes a good point. Even kids who think their parents will severely punish them may be surprised. It isn’t the majority of parents who abuse their children.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:06 pm: [report]

Voters in Maine will decide tomorrow whether to repeal a law allowing medical marijuana.

FTFY.

lawyrgrl
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:06 pm: [report]

Parental notification is a recipe for trauma - both mental and physical.  Of course most people would want to know that their child is having an abortion.  The problem is that many parents will make an already difficult situation far worse with their reactions.  I applaud the courage of a young woman to recognize that she is not able to bear/raise a child and to resolve the issue by terminating the pregnancy.  She is making, in my opinion, a choice that will allow her to obtain an education and have a higher standard of living than what she would have as a very young mother.  Bringing in people that she wanted to exclude, regardless of their family connection, only hinders her efforts.

If her parents were people that she wanted by her side in a time of crisis, she would not have to be forced by law to tell them.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:14 pm: [report]

@Mucho:  With respect sir, until you have a uterus and have been a beaten teenage girl who ends up accidentally pregnant you really should get off that high horse of yours. 

This legislation is one step closer to outlawing abortions.  Also please do not be so naive as to think that this will not create a “back room dirty” abortion industry in Illinois.  I agree if a 14 year old is pregnant from a boyfriend something is wrong and maybe an advocate should be appointed for that child to speak to about the situation and to determine if there should be notification but that will only delay the ultimate process.  But if you have to set limits on it then make it coincide with the states regulations on age of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#United_States.

Here are the specifics on Illinois:

Illinois
The age of consent in Illinois is 17. It is also illegal for a person to commit sexual acts on a person under the age of 18 if he/she has a position of authority or trust over the victim.

(720 ILCS 5/12-15) Sec. 12-15. Criminal sexual abuse. ...(c) The accused commits criminal sexual abuse if he or she commits an act of sexual penetration or sexual conduct with a victim who was at least 13 years of age but under 17 years of age and the accused was less than 5 years older than the victim.

Sec. 12-16. Aggravated Criminal Sexual Abuse. ...(d) The accused commits aggravated criminal sexual abuse if he or she commits an act of sexual penetration or sexual conduct with a victim who was at least 13 years of age but under 17 years of age and the accused was at least 5 years older than the victim.

So if it meets this criteria then we should see lots of jailed men in Illinois as well because they are all violating the law.

Frederica Bimble
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:15 pm: [report]

MuchMacho:  It isn’t a parent’s “choice” to beat their kids.  It is called assault but because there are so many people like you - those who take no responsibility for THEMSELVES and their actions - who think it is ok to lose control of themselves and hit another human being just because they are “parents.” 
There is a difference between being an adult and being a child or a teenager and any adult who cannot conduct themselves in a manner that creates a sense of discipline within their child without resorting to violence needs to do some serious looking within.  There is NEVER a reason to hit your child. 
As soon as you resort to violence with your child, you have lost their respect.  If you don’t believe those words then just look at yourself.  You cannot see the logic in behaving reasonably rather than violently.
I suppose it is perfectly acceptable for you to hit an adult who doesn’t behave the way YOU want them to, eh?
And….just because your parents “whip your ass” for everything doesn’t make them good parents and it certainly doesn’t make it right, sensible, logical or reasonable. 
You cannot teach your children self-respect if you don’t respect yourself.

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:23 pm: [report]

Can I just ask why we are assuming that the majority of parents are completely ignorant and incapable of having any compassion toward their children?

joyy
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:26 pm: [report]

@lea322 - because that’s the sad reality for many kids, despite how wrong and preventable it is.  Basing policy on the idea that all parents are compassionate and competent instead of on the idea that if someone needs help they should have safe, private access to it ends with a lot of people getting hurt or just not getting the help they need.

bumbler
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:28 pm: [report]

In my humble opinion it’s nice to think that all parents will take the news well and get their child into counseling, support the child’s decision about terminating the pregnancy etc.  Unfortunately that is not always the case.  Arsenic is right that it’s naive to assume that kids won’t face physical abuse, abandonment and being forced to carry a child to term because of these laws.  At the same time I see parents’ point of view that they should know.  The only middle ground I could possibly see is to have the parents (both the boy’s and girl’s) told with a mediator who thoroughly discusses the girl’s legal options with her and assesses the situation to see if there is a threat of physical violence.  There would have to be follow-up visits as well as resources available to remove girls from abusive homes and provide homes to girls who are kicked out because of their situation.  Also possibly talk therapy to help the girl make a decision based on what’s best for her instead of what her parents want.  It would be such a long drawn out not to mention expensive process I don’t see how it would ever pass so until this option is available I would have to say the parental notification laws are too dangerous to let stand.

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:32 pm: [report]

@joyy: I guess I’d just like to see some statistics that support that position. In my own experience, abuse has not been the norm, even in situations like teen pregnancy. I’m in no way denying that it happens, and that it’s a tragedy when it does, but unless that is the typical response from most parents, I’d like parents to be allowed to at least be notified of a life-changing surgery that their child is participating in.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:40 pm: [report]

@Fredrica - im not a child beater.  i dont have children.  “people like me”?  did i advocate beating children?  no.  i advocated parents being the parents.  our society has decided that people under 18 are “kids”, and not compentent to make their own decisions, for the most part.  i think parents should be involved.

@equn - get off YOUR high horse.  dads get to make decisions and parent their teenage daughters too, despite lacking vaginas and wombs…

joyy
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:44 pm: [report]

@lea322 - I think we may be thinking of different things with the terms ‘hurt’ and ‘abuse.’  And as for statistics, I would be more inclined to look for teen pregnancy rates and, if possible, ER intakes related to botched/illegal abortions in places where these laws are enacted as an indicator more than abuse since most abuse goes unreported and forms of abuse (physical, emotional, mental, etc) vary wildly.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:46 pm: [report]

Spanking =/= beating, spanking can be used as punishment beatings are abuse.  Being choked out on the living room floor, heads smashed into solid oak doors, being kicked down a flight of stairs and being called a “F ucking Little C*nt” from the time you were 12 is abuse.  Plain and simple, had there been a mandatory notification law I would have been one more girl who hid her pregnancy got no prenatal care, maybe had a healthy child in the middle of Christmas dinner when everyone just thought I was packing on the freshman 15.  Then the trauma of either being thrown out by my mother OR being forced to give a child I carried and felt grow inside me up for adoption would have been way more traumatic than the DnC I received.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:49 pm: [report]

i agree with your abuse examples, and feel horrible that situations like that occur.  BUT.  they are the minority.  a parent beating their child like that should have been reported.  #&@$% parents shouldnt be parents.  but the majority of kids arent responsible enough to make a decision like that on their own.  this law isnt even about not letting them have an abortion (which i support, if you care).  its getting the parents or guardians involved.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:49 pm: [report]

@Mucho again until you know you are really pulling at straws here.  Maybe you are a good compassionate parent, many of us did not and do not have that luxury.  So rather than paint everyone with a wide brush as you are consider what you may not EVER be able to know about this decision and try being a compassionate human being

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:50 pm: [report]

@joyy: It’s very possible that we have different things in mind (oh, the woes of online communication!). This is clearly not a black and white situation, and a girl finding herself in this situation needs to be supported in every way possible. I love bumbler’s idea about mediation and family therapy, although I understand that our money-focused society would probably never go for that on the scale that it would need to be to be effective.

I do still maintain that most parents would handle this situation acceptably, but we can agree to disagree on that.

C.Munro
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:51 pm: [report]

I guess I’d just like to see some statistics that support that position. In my own experience, abuse has not been the norm, even in situations like teen pregnancy.

I can’t resist asking what an acceptable number of abused children (as a result of this) would be.  Ten percent?  Five percent?  If only 20,000 teenage girls a year, a statistically small number to be sure, suffer abuse as a result of notification laws, does that make it OK?  Is their suffering necessary to serve the greater good of parents knowing things about their children that they haven’t the legal authority to change? 

Personally, I agree with this:

If her parents were people that she wanted by her side in a time of crisis, she would not have to be forced by law to tell them.

If her parents have earned her trust, they will most likely know about it.  If not, there is probably good reason for it.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:54 pm: [report]

dude.  im not a parent.  im 27.  im not some a-hole republican jag-bag who is insensitive to bad situations (no offense to republicans…  well some offense).  any child abuse case is sad, and i would hope someone would notice and get kids out of that family or house.  i understand it doesnt always happen, but i bet if a 15 yr old girl went before a judge and said “please dont tell my mom or dad.  theyll kick me down the stairs and call me a f’ing c’unt” that the judge would step in and remove the kid.  maybe put the parents in jail where they belong. 

but for every case like that theres gonna be some 15 yr old who doesnt want to get grounded…  or have her car taken away…  or “DEAL” with the repricussions from her parents.  parents should know whats going on with their kids, IN MY OPINION.  im not sitting in front of abortion clinics on a loudspeaker telling people to believe in my god.  i hate them.  i just think parents should be involved.  and to the a-hole who tried to say im the kind of person who doesnt take responsibility for my own actions…  f you.  nothing i said insinuated that.  grow up.

EastCoastMale
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 12:59 pm: [report]

I think there should be parental notification not necessarily consent to have an abortion. Also, someone mentioned a child killing another child, I am all for charging them as an adult depending on the circumstances, not solely excluding it based on their age.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:01 pm: [report]

I understand your stand point as a caring parent, I really do.  Nothing damaged me more than the fact that it was my step-father ( the most wonderful person on the face of the earth) who found out about my abortion first.  The pain on his face that he somehow failed me by making it so I couldn’t come to him due to his “full disclosure” agreement with my mother, was something I will NEVER forget. 

My point is that many girls who are sexually active and unsafe at a young age, are so, because of issues they experience at home.  So this will apply to many, many girls.  If the contact is forced there will be girls dying to back room abortions or being mutilated by some quack because they wont tell the parents and THAT is more dangerous than a clinical procedure done by a real doctor without parental consent.

Please excuse my passion on this but as you can see I have “been there, done that” on this one.

@CheeeeEEEEse: 2010 will be the year they fully legalize it in CA you can bet on it.  I will lose supplemental income but I will gain peace of mind.  There is a saying “As California goes, so does the nation”  Once the remainder of the states see the revenue it generates we will be rid of this pesky little law altogether.  And yes, I am a legal medical marijuana user who sells my excess.

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:03 pm: [report]

@C.Munro: Obviously, I don’t want ANY children to be abused. What I’m trying to compare is isolated incidents versus a normal reaction. Good parents shouldn’t lose the right to parent their children because some bad parents don’t know how to. I’m hoping that most parents have earned the trust of their children. Choosing to have an abortion out of fear of parental reaction is NOT a good reason to have an abortion. It’s possible that a girl may be mistaken about the reaction her parents will actually have.

Parents don’t suddenly become abusers when they find out their daughter is pregnant. Abuse is an issue above and beyond this particular topic.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:04 pm: [report]

@ mucho if tyou are not a parent then where do you get off?  You have no clue and I believe it is you sir, who needs to grow up.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:07 pm: [report]

agree to disagree, with compassion, if that makes sense.

medical MJ - all for it.  legalize it altogether.  booze is more dangerous anyway.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:11 pm: [report]

@equn - so if i dont have kids, i dont have an opinion?

and my statement about growing up was to someone else.  if you look at what i wrote, and what it was in refrence to youll either agree with me, or maybe be able to explain where she got her opinion from.

C.Munro
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:14 pm: [report]

What I’m trying to compare is isolated incidents versus a normal reaction.

Isolated incidents?  Normal reaction? 

We’re talking about people’s lives here.  Human suffering.  I don’t give a flip what the “normal” reaction is and I don’t consider abuse “isolated incidents.” 

I also do not consider violating a minor’s privacy essential to the “right” of parents to raise their children.  You are concerned with parents’ rights.  I am concerned with the rights of minors to not be unduly tortured by bad parents.  And one child suffering because some self-righteous “good” parent feels she has the right to know everything about her kid’s life is one child too many. 

Privacy is a right.  Knowledge is not.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:18 pm: [report]

one child being mistreated, and 1,000 children going through an exremely traumatic event with the support of their parents…  while if parent dont know, maybe 100 of those kids go through it by themselves and end up just as emotionally scarred as the abused one.  broaden your view brother.

lea322
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:22 pm: [report]

Knowledge is a parental right. A minor is a person with freedoms and rights, yes, but as a society we have deemed that they have limited rights until a certain age.

Human suffering is horrible. Maybe some of that suffering could be alleviated if a parent is able to support their own child during an extremely difficult time.

C.Munro
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:26 pm: [report]

while if parent dont know, maybe 100 of those kids go through it by themselves and end up just as emotionally scarred as the abused one.

That is the choice that people in these situations have to make, and what I’m saying is that while some may regret a decision they’ve made, it is far better to have had the option.  Without notification laws, there is nothing to prevent a minor from asking her parents for their support in such a time.  However, with such laws in place, there is no choice but to tell them. 

In my view, it is far preferable for somebody to suffer from a decision they’ve made and regretted than to suffer from not having a choice at all.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 01:30 pm: [report]

@lea322 : I agree that it is a difficult time and that many parents would be supportive in the situation, however, to legally mandates it jeopardizes many girls who do not have the luxury of support at home. 

@Mucho: ok listen, obviously I am fired up about this so let’s agree to disagree   Truce?

remembercedricdiggory
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 02:11 pm: [report]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, everyone please stop assuming everyone who gets an abortion is not on birth control.
I’ve been on birth control for seven months, and I am fully aware that birth control can fail. You should be too.
Because if all my methods fail, and I get pregnant, I’m getting an abortion. And I don’t f/ucking need everyone mentally glaring at me, saying I’m irresponsible and a w/hore, because I got pregnant.

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 02:19 pm: [report]

truce.  youre heated b/c of personal experience, and i have none on this topic, so i respectfully step off my little platform.  lets have a beer (or wine cooler, or non-alcoholic drink, or w/e )

Arsenic
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 03:37 pm: [report]

@MuchoMacho & lea322

Legislation should always be made in mind of the worst-case scenario.
I know it sounds silly, but think about it- we can’t just legislate “all killing is unacceptable” and have no clause for self-defense just because murder is rare, would we? Yes, in an ideal situation the person in danger would be able to extricate themselves without violence on their part, and yes, that law can be used by people to get away with murder, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t necessary. We have such things as reasonable doubt because people have decided that one innocent man (or woman for that matter) going to jail for the rest of their lives or even being executed is worse than a *possible* murderer going free.

Having a “self-defense” type of law in this case, because of all the uncertainty and range of different cases, means not having parental notification.
As bumbler says, ideally *all* these girls would have the support and wisdom of a counselor to decide if the parents should be told, but unfortunately the expense and manpower required by such a program would either bankrupt the state, or result in a process so bureaucratic that it would have the opposite effect as intended.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 03:39 pm: [report]

@ Mucho I am down for a chilled shot of Patron Silver (or 12) salt no LIME!  For every lime I find I shall kill the bartender

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 03:41 pm: [report]

you have something in your teeth…

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 03:48 pm: [report]

Nooooo!!! *Shoots Bartender*  lol

you know I actually told a bartender once that if he gave me another friggin lime I would throw it at his head.  He did, and I did and then he decided to play hoops with my cleavage and some cherries >.<

MuchoMacho
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 03:51 pm: [report]

lol…  after we got home from iraq we used to do “ironman shots”...  snort the salt, take the shot, squirt the lime in your eye.  marines are stoopid.

equnsuocha
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 04:02 pm: [report]

Um, ouch!  I usually can stop them with “Limes are for pussies, you dont use limes do you?”  LMAO

joyy
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 04:04 pm: [report]

On a side note: I highly approve of the updated lady news graphic.  The old stock photo was horrible.

Jessica Wakeman
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 10:53 pm: [report]

Hey there, everybody. I responded to all y’alls comments in this post:

http://bit.ly/3XYPsB

ciarabug
wrote on November 6 2009 @ 01:31 pm: [report]

lea322—because the wide majority of the baby-boomer generation are a bunch of terrible, self-absorbed, demanding overgrown children who never should have been allowed to reproduce and who have nearly destroyed the world for the future generation they pumped out in record numbers anyway? that’s my best guess, at least. meh.

ootie grl
wrote on November 6 2009 @ 05:40 pm: [report]

You can tell teens what you want them to do and not do but ultimately they will make their own decision