How Do We Avoid The Friend Zone?

Kiki T
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 01:33 pm: [report]

I agree with the experienced guy. I have never met a straight guy that just wanted to be friends that didn’t include sex. if they want it platonic, that is sign they are gay or don’t think you are attractive or you became friends with them through their girlfriend or wife…otherwise, they will always go for it or have it in their mind… and it’s not like how girls can be friends with guys. my straight guy friend who always clues me in about guys always says that too—a guy always want to f*ck.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 01:38 pm: [report]

@Kiki: Sooo what-cha doin’ tonight?

tttongue_tied
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 01:39 pm: [report]

In my opinion, I think it’s a real loss that guys dislike being just friends with women. I used to be very tomboyish, and loved just hanging out and doing all sorts of random things, getting down and dirty and playing with my older brother and his friends. I had girl friends too, but the second I hit one too hard with a pillow, it was huffing and puffing and not-talking. So I saved one side for my guy friends, the other for the girls. But now that I’ve grown up and gotten all these hormones and girlie bits, it’s like I’m a boy-repellant! I had a great friend last year in my first year of college, and we hung out all the time. I thought it was completely platonic—WRONG. Now he refuses to hang out with me because he’s an “all or nothing” kind of guy. I lost a great friend. All I want are guys to treat me as a person, not a girl, sometimes. It’s so frustrating! But, at the same time, I understand their side too. Nothing hurts more than pretending to be fine when someone’s schmoozing up to your girl in front of you. I don’t want to make that true for my potential guy-friend targets, but sometimes, it sucks. Oh well! Life goes on.

Lilypie
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 01:57 pm: [report]

A bit sad that two of the three first mentioned the girl being fat.

meredith
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 02:16 pm: [report]

Don’t be fat. muahaha!!!

Mean.

julieeetran
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 03:07 pm: [report]

I think it’s hilarious that the key to avoid being in the “friend zone” is to not be fat. When you really think about it though, if the guy isn’t attracted to you, then obviously you’re only going to be friends. So it’s understandable.

“Don’t be fat? (I’m sort of serious?)”
HAHAH!

writergirl
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 03:12 pm: [report]

So basically what Harry told Sally was spot on.

spatula
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 03:19 pm: [report]

i pretty much exaclty agree with The Experienced Guy.

and @ssparks: wow…

Mainer
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 04:07 pm: [report]

@ writergirl - beat me to it. I was going to say Harry nailed it in When Harry Met Sally. Which also goes to explain the “fat” comments. That’s not entirely unbelievable is it? I mean if a guy is only interested in sleeping with a girl, chances are looks do in fact matter. Girls do the same thing - if you’re looking to just get your rocks off, you don’t scan the bar for a guy who is not really attractive but is probably a good guy deep down. It’s just not how it works. And I’m not saying fat girls are unattractive, so please don’t pounce on me for that. I’m speaking in general here.

Guys are always thinking about sex. Everything else is just a means to sex. Jobs - you need money to impress girls. Friends - have hot friends who you may meet and get it on with. Hobbies - more ways to meet girls. So can a guy be friends with a girl? Of course. Does that mean he wouldn’t sleep with her if she wanted? Of course not. But just because he would sleep with her does NOT mean he’d enter into a relationship with her.

The whole thing is timing. If a girl is date-worthy, don’t become his friend first. Become it after. And by ‘after’ I don’t mean after sex. It could be kissing or cuddling next to him when you’re watching a movie. SOME physical contact that friends (new friends, not really good, old friends) do not do.

Jenbug
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 04:46 pm: [report]

If your guy friend says he won’t date you because you are fat, you dodged a bullet! Be yourself and go for what you want and you will avoid the friend zone.

Settling is the only thing that will keep you from getting what you want in life.

dudette
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 05:49 pm: [report]

If a guy you just met slots you in the friend zone:
+ you are not what he is looking for in a girlfriend/ he cannot visualize you romantically
+ he does not find you attractive
+ you have to get your flirt on so he knows any moves would be appreciated.
If all else fails make a move yourself. If it doesn’t work out its not as if you lost a close friendship that took years to develop, it’s just some guy who didn’t want to date you but thought you were cool enough to hang around with, which should be a compliment to you anyway.
I don’t care if you are gorgeous or not, but every guy you meet is not going to want to jump you. Men are people too and they’re not as different as magazines, movies, and tv shows would have you believe.

effing hickster
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 06:05 pm: [report]

I’m not really concerned about the dressing up. You could be wearing hospital scrubs and I’d be cool with it if you were at least paying attention to me.
Which brings up the guy issues. If a guy is interested you, he doesn’t want to talk to you about other guys. That one should be a no-brainer.
To take it a step further, no guy EVER wants to know that you’ve done his best friends before deciding on him. Playing the field is one thing, but when that field is the size of a putting green, it’s not so cool.

dudette
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 06:43 pm: [report]

ps I miss this post, it used to come out weekly, but this is the first one I have seen in a long time. Keep up the thoughts from Guys On IM!

raqueleza
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 10:49 pm: [report]

I thought guys didn’t have a friend zone…and that guys don’t even really want to have unattractive girls as “friends.”

dream316
wrote on September 22 2009 @ 03:31 am: [report]

Agree with dudette, Guys on our IM should be a weekly thing! I love it.

majicksand
wrote on September 22 2009 @ 04:19 pm: [report]

I can’t hold the “you’re too fat” comments against the guys. We asked for honesty, so we can’t whine when we get it. It should be more a “note to self: get to the gym” sort of situation.

That said, different guys do have different preferences. I have several guy friends who will also see a girl as too thin. Note to self: don’t become anorexic.

LilMissSunshine
wrote on September 22 2009 @ 09:41 pm: [report]

Oy vey! Now I’m going to be looking at all my guy friends wondering if the want to #&@$% me. I make it a rule not to wave the candy in front of a hungry man. I’m also really tempted to call my guy friend who I’ve known since we were 4 and ask him 20 questions.
I really suck at knowing if a guy is into me or not. I really need a banner proclaiming that fact for it to sink in.

effing hickster
wrote on September 22 2009 @ 09:43 pm: [report]

@majicksand: Anorexia, not pretty. Nicole Richie is a good example.

Molly Jean
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 09:48 am: [report]

I’m with LilMissSunshine - I am HORRIBLE at judging whether a guy is into me or not. I mean CLUELESS.

For a while I believed that single men & women could really just be friends. Then a guy friend of mine of several years asked me on a date. I flipped on him - I couldn’t understand why we weren’t on the same page. For some reason it really hurt me that all that time he wanted me romantically or to sleep with me (or whatever) & I had no idea. It was really bad & we didn’t speak for like 2 years. We are friends now (I apologized) & he is in a serious relationship. Which also changes things.

Frederica Bimble
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 10:10 am: [report]

Molly Jean: I totally agree. I find it insulting and a bit creepy that someone would just “hang around the peripheral” waiting to ask you out. I just had something like that happen as well. I told him no and that he knew from day one that I had NO romantic interest in him whatsoever, so it annoyed me even more because I am direct (very direct) and always say what I mean.
I’m not associating with him anymore because the time I’ve had off made me realise that I was just spending any “friendship” time with him just because he was there.
I’ll never be able to give him what he desires so it’s best that he looks elsewhere.
Also, we run the risk of hanging out with a “cock-blocker” because you can’t eye up other guys or talk freely about your romantic life with your “friend” because these sorts of guys tend to make childish comments or do “territorial marking” types of behaviour when you’re out and about to give potential dates the idea that you’re dating him! Hence the cock-blocking.

I understand what you mean totally and I often wonder why people make these things so complicated.

piscesguy
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 10:17 am: [report]

Any guy that actually comes out and says “you’re too fat” is a dick anyway.

I think the bottom line is that guys don’t have a “friend zone” the way women seem to. Putting aside sexual interest that is always there (ie. the Harry Met Sally rule), guys can develop genuine romantic interest with women they’ve been friends with for years.

Just as the other guys here have pointed out, if a guy isn’t asking you out or showing interest in you, it’s probably because he isn’t attracted to you. He’ll be your friend, and if you flirt hard with him he’ll want to sleep with you but still not date you.

However, there’s nothing in a guy to say that the friendship won’t develop into real attraction over time, especially if you have click well together and have the same interests and sense of humor. I know it sounds like a total romantic-comedy movie scenario, and it is, so don’t read too much into it. I’m just saying it’s possible.

I’ve heard the “friend zone” described as a switch in a woman’s head… once you meet her you have a limited amount of time where she decides if you’re date-worthy or not. And once she flicks the switch and decides you’re just a friend, that decision is (mostly) final. game over.

As a guy, I don’t relate to this concept at all. We make snap judgments just like you do about whether we find you attractive when we first meet. Yes, looks play a big part in that judgment early on, but so does your personality and the kind of person you are. The more I get to know someone and get along really well with her, the more I find I become attracted to her, and looks matter less.

Shasta
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 11:07 am: [report]

I had a college girlfriend who was overweight (sorry to validate) and not very confident with men. Her strategy was to befriend guys she wanted to date in hopes of winning them over with her personality.

It backfired every single time. She acted like their sister and the guys would confide their love for other girls and ask her for advice to get them. It was so pathetic.

slip
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 11:49 am: [report]

I know in the first few minutes whether I could see myself involved with a woman.

If I find her attractive, she’s got a chance unless she disqualifies herself by doing something I find unattractive, like being rude or unkind, or lighting a cigarette.

If I don’t, it will be almost impossible to change that.

Slip

Molly Jean
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 02:11 pm: [report]

Shasta: your college girlfriend sounds so conniving! I mean, do most women really have “strategies” for getting men? Maybe I’m completely out of it, but I don’t go places looking for men or to meet men, so I definitely don’t have strategies…I guess I’m more laissez-faire where love is concerned…I usually meet people I like when I’m floating around doing my own thing, you know, living my life…I can’t think of anything less romantic than forcing something, much less tricking a man into falling for you. Eeek.

Molly Jean
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 02:17 pm: [report]

Frederica Bimble: thank you! Finally someone gets it! Everyone said I was so mean at the time. And my friend was/is not a creep (just for the record), he’s actually a wonderful man, but it just freaked me out…because I couldn’t help but think, “oh so you did this with me or talked about that with me & you maybe really didn’t enjoy it? You had a motive?” I handled it all wrong, though, but I did learn to be weary of befriending guys. And in retrospect I see the signs…like everyone asking if we were dating/assuming we were sleeping together or telling us we should date…etc.

PS: I also wish this feature was weekly…I love that Amelia doesn’t take #&@$% from the guys! Plus I love how embarrassingly honest the guys are!

C.Munro
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 02:52 pm: [report]

I’m a straight male, and I most certainly do have a friend zone. Basically, what it comes down to in my case is if don’t think a girl is sexually attracted to me, I lose interest myself pretty quickly. Like, after a couple of weeks quickly. However, I may still like seeing her as a friend, so I’ll hang out with her.

I used to have a lot of unrequited crushes when I was younger, and after a while the whole thing started tasting bitter. I learned how to let a crush die (quit feeding it), so now any time I think I might like a friend too much or want something she’s not willing to give, I make a conscious decision to NEVER sleep with her. Exit crush, enter comfortable friendship.

datingdad70
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 05:59 pm: [report]

Men don’t really want women as friends. They want to date them…at least on some level.

Women: If you want the man, then touch him. Touch his arm. Touch his chest. Play with his hair. He’ll take the hint and go for it.

But so many stupid women have been just mean spirited wenches that men don’t bother taking the chance of getting screamed at for making a move to something more when she wasn’t really interested. Why bother opening up for that.

If she was interested, she’d give a clear hint. But women don’t like doing that, do they…they like to waste time with stupid games.

Their loss!

VX967
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 06:10 pm: [report]

For men the “friend Zone” is equally a curse. For me I was raised to be polite,nice and harmless. With women,making the first step was so fearful. I had many female friends who probably never knew that I lusted after them.

Keeping out of the “friend zone” is making a move” hold his had,rub his leg, put his hand of your bare breast, don’t talk about it do it! Many “shy” guys and timid ones are out there. Many guys are concerned that they will make a mistake.
Seduction is in your court because of the times use it wildly!

Countess Mariska
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 09:51 pm: [report]

Haven’t you people noticed that love can develop FROM friendship?

C.Munro
wrote on September 24 2009 @ 08:50 am: [report]

I wish people would quit posting this BS about men not wanting to be friends with women. Just because you don’t want friends of the opposite sex doesn’t mean nobody else does. Frankly, I dislike the vast majority of other men. They either bore me with their sports obsessions or piss me off with stupid domination games, trying to prove which one is the alpha. I have no use for other men, and if I couldn’t be friends with women, I’d be a lonely bastard.

That said, women, if you want to avoid a guy’s friend zone, one thing to do is completely avoid talking about other men.

wavefarer
wrote on September 24 2009 @ 09:09 am: [report]

I get so sick of readying these trite followings/recitations of the “When Harry Met Sally” man-woman friendship structure. Is individual thought really that dead?

Guys, you can be friends with women without having sex. If you can’t, wait: You’ll grow up. Does that mean you’re not allowed to think about having sex with them? No. And, hey, if it comes up, go for it.

Ladies, why not flip the question? How does a guy not get locked into the friend zone? Well, probably vocalize his desires, for one. It works both ways. Say you like the dude; it’s the only way short of flat-out jumping him that he’ll figure it out.

I echo C.Munro’s post above. Another big that will immediately get you shunted into the friend zone - a not irrecoverable designation, but it will take some work - is actually calling a guy a “friend.” Even worse is “nice” - even if it’s a true adjective, find a better one, or just don’t say it. That’s the most unsexy adjective in the world. No one nails nice.

retro chic
wrote on September 24 2009 @ 09:46 am: [report]

I’m with “The Experienced Guy” every time. Things like friends vs. romantic become less and less black-and-white over time. Life is in the messy middle of the grey zone. People would be a lot happier and less confused if they adapted to the fluidity of that.

Now for true developed friendships: See, if I was oblivious to one of my guy-friend’s changing feelings from the “friend zone,” and he wanted to act on them, I’d expect him to flat out tell me. The same way we’d talk about anything else in the course of continued respect for a good friendship. I’d be put off by the left-field uncharacteristic touch or grab. This actually happened recently for me.

However, in reverse, I think a man needs affirmative contact to be shown outside the zone. He’ll gesture (one way or the other) accordingly. Not that he *wouldn’t* want to talk about it first – just that the response is more clear if shown. Overall, I feel, and have been told by my men friends, they’re far more receptive to the switch than women, and is why I agree with “The Experienced Guy.”

——

For the NEW meetings? Rewind tape here: I think “Friend Zone” is a misnomer for me. If these nebulous situations are happening from the beginning, they’re not even *friends* yet. “Friends” is just a default label or a holding-pattern for “that which has yet to be defined. It is not just the misuse, but the abuse of the word and its status, for me. I would never refer to someone new as a “friend.” That esteemed title is reserved for those who have earned that place in my life, too – just as I’d expect to do the same. Upon meeting, if one desires the other, he/she should define/confine that very early on with their own “rules” about dating. All else seems to go phfff…

Mainer
wrote on September 24 2009 @ 10:41 am: [report]

@ waverfarer: I think that was the point a lot of us were making in regards to being friends with women: We don’t sleep with all our lady friends, but we sure do think about it, and if it came up we would probably go right ahead and do it. The only reason we were referencing Harry was because he sums it up quite well and it is a common reference most people will get. It’s not so much a lack of individual thought as it is a reference.

Men can be friends with women if they don’t find them attractive. Unattractive (subjective) = friend zone. The other “Friend Zone” uh, zone, is our guy friends ex’s. Off Limits! So yes, men and women can be “Just Friends.” But there is a criteria.

BlueVibe
wrote on September 24 2009 @ 12:03 pm: [report]

Molly Jean—that’s not conniving. That’s lonely and sad.

Trust me; I’ve been there. If you don’t have a lot of confidence about your looks, what else are you going to do? You hope that they like you for your personality instead. I’ve been the funny/reliable/safe female friend for years because I’m not cool and I’m not physically attractive and I have no flirting ability at all.

My boyfriend and I met on the Internet: He was already on there looking for a girlfriend (not just a platonic friend) and I got his attention by being smart and funny. I can just about guarantee that if we’d met in person first, he wouldn’t have given me the time of day.

And, yes—men and women can totally be friends. I don’t know from where this myth came that they can’t, unless it was started by some TV show aimed at oversexed twenty-year-olds looking to create needless drama. Now, maybe they can’t if everyone is looking for sexual innuendo at every turn, but sane adults definitely can.

magenta generation
wrote on September 24 2009 @ 05:18 pm: [report]

I’ve been in the friend-zone and I just chalked it up to he wasn’t attracted to me physically. It took me a while to deal with it because I had such a huge crush on him but I’ve since moved forward and accepted the fact that a really good guy didn’t like me romantically, especially since he was “in love,” and got his heart broken by a girl who kept him in the friend-zone.

Needless to say, I think my weight had something to do with it (even though he’s overweight too- go figure)but I will never know why he told me he “doesn’t see me that way.”
He has since gone on to another unrequited love but I don’t feel anything for him anymore, if anything I feel sad that he doesn’t respond to women who are interested in him yet gravitates to girls who hardly notice him. Oh well.

You can’t control someone else’s heart and mind when it comes to love.

I just decided to be the mature one and move on, just talk to him occasionally when I happen to see him around or he sends me a text now and then.

I’ve learned not to read the signs for a guy who doesn’t see me as worthy of a relationship and once I get that instinct, cut the conversation short. No use crying over spilled milk.

RiverDesendantNelson
wrote on October 14 2009 @ 01:06 am: [report]

Okay, I created this account to respond to this. THERE IS NO FRIEND ZONE! Any girl who I am friends with I have interest in. That interest can grow very quickly with some flirting and long talks. I am sorry, I think that if two people can connect that they have a chance to become a couple. That’s my two cents for now.

RiverDesendantNelson
wrote on October 14 2009 @ 01:49 am: [report]

Okay, I’ve been lurking around here for a bit and I finally made an account to respond to this specific question. There is no friend zone. To me if we are friends that means we have a chance. All of my friends (who happen to be female) are somehow attractive to me. Now I don’t mean that I only hang out around pretty girls, I mean that they are generally nice people who I get along with. I find that if I can connect to a person and be their friend, with a bit of flirting, I can connect to that person even more and maybe even start a relationship.In conclusion, there is no friend zone, just a place where people don’t talk about their feelings for each other.

friendzoned
wrote on October 17 2009 @ 02:31 am: [report]

I must say that I agree with RiverDesendantNelson. The is no Friend Zone. It’s an artificial construct, and a bad one at that. One realization that I had a while back was that people have been doing relationships wrong. They look for friendship qualities in one person and then sex and romance in another. When the sex and romance relationships repeatedly fail, they assume that they can’t add sex and romance to one of the friend relationships without disaster ensuing. That couldn’t be further from the truth. The best relationships that are almost sure to last the longest are those where you’re both great friends and then add romance and sex to make it something more. I finally figured out why I hate dating so much. I don’t feel comfortable having to go out and meet strangers when I might have a great friend right here who I already do everything with; who has a whole lot in common with me. The trouble is that it’s hard to fight social norms. I’ve found that women especially, think that they must maintain a strict line between friends and potential boyfriends. The friends stick around as long as they can, the boyfriends (usually jerks they barely know) come and go. Then, women wonder where all the good guys are and why they can’t find anyone for a lasting relationship (perhaps marriage). The answer is that they’ve sidelined them all in the so-called Friend Zone. Some are just friends and will never be anything else, but there are others who might be open to something more, if the woman would just give him a green light. If I have a female friend who shows me no interest, even when I’ve tried to show interest in her, and who parades each jerk of the week in front of me thinking that I’ll have no problem being 3rd-wheeled, then I lose interest, and not only do I stay in the Friend Zone willingly, but I also begin to drift away eventually. This is especially true in a case where she has no single-time between jerks, so that I never even get a chance to be more direct. In conclusion, don’t use friendship to get sex. Use friendship to get to know someone. Just be open to the possibility that a friendship could and perhaps should lead to something more. Don’t pass up the chance for something wonderful, real, and long-lasting just because of some silly social boundaries that that say we shouldn’t date friends who we already know and love, but it’s perfectly okay to date random strangers.

majicksand
wrote on October 17 2009 @ 09:38 am: [report]

@riverdesendantnelson and @friendzoned: I think you guys are misunderstanding the female point of view on the friend zone. It DOES exist and for good reason. Most of us “friend” a guy for one of two reasons.

1) You’re a great person, but there’s no sexual attraction. I’ve had quite a few male friends over the years who were great people, but I had no desire to sleep with them. Why get involved when you already know there’s no spark?

2) You have qualities that are fine in a friend but deal-breakers in a boyfriend. Expectations change when you start dating someone. I have friends who treat me just fine as their friend, but I’ve seen how they interact with girlfriends. For instance, they don’t get jealous with me, but they need to know where their GF is, and with whom, every second.

If you are in the friend zone, in most cases, there is a good reason for it. “Silly social boundaries” have nothing to do with it. One other thing to consider. If you are truly a friend, you have no right to expect more or to resent it if you don’t get it. Your friend is not “parad[ing] each jerk of the week” in front of you as some sort of punishment.

We are NOT trying to rub your nose in it or make you jealous.

The fact is, we don’t think of you in those terms at all. Pushing yourself on us as though we somehow owe you something is your issue. Be a friend without expectations or walk away. Otherwise, you’re not really a friend. It is you failing us, not the other way around.

RiverDesendantNelson
wrote on October 18 2009 @ 12:30 am: [report]

@majicksand
I do understand the female point of view on this subject, I just don’t understand why there has to be the aforementioned view. I just don’t understand at what point in time someone divined that friends can’t be more than just friends. Many of my friends have told me that if we weren’t friends they would definitely date me because I am a “good guy”. When does it happen that a guy becomes “undatable”? Any feedback would be wonderful.

majicksand
wrote on October 19 2009 @ 08:44 am: [report]

@RiverDesendantNelson: According to my husband (who has apparently been “friended” many times), I am an anomoly. When my male friends have expressed an interest beyond friendship, I have been very direct. I made “never gonna happen” abundantly clear. Apparently most women do not. Their responses are vague and allow men to hold on to the hope that this girl will somehow change her mind. I won’t say that never happens, but it’s highly unlikely.

I know lots of “good guys” that I will be friends with forever but would never date. “If we weren’t friends…” is a cop out. That translates into “I’m not interested in you romantically”. Some woman make excuses in an honest attempt to not hurt your feelings. Others are simply stringing you along, so you’ll continue to provide whatever “service” (money, rides, shoulder to cry on, etc.).

Being friended doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you. It just means the girl in question isn’t right for you. How you handle that, however, speaks to your character. Can you accept that the two of you are just friends, and that’s all you’ll ever be? Do you still want the friendship on those terms? If not, then you aren’t really friends anyway; walk away.

Whatever you do, don’t stick around pining for what will mostly likely never be. You do not have the right to resent her for not falling madly in love with you. She does not have the right to manipulate you by feeding you just enough hope. Neither is healthy.

If you can be friends, and only friends, great. If not, then focus your attention elsewhere.