PETA's Save The Whales Billboard Tells Women To Lose The Blubber

soulja brookestuh
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:11 am: [report]

Um, I know a lot of hefty vegetarians.

Emi
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:19 am: [report]

I’m a vegetarian, but I want nothing to do with PETA. :(
And I know plenty of ‘hefty’ vegetarians too. Just because you cut out meat doesn’t mean you stop eating other junk. Screws your diet all up unless you pay attention to make sure you’re getting the right stuff.

Claireific
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:26 am: [report]

It’s true. A former (veg) roommate of mine loved to chastise me for eating meat, but in her case, instead of chowing down on greasy burgers, she ate her fill of potato chips, ice cream, and pre-made noodle meals that were PACKED with saturated fat. She was always 15-20 pounds overweight, and never understood why. Hmmm. It probably is easier to eat healthily when you’ve cut out meat, but you still have to be aware.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:33 am: [report]

I would like to point out that PETA is not the only vegetarian/animal rights group out there, only the loudest and most obnoxious. The Humane Society and Vegan Outreach are great organizations which work to end human and animal suffering without objectifying women and judging the overweight.

Riley
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:38 am: [report]

When is PETA going to realize they are a parody of themselves? I didn’t think my “respect” level of their organization could sink any lower.

I’m going to go eat some animals, just to spite them. Maybe I’ll stock up on veal and quail eggs.

sadie
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:44 am: [report]

Statistically vegans have a lower BMI than vegetarians and omnivores and statistically vegetarians have a lower BMI than omnivores. That said, you can certainly be a fat vegan or vegetarian if you don’t eat properly.

I also think PETA could’ve made a better case by talking about the relationship between global warming and obesity, rather than telling people to lose weight just to look better.

PETA usually misses the mark with whatever they’re trying to say.

_jsw_
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:48 am: [report]

I’m very much in favor of the ethical treatment of animals. However… PETA makes me want to do as Riley suggested. After all, baby seal is delicious when cooked in a stew with whale meat.

Someone should start a “Save the Animals: Boycott PETA” series of billboards. Preferably, ones featuring naked actresses.

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:59 am: [report]

@Riley/jsw: I agree… PETA is a joke that mostly angers people… and completely fails to get their message across! They make me enjoy my Prime Rib all the more! When are they going to realize that there are a lot of animals that have been domesticated for so long that releasing them into the wild would KILL THEM? There are third world countries that depend on animals to survive! I’m all for treating them well, but I don’t think I’ll ever stop eating meat!

And yes… I think associating thin with vegetarian is just niave on their part! I’m perfectly healthy, a good body weight, and I REALLY enjoy steak!

_jsw_
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 11:40 am: [report]

As much as I despise PETA, their US$1M prize for in vitro meat is probably an extra incentive for those working in that field. For those who don’t know about it, in vitro meat is, in essence, “grown” without an actual animal ever living and getting killed. It would make eating meat as ethical as eating vegetables, and it promises significant reduction in the resources needed to harvest meat as well as a significant improvement in the quality of the meat we eat. That million-dollar prize represents just about the only PETA action with which I can agree. As resullins pointed out, meat is essential for survival in most areas of the world. By making it cheaper and easier to obtain higher-quality meat without the byproducts and potential ethical dilemma of raising and slaughtering animals, everyone will benefit.

I love meat. Mmmm. But I won’t mind eating healthier meat that didn’t previously belong to an animal.

GreenAura
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 11:45 am: [report]

I’m glad people on this thread are buying into the whole “vegetarian = thin” myth. Yes, eating greasy burgers loaded with condiments isn’t doing anything good for your waistline. BUT check the ingredients label on your vegetarian items. Most soy and corn products are LOADED with 30+ ingredients, meaning it will take a lot more energy for your body to process it all. You would be better off eating a “clean burning” protein like salmon, chicken or turkey. I understand that some people are veggies/vegans for ethical reasons. If that is the case, then only buy products that have less then 10 ingredients (all of which you can pronounce) and watch the sodium content. Or just make things yourself. And also, most soy and corn products out there are made with GMO’s, aka they are grown in a petry dish. The only soy/corn you can trust are the ones marked organic. Just something for you to ponder if you are considering making a transition to vegetarianism.

GreenAura
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 11:48 am: [report]

OOPS, I meant “are *NOT* buying into the whole vegetarian = thin myth”

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:04 pm: [report]

Yeah, but meat really isn’t necessary for survival in most parts of the world. If you eat meat, most likely you do it because you like the way it tastes. I’ve been vegetarian for ten years now, vegan for most of it, and I’m in damned good shape. It doesn’t mean I’m a fan of PETA. If you want to know why I’m vegetarian, ask me, not Ingrid Newkirk.
PS- While I know there are fat vegetarians, and slim omnivores, I am an example of a vegetarian who incidentally lost a LOT of weight when I stopped eating meat. About thirty pounds, actually
http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:08 pm: [report]

@brandy: What about the villages that use animals to work their farms? What about the places that don’t have access to medical care that makes vegan and vegetarian lifestyles possible? I’m not saying it can’t be done, but there are a lot of people (myself included) that either have to eat meat or take a crap-ton of OTC iron supplements. I’ll never discount that vegetarian is healthier for SOME people, but not all. PETA would do WAY more harm than good if they got their way.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:21 pm: [report]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study
http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_933_ENU_HTML.htm
Resullins: With rare exceptions, vegetarian diets are far healthier. It sounds like you have an iron deficiency. I don’t pretend to know much about that. I would never suggest someone put their health at risk, and if I had a medical reason to eat meat, I would. But Buddhists and Hindus around the world have been vegetarian for thousands of years without the “access to medical care that makes vegan and vegetarian lifestyles possible.” A balanced vegetarian diet includes lots of protein from sources like beans and nuts, and iron can come from dark, leafy greens like kale and swiss chard.
I am not telling you or anyone else you have to go vegetarian. But we should consider reducing the amount of meat we eat as a society. It can do a LOT of good, including reducing diseases like cancer and heart disease, reducing global warming gasses, factory farm run-off, cruelty and pain.
PS- As I do not speak for PETA, PETA does not speak for me…

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:28 pm: [report]

You could be right, but there were also societies that have been eating meat for thousands of years without the problems western civilizations associate with omnivorous diets. But that’s all heresay anyway. If it’s healthier for you, more power to you! I do, however, mostly disgagree with PETA’s policies because their ultimate goal is truly complete animal freedom. No more pets, no more mules to pull plows, no more research… I don’t know of any pets that could be released and survive. I have a python that couldn’t survive within 10,000 miles of here.

I just think this billboard is another way for PETA to push themselves farther and farther towards becoming a farce of themselves!

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:36 pm: [report]

OK, resullins, I still like you.
One more thing I have to say, though, and I’ll let this post be: we eat too much meat here. Agreed? Never before have so many people eaten meat so often. If you ask your grandparents, they probably only ate meat a few times a week unless they were wealthy. We, on the other hand, tend to eat it at every meal. That isn’t healthy for anyone, unless you are a bear.

angel001717
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:37 pm: [report]

O.M.G. really??? size discrimination is the last acceptable prejudice. racism is not okay. homophobia is not okay. sexism is not okay. but sizeism is?

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:39 pm: [report]

@Brandy: I do think you’re right. I honestly believe that the key to doing anything healthy is balance and moderation. I’m not the biggest vegetable eater in the world, but I’m ok with that, and I’m trying to get better. When I eat meat, I eat a normal sized portion… I can barely finish a 7 oz. steak! And that’s huge to me. I do agree that a half-pound burger for lunch is just stupid!

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:45 pm: [report]

@angel: While I agree that blaming someone for something they can’t control is NOT ok, I also don’t agree that all of society should have to adjust because someone likes fried chicken so much they can’t fit into the airline seats… so they take up half of mine. There’s a difference between being large and being morbidly obese. It’s the latter category that I think most people get upset about.

And if homophobia didn’t exist anymore, why wouldn’t they be allowed to marry? It’s still rampant. Sodomy is still illegal in some places in the U.S.

All that said, I do truly believe it’s wrong for PETA to use this image and slogan… for many reasons!

sklut
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 01:06 pm: [report]

@ _jsw_:“I love meat. Mmmm. But I won’t mind eating healthier meat that didn’t previously belong to an animal.” I’m sorry but absolutely not. I have no interet in eating “meat” that isn’t from an actual animal.

_jsw_
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 01:14 pm: [report]

@sklut: It’s meat, from an actual animal embryo, grown the same (at a cellular level) way an animal’s body grows it. It just isn’t grown by an animal.

powplz
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 01:18 pm: [report]

I’m with sklut - I’ll just eat non-meat items (legumes, veggies, grains, etc) before I eat meat grown in a lab if for whatever reason in whatever situation I’m not going to eat actual meat.

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 01:20 pm: [report]

I think I’m with JSW on this one. I’d at least give it a shot. Then again… that meant when I went to visit my boyfriend’s parents on their cattle farm I wouldn’t get to tag the calves! It’s kind of fun… as long as the mother isn’t quick and knocks you off… even when they don’t have horns, those suckers hurt!

fallonthecity
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 01:45 pm: [report]

Oh good. Not only do we women owe it to society in general to be thin so they don’t have to deal with looking at the fat, and owe it to men to be thin so they will want to f*ck us, but now our “blubber” is KILLING ANIMALS. ‘Cause if fat women weren’t eating ALL THAT MEAT, animals wouldn’t be suffering, y’know.

*eye roll*

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:06 pm: [report]

“we owe it to men to be thin so they will want to f*ck us”?
Oh, really? Large people never have sex? Then where are all the fat kids coming from? (joking… sort of)
Look, nobody owes being thin to anybody. Seriously. And its NOT OK for people or organizations to made overweight folks feel badly about themselves. However, being within a healthy weight range is better for everyone’s body… meat or no meat, simple fact.

*sam*
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:19 pm: [report]

*sigh* aww, as disgusting as this billboard and what it represents is, it does make me miss home…

and for what it’s worth (which I’m wavering isn’t much) from that picture, it’s either located in the newly renovated part of downtown, or San Marco… both of which are the ritzier parts of town where it’s probably not causing much of a stir. (and likely located relatively close to an advertisement for either, a: local car dealership, or b: a church).

oh Jacksonville, how I have loathed your blatant segregation and class distinctions over the years, only to become nostalgic upon being reminded of them far far away…

fallonthecity
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:26 pm: [report]

@brandyalexander: Of course fat people have sex. I’m not even going to talk about “where are all the fat kids coming from?”

I think you got the sarcasm of my comment, and I’m not sure what your point is… I think you can recognize that the fat-shaming in our society is not always as overt and straight-forward as this billboard, that many girls and women (even in the “healthy”/“normal” weight range) feel the (mind-boggling) pressure to be thin(ner) so that they will be more acceptable or attractive.

As for fat and health, please see “Don’t You Realize Fat is Unhealthy?” by Kate Harding for a different perspective—particularly points 1 and 2.
http://kateharding.net/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:31 pm: [report]

@fallonthecity: I am not talking about people being a little overweight, I am talking about being obese.
And yes, I know fat people have sex.
The end.

fallonthecity
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:35 pm: [report]

Well, I *am* talking about “obese” people as well as people who are “a little overweight.”
And fat-shaming of all types is still ridiculous when directed at obese people, and morbidly obese people, and people who have to be lifted from their beds with cranes.
What part of this do you take issue with?

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:41 pm: [report]

I am not “fat shaming,” and if you had read my other posts, you would have seen the parts where I said I am not alright with making people feel badly about their bodies. I simply thought the part about being thin to make men “want to f*ck us” was way over the top. The end, part II.

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:55 pm: [report]

@fallonthecity: Do you think it’s ok to shame alcoholics for what they’re doing? There are entire reality series dedicated to that. How is being so morbidly obese different? If you sit there and tell them it’s ok, you’re lying! I really hate the way society tells people that thin is better, yes. But I also believe theres a point where you’re out of control and someone needs to tell you to put the damn fork down! I’m all about being comfortable in one’s own body, but getting to the point where you need someone to wipe your ass deserves an intervention.

fallonthecity
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:55 pm: [report]

It was all part of the sarcasm in my original comment. If you misread my comment to mean that I actually believe women *owe* anything to men or to anyone else, then I apologize for not being clear enough. But yes, the desire to be thin has a deep root in the desire to meet an arbitrary beauty standard that is considered attractive by our culture.

I have actually read your other posts, and I have not accused you of fat-shaming. You said that a “healthy” weight (I assume you mean by BMI standards) is better for you than being overweight, and the Kate Harding post I linked shows that may not be necessarily true—just thought you might be interested.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:56 pm: [report]

resullins is alcoholic-shaming again :(

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:57 pm: [report]

I know… I can’t help it… I alcoholicist. My employer is sending me to sensitivity training as we speak.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 02:58 pm: [report]

does anyone else like kittens?

Riley
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:00 pm: [report]

@Joyy and sklut - Most of your mass-produced foods are in some way lab-altered. Corn and soybeans have been that way for years, in order to prevent pest-related crop loss. You’ll be hard-pressed to find actual organic/non-modified foods, check the USDA’s definition of organic; not quite what I thought it would be.

I’d be willing to try the meat, probably be a lot cleaner than what you get now. Wonder how it would taste though; since grass-fed cattle different taste than grain-fed? It would also cut back on tons of waste produced by mass farming operations and probably be a lot cheaper food once the system has been up and running a while.

fallonthecity
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:02 pm: [report]

@resullins: Why would I (or you) think it’s okay to shame an alcoholic for their addiction?

Why do so many people think that fat people (or alcoholics) don’t know they’re fat (or alcoholic)? Not that those two things are even remotely the same.

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:03 pm: [report]

@Riley: Here’s a conundrum for your also apt brain. If we stop mass-producing cows for meat… where are we going to get leather? We’d throw the tanneries out of business too. Most of their skins come straight from the slaughterhouses.

Squidtermz
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:03 pm: [report]

PETA is BS. Plain and simple. The woman who runs it is pure evil. Watch Penn and Tellers BS show about PETA and you will get FURIOUS. They also believe in animal LIBERATION! Meaning that all of those brainless celebs who pump money into PETA don’t even realize that their precious Tinkerbells and toy-yorkies would be out on the streets if they had it their way. They don’t even believe in domesticated animals. They want all animals free. Literally, on the streets and not in homes. So say bye bye to Fido if PETA actually did get their way.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:04 pm: [report]

@resullins: And what about all the grain we are literally throwing down the throats of said cows? We already subsidize these nutso farmers enough to throw away lots of their crops.

_jsw_
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:08 pm: [report]

@brandyalexander: Sometimes, but they’re a bit tough for my taste. Properly slow-cooked and seasoned, though, they’re pretty tasty.

powplz
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:09 pm: [report]

@Riley - lab altering seeds for pest/etc resistant crops still produces a plant that yields a fruit though, as much as the animal is still where meat comes from whether it’s one of those pigs from Super Size Me (where they talk about how vulnerable the pigs are to certain diseases because they’re so controlled, etc) or an elk shot in the forest. Meat developed independently from an animal is just a WHOLE new ballgame in my book.

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:09 pm: [report]

@CheeeeEEEEse: My boyfriend’s family owns a cattle farm in KY… so I get to see first-hand what happens on these things. Granted, they literally have the ideal farming set-up, and not all farms are like this, but instead of growing meant, I’d rather all farmers switch to this MO.

They raise Herefords, grass-fed, but not antibiotic free. They also have corn/soybean fields. When the time of year is not right for corn/soybeans, they grow, cut, bail, and store their own hayto feed their herd for the entire year. If they didn’t have the cattle, their fields would simply be empty in the winter months. So they don’t waste anything.

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:10 pm: [report]

*meat*... not meant. It’s Monday… sorry!

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:10 pm: [report]

@resullins: That makes more sense.

Riley
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:10 pm: [report]

@Resullins - Easy. Prices will rise slightly on leather; there will likely be a spike in price when people start screaming about being put out of business; as you alluded. The people that will be hurt most will be the meat commodity corporate farms, they bankrupted rural farmers years ago; I suppose it is their turn.

There will still be a demand for real meat, there will still be millions upon millions of cattle in countries like Brazil and Australia and the United States; leather will hardly be scarce and neither will natural meat. If we want to go further down this road; skin can also be grown, it is an organ like anything else. Now you have a cleaner source of meat, leather and cow tongue for the more adventurous foodies out there. Cow tongue is too chewy for me.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:12 pm: [report]

I read somewhere that if China wants to eat like we do, we would need another earth and a half to satiate the need.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:14 pm: [report]

-jsw- then you aren’t getting them fat enough…

_jsw_
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:17 pm: [report]

@brandyalexander: You know, you’re probably right. I tend to feed the fatter ones to the puppies to fatten them up because bbq puppy sandwiches are just finger licking good, and the bbq process needs a bit of fat on the meat to work. I’ll try saving a choice kitten or two for myself and feed the puppies some of the leftover baby seal meat.

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:20 pm: [report]

@jsw: I’ll tell you what’s good… feed the kitties AND puppies to a snake. Ever had snake on a spit? Oh… that’s good meat! ‘Cept you’re not allowed to eat my snake. Fluffy’s a sweet boy!

Jessica Wakeman
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:27 pm: [report]

@fallonthecity Yes, that’s been my biggest problem with this billboard. The PETA press release made it sound like they thought they were doing women a favor by suggesting, via this billboard, that they lose weight by going vegetarian. That’s obviously just an excuse so they can get away with calling overweight women “whales” with “blubber.” I actually am a vegetarian, but I would never give money to PETA because I’m afraid my dollars would go towards something like this.

*sam*
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:28 pm: [report]

@cheeeeEEEEse: I’ve also read somewhere that if everyone on earth became a vegetarian, we could effectively end world hunger.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:32 pm: [report]

http://www.earthoria.com/global-hunger-the-more-meat-we-eat-the-fewer-people-we-can-feed.html

itsaine
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 03:50 pm: [report]

I think that billboard is disgusting.

Instead of ridicule, how about working towards finding a way to lower the costs of healthier foods so lower income people - usually the heaviest, as they cannot afford to buy organic/many healthy items - can have the opportunity to maintain healthy eating habits.

I’ve been in that place myself, and when you’re living in one of the most expensive cities in the US and classified as a member of the “working poor” ... you’re going to choose quantity over quality in most cases to make your dollar stretch further.

GreenAura
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:00 pm: [report]

@ *sam*: not so sure about that. If everyone went vegetarian, we would have to start producing MUCH more corn/soy to sustain everyones hunger. More corn/soy production = more large scale production companies = more green house gases = more global warming. It also means that we would be depleting more topsoil then we already are. I think we would literally run out of room to grow anything, unless we grew it in labs.

An ideal world would have every person growing their own vegan foods, and maybe having one or two animals at a time for slaughter purposes. Complete self-sustainability is the only possible way for us to save this planet. We, as humans are using too much earth. The animals that we breed for consumption are using too much earth.

Besides self-sustained farming, the only possible choice I could see would be limiting each family to 2 children. On that note, I welcome any comments about what a communist I am for thinking that

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:02 pm: [report]

@ GreenAura:
I’m with you on the 2 kids/family idea. But maybe that’s for another post
The thing to think about with hunger is grain. If there were a better system of food distribution, then, feeding grain directly to the people who need it most, rather than to animals bred for slaughter, would be more effective. I don’t think we would be growing more grain in the long run.

resullins
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:07 pm: [report]

@brandy: actually, we would. An example. There are two parts to grain. The head and the straw. Animals have to eat both, humans only eat the head. In a normal situation, the grain grows all winter, sustaining the soil and reaching a few feet in height (4-5’). Then it’s harvested. Either it’s all bailed together and dumped in a hay ring, or it’s processed, separated, the head turned to grain, and the straw is basically waste.

So to get more edible grain. We’d either have a CRAP-ton of straw waste… there’s only so many flwoer gardens you can lay straw on. Or we’d have to only let it grow to 2’... meaning we’d have to process it 5 times a year. This idea would severely deplete the soil and raise greenhouse gases from the processing.

*sam*
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:07 pm: [report]

@GreenAura: I read that a few years ago in a philosophy class and I want to say that the leading premise of the article was that you could feed all of the starving children by using the grain we feed to animals to feed them instead. (I could be wrong, but like I said, it was a few years ago, and in an 8am philosophy class ). if that’s truly the case though, we wouldn’t necessarily have to produce more corn/soy, and therefore we wouldn’t be raising green house gasses or depleting soil anymore than we already are. and while I think self-sustainability is a nice concept on paper, I just don’t think it’s very practical.—I hear so many working mothers complain a/b how they barely have time to go to the grocery store as it is, lil’ lone grow their own crops or raise their own cattle!!!

and as for your fascist idea a/b controlling the ever-rising population… well, let’s just say that again, it looks great on paper, but could never be implemented

*sam*
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:13 pm: [report]

@resullins: really? that’s interesting. I’d never heard that before, but it does make sense. however, you would think that someone, somewhere could figure out a use for all that straw!!! straw hats as the new year-round fashion must-have?? turning straw into fuel?? straw-based building materials?? lol I could go on, but probably shouldn’t.

GreenAura
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:19 pm: [report]

@ brandy: “feeding grain directly to the people who need it most, rather than to animals bred for slaughter”... TOTALLY AGREE!! If I ran this damn country, here’s how it would go: Everyone is responsible for their own food. They can grow whatever foods they want (fruits, veggies, pot—save for another post). If people felt they HAD to eat meat, they should be allowed 2 pigs, 2 cows and 2 chickens with a rooster. They can grow their own grains enough to feed them and their animals. We would have to initially help out 3rd world countries and the entire continent of Africa, but they would have the same food rights as us. No more fast food, no more grocery chains. Complete sustainable living. That’s my personal utopian view

powplz
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:20 pm: [report]

@*sam* & resullins - You could bale it and build straw-bale housing. Granted the method is labor-intensive and not suited to all climates, but still, you could probably do a lot of good for people through Habitat for Humanity-style efforts since it’s incredibly cost-effective, especially if the buildling site is located in a place with building codes that allow for Nebraska-style/load-bearing wall design. Actually, I’m planning on building one in a few years so I’m really just hoping for a super sweet materials hookup

powplz
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:22 pm: [report]

@GreenAura - try gardening up here and then tell me how that’s going to save the country

GreenAura
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:23 pm: [report]

@ *sam*: I want to stop you before you respond to my latest above post. I know that idea would only look good on paper, unfortunately! Just me living in a fantasy…

_jsw_
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:26 pm: [report]

@GreenAura: It’s a good thing you don’t run the country, then. Forcing everyone to be responsible for their own food production would eliminate economies of scale, destroy any hope of urban living, and result in not only massive starvation but also a decline into pre-industrial society. Your plan assumes amounts of arable land that simply do not exist in the majority of the country. The borders might contain enough land to allow perhaps 20-40 million people to exist. Also, of course, any large scale transportation of water, electricity, supplies, etc. would go away, since those who survived would be spending almost all of their time in the pursuit of growing and harvesting enough food to survive.

GreenAura
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:27 pm: [report]

@ joyy: I know where you live!! Your constant winter frost/defrost makes for terrible gardening conditions. Like I said, my fantasy is really only good on paper. But what pretty paper it is!

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:30 pm: [report]

Pretty paper covered in rainbows and unicorns.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:32 pm: [report]

This has turned out to be the craziest comment thread ever.

powplz
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:32 pm: [report]

@GreenAura - I know, that’s why I made the commente, heh. It’s already in the 40s at night here. Don’t get me wrong, I love it, but my tomato plants are just ... depressing. At least my herbs are doing ok… so far. It’s the only thing I truly don’t like up here.

GreenAura
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:33 pm: [report]

@ _jsw_ : It’s definitely for the best that I don’t run this country. My idea was for saving the planet, but I never mentioned saving humanity. That in itself is a whole different ballgame

_jsw_
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:40 pm: [report]

@GreenAura: Sure, if you care about the animals and the plants and the microbes and the landscape and all that, fine. But me? I want my theFrisky.com access. Screw the animals and the plants and the microbes and the landscape. I need to know what’s up with the next Twilight movie.

GreenAura
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 04:43 pm: [report]

@ _jsw_: Well, everyone has their passions. Mine is eco-responsibility. Yours is teenage vampires. Different strokes for different folks!

fallonthecity
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 05:34 pm: [report]

@Jessica: Yeah, the press release is ten times worse than the billboard. Women are “reminded” about their “thunder thighs” and “balloon belly” and how unsightly those things are—it’s just them tapping into the diet obsession to further their cause, but… damn, stuff like this can be unsettling. I like my friendly local Humane Society *much* better than these guys.

nutmeghan
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 08:56 pm: [report]

this makes me sick. peta is always so sensitive about anyone even hinting at eating/wearing animals in their advertisements, and yet somehow it’s okay for them to blatantly make fun of larger women in theirs? filthy hypocrites.

Jill
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 10:43 pm: [report]

I hate PETA’s way of thinking. Save the animals, but screw all humans! You have to have respect for all living things, not just the furry/scaly/feathery ones.

resullins
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 08:13 am: [report]

@sam: You’d think. But frankly, that’s a LOT of damn straw! Trust me, I’ve had to help bail it! And that’s only on one small, family-owned farm. I can’t IMAGINE what would happen if we had all the straw from all over the world! WOW! We’d all have to build our houses with straw. But then what would happen to all the brick-makers or the siding guys? Crap! Too many dominos. Good thing they’re not going to outlaw eating meat any time soon! Pheewwww….

I Go To 11
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 08:36 am: [report]

Ugh, PETA is ridiculous. I can’t stand their tactics or their rhetoric. I’d much rather support an animal rights organization like the Humane Society. At least you can see their motives are more to actually *help*, not to promote some bogus statement. PETA=selfish.

FWIW, I moved to a modified vegetarian diet and it’s helped me lose 25 lbs. However, I still eat poultry and every once in a very great while I might eat red meat, but 98% of the time I avoid beef. I’ve also got a more balanced diet that’s fairly low in fat, so I agree that moving to a vegetarian lifestyle doesn’t necessarily equate to weight loss unless you make modifications in other aspects of your diet.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 08:58 am: [report]

Good morning my biped animal friends…
The problem with PETA’s rhetoric is that it promotes vegetarianism for the wrong reasons. If people become vegetarian to lose weight, and find out, shock, that it doesn’t work for them, then they might just try going on the Atkins Diet instead. One step forward, two steps back.
There are valid reasons to stop eating meat or at least reduce your consumption of it which have little if nothing to do with your waistline. Those include reducing animal suffering, reducing factory farm runoff and waste (resullins, I see you grew up on quite the bucolic setting, but most farms sadly are not like this), and reducing greenhouse gases. Also, there are proven health benefits like lower risk of heart disease and certain types of cancer. If you lose a few pounds, then great, but really, whatever. Who cares.
Reconsider your views on non-human animals (we are animals too, you know). I have never met a person who believed non-human animals should have more rights than human animals. All animals should have certain rights… the right to live without fear, without torture, without pain. Reconsider the ways we treat farm animals… would you treat a cat or dog that way? Probably not. No one is saying a cow needs to be able to vote or that a cat should be able to go to university. But I believe that every animal has a right to a life free from inflicted suffering (and if slaughterhouses could come up with a way to kill without pain, then I might eat meat… and jsw, I would eat that yummy lab meat fo sho!)
I know that talking about meat brings up some deeply embedded psychological and cultural issues. But please, you are all smart people, people who believe in an idea which was once, and still is, in some circles, considered ridiculously unnatural. That idea is feminism. Some say animal liberation is the next great social movement. Don’t let the antics of one silly, bloated, and out of control organization like PETA deter you from learning more about the vegetarian lifestyle.

BlueVibe
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 11:01 am: [report]

We’re way past people being able to be responsible for their own food production. What about the billions of people who live in city apartments? Are they supposed to grow everything in window boxes? How about those of us who don’t live in lovely, agriculture-friendly, temperate climates, or in environments with rich soil? And are we willing to put severe restrictions on family size until we get the world population down to where it can realistically be supported this way (because, like it or not, that would have to happen)?

I’m all for improving conditions for food animals, but I’m no vegetarian and I think PETA are wackos, and I think the tactics they use are sexist and crass.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 11:54 am: [report]

And I’m all for improving conditions for women, but I’m no feminist… I’m all for improving conditions for people of all races, but I’m no opponent of racism. I’m all for stopping global warming, but I’m no environmentalist…
Why do people think vegetarian is such a dirty word?

GreenAura
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 03:27 pm: [report]

@ brandy: The majority of people (in general) usually dislike something they don’t understand, and I think maybe vegetarian/veganism falls into that category. I’m not a vegetarian, but I would say 75% of my meals are. And I take special care to budget for organic produce because it is important to me. My family, however, thinks that I’m crazy. They think “organic” and “veganism” are components of a new age cult or something. They honestly believe that hormones and pesticides are necessary because the FDA wouldn’t allow them if they weren’t. ((GASP!))

But I do have one issue with people becomming vegetarian/vegan (as stated in one of my earlier comments): Many people go vegetarian to lose weight and don’t do proper research. They start buying things like Tofurkey and Garden burgers and all that jazz. But they don’t read labels!! Most soy/corn based vegan products (especially meat or cheese substitutes) are loaded with dozens of ingredients and are high in sodium. Your body will need to use more energy to process many of these products, so maybe a “clean burning” protein like salmon would be a better choice for someone doing it for weight loss purposes. Or at least try to purchase items with 10 or less ingredients (the only acceptable ingredients beyond 10 should be herbs and spices).

resullins
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 03:36 pm: [report]

@brandy: I’ll offer another perspective. I’m not saying that all carnivores think exactly like I do, but this is how I feel. I tend to put vegetarians in the same pen with non-smokers, a lot of Christians, and hybrid drivers. They judge. Yes, I realize that my boyfriends truck is causing a hole in the ozone, but I don’t want to buy a Prius cause they’re PC, so don’t give me that look when I pull into the gas station. Yes, I realize that smoking is TERRIBLE… but I play APA, and spend a lot of time in bars. I enjoy it and I’m not ready to quit. But people that come in to a bar sit there and star at me like I’m clubbing a lamb! I’m not smoking in your gym, why are you being healthy in my bar! And Christians, yes, a LOT of them are great people, and a LOT of them are the biggest judgers you’ll ever meet.

Vegetarians strike the same cord with me. They seem like they have that holier-than-though mantra that truly gets me riled up. I know that cows are animals, and shoulf have rights. I know sausage is clogging my arteries. I know that there are little Japanese men poaching the hell out of the Atlantic to bring me my sushi… But no matter what you say, meat is a part of my diet. I like it, I believe in moderation it is healthy, and I’m not going to stop.

I know that all of them aren’t like this… but don’t ever tell a vegetarian that eating meat is not ALWAYS the devil.

*sam*
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 03:53 pm: [report]

@resullins: >_< oh no!! please don’t remind me a/b the little Japanese men poaching the waters for my sushi!!! it makes so hard to enjoy my Philly roll!! and I LOVE my Philly roll & shrimp sauce!!!

resullins
wrote on August 18 2009 @ 03:55 pm: [report]

P.S…. that would be the Pacific… I’m a little lysdexic!

Shriekback68
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 01:45 am: [report]

Ummm…it seems to me that everyone in this thread “knows” vegetarians who are “fat.” I call BS on that. I suppose it’s possible to be overweight and vegetarian, but as a vegetarian myself for the past 20+ years, I have yet to meet a “fat” vegetarian.

I think this is just something people like to fantasize about and parade around as “possible” without any real proof to offer.

Rationalize it all you want, but eating another animal is flat-out WRONG.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:06 am: [report]

Shriekback: Welcome Nice to have another vegetarian on the site. I think its interesting that you don’t know any fat herbivores… I do know a small handful of them. I’d show you pictures, except that they are my friends! Its easy to slide by eating packaged foods and lots of simple carbs. I am not overweight, but I work hard to keep myself that way with lots of exercise and thought into what I eat. I do, however, think I read somewhere that the percentage of overweight in vegetarians is smaller than in the general population.

I also hope you don’t mind me asking, but how long have you been a vegetarian? I agree with you that eating another animal is wrong; however, I always found it more effective to use Tom Regan’s approach and ask this question: “tell me why it is OK for you to eat meat?” and take it from there. You may be surprised at what you hear.

Resullins: I agree with you that that is the reason many people do not like vegetarians and vegetarianism. I wonder, however, how much of it is in your perception. I try not to be judgmental, and I don’t think that I have been judgmental in my posts. I’m sorry that anyone ever made you feel like you were a bad person for eating meat. While I disagree with your choices, I see them just as choices, not representative of who you are. I’m sure there are a myriad of other things we disagree about but they are no where near as important as the things on which we DO agree!
As someone said (Eleanor Roosevelt, maybe???): No one can make you feel bad without your permission.
If I made you feel uncomfortable, please do let me know. You may have noticed I’ve been commenting on posts here for about six months without mentioning that I am a vegetarian… this is the main reason why. I try not to make that a singular defining characteristic of my personality, otherwise people start assuming that I have certain attitudes which I do not. Its simply a choice I make when I sit down to eat.
People are animals and most people eat meat. I still love them. I love my father and my boyfriend and my best friend, and they all eat animals. I wish they wouldn’t, but I don’t judge them. I absolutely hate it when people apologize for eating meat in front of me: if you want to apologize to anyone, take it straight to the cow

GreenAura: You are right. A lot of that food is junk. But it can really help people who are transitioning to veg and may not be ready for making their own seitan and tofu in the kitchen It also really helps people who go veg for ethical reasons but really miss the taste of, say, buffalo wings.

ChevelleNY
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:30 am: [report]

I’ve been a vegetarian for over a year now. I never ate much meat at all, and I eventually just completely cut it out of my diet. I don’t agree with this billboard, and I think that PETA spends way too much time trying to be controversial and grab attention, ultimately alienating people rather than accomplishing anything meaningful.

But @resullins…you think that vegetarians are the ones who act holier than thou and try to tell people what to do? I don’t push my beliefs on anyone. But I once had to sit at a barbeque where the host was annoyed I would not eat a hamburger and then launched into a half hour lecture telling me how all animals - especially the ones McDonalds serves - are killed humanely, and how “people who don’t eat meat annoy him.” I’m constantly ridiculed for my decision not to eat meat, even though I remain quiet in the face of such lectures.

Sometimes I think the people who say vegetarians act “holier than thou” are just the people who really feel guilty about what they are eating and don’t want to hear about it.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:33 am: [report]

@Brandy: You have never made me feel guilty for my choices. And I truly appreciate that you respect my choices. Shreik up there, however, sounded truly judgemental up there. Eating meat is NOT wrong. Gorillas do it, spiders do it, dogs do it. It’s the people that don’t eat meat for ethical reasons, but then hold them to a lower standard. Animals have been eating animals since the dawn of time… there’s nothing at all abnormal about it. The WAY we handle them could be changed, but I do what I can for that, and that’s good enough for me.

And don’t worry, no one makes me fell bad about it. It’s just the I’m-better-than-you-because-I-don’t-eat-meat attitude that drives me up the wall!!!

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:39 am: [report]

P.S. Sorry for the TERRIBLE writing in the last post! I haven’t had my coffee yet.

<This is where _jsw_ needs to tell me how to put in a smilie that says this!

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:43 am: [report]

I hear you. Keep in mind that for many vegetarians it is a highly personal thing, and they can get mad thinking that they are the only ones who understand a sort of universal truth and that no one else gets it. So I totally get where Shreikback is coming from. It can be very frustrating/lonely being vegetarian if you let others’ habits get to you. Believe me, you and I would NOT have liked each other ten years ago when I first went vegetarian. I thought, “cool, I get this thing, that it is wrong to eat meat. Now I just have to get everyone else to understand that, too! Should be easy, right? Just tell them that what they are doing is wrong and immoral and disgusting… good idea?”
Not once has that approach been useful. I do think its wrong to eat meat and I won’t back down from that, but I try not to make others feel cornered or guilty. Like I said, there are probably some things I do which you don’t agree with, either. The kind of anger I used to feel at meat eaters wasn’t good for me, my friends, or for the animals. I prefer to use humor and logic when talking to people, not emotion. Animals cannot speak up for themselves (or not in English, you know!), so I believe they need advocates. Rage and shaming never were effective in diplomacy.

_jsw_
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:50 am: [report]

@resullins: Agreed. I have absolutely no issue with those who choose a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle. And I do have an issue with those who have an issue with them and who lecture them on how eating meat is something everyone should do.

However, likewise, I’m irked by those who claim eating other animals is “wrong” when almost every living multicellular organism on the planet survives by consuming other living organisms. I advocate humane lives and deaths of food animals (although predators in the wild show no mercy and their prey lives their lives in fear of being killed). I’d happily consume “grown” in vitro meat. I don’t consume a lot of meat, but I do like the meat I consume, and I feel no guilt over it.

But, honestly, for health reasons, I wish I could go vegan or vegetarian. But I can’t, Cows are just too tasty.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:50 am: [report]

Lord, I hate to bring this up in the middle of such a snuggly meat/veg vibe, but I must… The “animals do it, too!” was never a good justification for eating meat. In every other situation, “acting like an animal” has been considered very poor behaviour! Animals also rape one another and eat their own babies.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:51 am: [report]

It’s lonely at the top of the food chain.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:54 am: [report]

@shreik: I agree that some people will judge you for what you choose not to eat, and what that woman did was wrong. But that doesn’t make it ok for you to judge us either. I’ve seen it first hand. But I don’t, I’m with Brandy on this one… it’s your choice, and it’s none of my business. However, it is your opinion that eating meat is wrong… just as it is mine that it’s natural and normal. I don’t feel guilty about it, but I don’t want to watch a cow getting slaughtered either. So we shall agree to disagree on the meat-eating issue, and I respect that.

And @brandy: don’t worry, you wouldn’t have liked me 10 years ago either… I was a bitch! Still am, just more well-informed!

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:57 am: [report]

@brandy: Then if animals are so much lower than us behavior-wise, why should we hold them up to a standard that means eating them is wrong? This is a wishy-washy argument here. Either they are intelligent beings worthy of respect and imitation, or they are animals, period. I don’t really believe there’s a grey area.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 08:59 am: [report]

Because we are intelligent and have a responsibility to those who are weaker than us. Just like we don’t eat Trigg Palin, though he might be really yummy. Its what sets us apart. Logic and restraint. Read “Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals and the Call to Mercy,” by Matthew Scully.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:02 am: [report]

Humanity’s true moral test, its fundamental test…consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy: animals. And in this respect humankind has suffered a fundamental debacle, a debacle so fundamental that all others stem from it.
—Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, 1984

Just like mens’ physical strength does not give them the authority to rape women, our intellectual strength should not give us authority to hurt and kill other animals for their taste.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:02 am: [report]

Dude… I’d eat Trigg Palin if cooked properly. I don’t discriminate.

Seriously though… I just don’t see how cows have a purpose if not to provide food. I’ve seen them… they do nothing! And chickens? All they do is make noise and STINK up to high heaven. This just isn’t something that I’ll ever feel bad about.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:04 am: [report]

I see… so you eat babies.

_jsw_
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:04 am: [report]

@resullins: I wish we could add images, but so far, I can’t figure out how. I’m out of town, trying to follow the site on a little Dell mini hacked to run OS X and tethered to my cell phone to avoid $10/day “internet access” charges. Grrr. I’ll be on in full capacity this weekend. Maybe I’ll poke around to see if I can figure out how.

@brandyalexander: Agreed, animals do some violent things, but not all animals. On the other hand, quite a few animals we’d consider to be docile will eat other animals. I agree with your right to decide it’s not for you, but I disagree that it is “wrong”. I’d be interested in a moral or ethical discussion of why it’s wrong, at least for lessor animals that aren’t self-aware. Even ants feel pain, but we step on them all the time. Likewise, having been around chickens and domesticated turkeys, I don’t see a much ethically wring with eating them. The turkeys, especially, seem about as self-aware as the grain they eat.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:06 am: [report]

JOKING!!!!! No baby eating! I have a bit of an odd sense of humor… apologies!

powplz
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:06 am: [report]

@resullins - dairy products and eggs.

@ShriekBack68 - weird, I know both vegetarians and VEGANS who are fat. Some are actually obese, some are just a little overweight, and most are pretty active overall and are probably just living where their genes take their shape.

powplz
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:08 am: [report]

@resullins - don’t feel bad, when I read that comment I immediately yearned for a button or link that could flag your post as in the running for the gift of gab stuff

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:08 am: [report]

@jsw: my principal reason for not eating meat has to do with the animals perception of pain. If an animal could not feel pain, or if it could die without pain, I would consider eating it. I might eat, for example, scallops or mussels. I don’t feel the need to think about it too much simply because I never really liked shellfish much, and besides, I have plenty of vegetarian food to keep my full and happy. You are onto something, though. Have you read Peter Singer?

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:09 am: [report]

@joyy: Yes, but the type of cow that provides milk are a different breed than the kinds we eat for meat… so what do we do with all the Herefords and Angus?

Same with chickens.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:10 am: [report]

resullins: i know, i was just being a jerk. it happens.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:10 am: [report]

@joyy: Awwww…. thanks!

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:13 am: [report]

Yeah, most cows are pretty useless except as a food source. I don’t fool myself into thinking that everyone will become vegetarian and that cows will be left wandering around, useless and sh*tting everywhere. I do this for me, me alone.
That being said, a creature’s usefulness has never been a prerequisite when it comes to its right to live. Case in point: Trig AND Sara.

powplz
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:13 am: [report]

@resullins - my parents raised herefords, so no need to explain the difference to me. Hypothetically, you could just stop breeding them, or you could use them as work animals.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:15 am: [report]

But Brandy says that they should still be allowed to live. Which no longer breeding them would most likely hamper. I’m confused!

@Brandy: HA! Yeah, this is where someone should jump in and stop the procreation process. You should watch Idiocracy… It actually scares me!

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:17 am: [report]

@ resullins: If it happened (and it wouldn’t) that the world became vegetarian, it would happen ever so slowly. As the demand for meat went down, farmers would stop breeding animals for slaughter.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:20 am: [report]

I understand how it would work… I was being coy… Is there a smilie for coy? Crap… stupid crappy computers tethered to phones! Where’s jsw when you need him?!?!?

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:21 am: [report]

Ah, coy. I’ve heard of that.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:23 am: [report]

Your secret’s safe with me… and every other Frisky reader. God, I hope everyone else isn’t still getting emails for all of these. I’d hate us by now!

powplz
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:23 am: [report]

@brandy - but what would you do with her? between the hair products, makeup, and insanity, I’m sure the meat wouldn’t be any good.

_jsw_
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:23 am: [report]

@brandyalexander: I haven’t read him but I’ll look him up. And I’m no fan of animals suffering and have cut back on meat for more than just health reasons. I do have vegetarian tendencies. But I can’t consider it to be wrong, just unfortunate, that animals die for us to eat, But it’s not my fault they’re so damned good.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:25 am: [report]

If God didn’t want us to eat cows, he wouldn’t have made them taste like beef.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:25 am: [report]

@ joyy: oh, just for a trophy above my (imaginary) fireplace

powplz
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:29 am: [report]

@brandy - heh, duh. what was I thinking?

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:32 am: [report]

If god didn’t want me to eat republicans and born-agains, then why did they make them out of creme brulee?
Peter Singer is amazing… check him outhttp://www.utilitarian.net/singer/
His major premise is that it is an animals ability to sense pain which makes it unacceptable to harm the animal. He is a professor of ethics at Princeton, probably the top voice for animal rights.

gloriafretz
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:33 am: [report]

I have been a vegetarian for 4 years now and actually did lose weight. 15 lbs to be exact. The reason behind this was because I started eating more fruits and vegetables throughout the day and also started eating more frequent, smaller meals. My doctor agrees that I am healthier now, no supplements needed. While I don’t agree with this billboard, I do agree that obesity is an issue in the United States. I am tired of everyone telling them that it is okay to be morbidly obese, to embrace and love it because it is beautiful. Newsflash.. It isn’t beautiful.

Hate me if you want, but if it is acceptable for us to say “smoking is gross” then when will it be okay for me to say “obesity is gross”. Because, it is. I am not a big PETA fan, I think that they tend to take it a bit too far, but maybe they have a point? Like other posters have said, it wansn’t until recently that we started eating meat at EVERY meal. Not only are we eating it more frequently, but the portions are way off too. Maybe if more people embraced the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle they would be better off. I know I am!

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:49 am: [report]

@brandy… EASY! I’m a Republican. Yup, I said it. Although I mostly believe that partisan politics are almost as retarded and inefficient as PETA.

Oh, and I most definitely don’t taste like creme brulee…

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:50 am: [report]

@resullins: haha well, good thing we only interact through the interwebs!

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:55 am: [report]

@brandy: Socially, I’m extraordinarily liberal, fiscally conservative.

But I was born female, Republican, and Southern baptist. If I don’t die two out of three of those, they won’t bury me in the family cemetary! I bet you can guess which one I got rid of first.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:56 am: [report]

@resullins: Female?

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 09:57 am: [report]

You’re funny!

Shriekback68
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 11:48 am: [report]

@Brandy: I’ve been a vegetarian for over 20 years. I wasn’t each much meat at the time, and just decided one day that it made no sense to eat animals. So I just stopped, cold turkey (no pun intended ). Within a year, my cholesterol had dropped over 100 points and I’d lost 50 pounds. Those weren’t my reasons for stopping, but they were sure a nice benefit.

Since I’ve been a vegetarian, I’ve run 10 marathons, 4 ultra-marthons, lifted weights for over 15 years and yeah…I have an honest-to-god six pack. I’m going to be 45 years old next month, too. And I’ve never felt better in my entire life. I credit almost all of this to my vegetarianism.

NOW…. on to this canard that meat-eaters keep floating: “don’t lecture me, and I won’t lecture you.” Oh REALLY?? Well, this is my own experience talking here again, but I have NEVER once lectured anyone for eating meat. Not once. And I have never heard any of my vegetarian friends lecture anyone, either. In fact, if they did they wouldn’t be my friend.

BUT…I have had DOZENS of meat eaters lecture ME for not eating meat! Calling me names, making me the butt of jokes, sneering at me…the whole gamut of insults. Seems to me that it’s the MEAT eaters who are doing the lecturing, not the other way around! Why be so defensive about eating meat that you need to rip on a vegetarian for making a different choice?? Could it be that deep down you feel your choice to eat meat is wrong?? Just a thought.

Go ahead and eat meat, I won’t get up from the table and walk away. I won’t look down on you. I won’t lecture you. But if you ASK me why I’m a vegetarian, I will be happy to tell you…in a calm, reasonable, logical manner.

Be nice to me and don’t bash me for my choices. We need less fighting in this world.

Okay, done rambling.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 11:51 am: [report]

@Shriekback68: You are what you eat, so you’re certainly not a cow.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 12:14 pm: [report]

@shriek: We have VERY different experiences then. Even some of the comments here are soapbox-y. And I never bashed you… so don’t get on your high horse about meat-eaters being lecturers. I’m not. Most of the people I know are not. We’ll go back to snuggly now, or else Brandy’s going to post kitten pictures!

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 12:24 pm: [report]

<3 you shriekback, but might I suggest some new friends if your friends treat you so poorly?
I find that good food and a hot bod is the best response for anyone who lectures me for my diet.

Shriekback68
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 12:37 pm: [report]

Resullins: I’m not on my “high horse.” I’m simply addressing some of the posts in this thread, and it seemed like a relevant thing to note. Stop being so defensive. Sheesh.

Shriekback68
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 12:38 pm: [report]

Brandy: good point. And I always stop hanging out with people who treat me poorly. I’m no glutton for punishment.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 12:43 pm: [report]

I’m not being defensive… apologies if I seemed that way. But my experiences are much different from yours. And you seemed to lump people into two categories, the vegetarians that never lecture, and the evil meat-eaters that try to force you to eat barbecue! It seemed a little too far-sweeping to me. I don’t like being painted with brushes meant for others, as I’m sure you don’t. That’s why in my comments I was careful to say that I know not all vegetarians are judgemental, but in my experience some of them are. Thank you for being one of the not judgemental ones.

Shriekback68
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 01:06 pm: [report]

I never painted you with any “brush.” I was simply relating my own experience IRL. And I hardly believe meat eaters to be “evil.” I don’t think my family is evil, nor do I think my friends who choose to eat meat are evil. I’m trying to categorize, so I apologize if I came off that way. This is just my own experience.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 01:44 pm: [report]

All I know is that all meat eaters are obese.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 01:45 pm: [report]

and all vegetarians are communist.

resullins
wrote on August 19 2009 @ 01:52 pm: [report]

@Brandy: here here… if you’re gonna discriminate… discriminate against EVERYONE. That’s the only way to be fair!

erikasf
wrote on August 20 2009 @ 06:50 pm: [report]

Dear PETA: I ate bacon today! Suck it!

brandyalexander
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:32 am: [report]

And that is what Shriekback is talking about. Thanks for the beautiful example.

painted_lady
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 03:03 pm: [report]

Hate to jump into this hotbed of debate, but here’s my two cents:

My boyfriend is vegan, whereas I eat anything, which has caused some setbacks in our relationship. When we were first dating he would occasionally make these arrogant side comments about meat, or McDonald’s, or some restaurant near the Starbucks by his house with its “*$#%ing charred animal stench.” I finally got fed up and pointed it out to him, and he had no idea what an arrogant tool he came off as. He said he didn’t mean it like that, but whether he meant it or not, he was coming across as a sanctimonious ass. So, and this is not to come down on anyone commenting, it’s kind of across the board for all the vegans, vegetarians, and omnivores on here, be careful when you say you don’t judge anyone, because I definitely felt judged.

Also, it’s really unfortunate, but I’ve finally had to stop eating out with my bf so much. I just don’t like the food. I wish I did, but with the exception of a couple of dishes at a couple of restaurants, I would say that “loathe” is probably an appropriate word. I honestly got to where I was dreading eating dinner because it meant I was going to have to look at a menu where nothing sounded appetizing, I’d have to grit my teeth and smile, and order the least repellent thing on the menu. I’ve learned to cook vegan foods, and I really like most of the stuff I fix, but unfortunately it takes a whole lot of time since most things have to be made specially, plus doing that on a regular basis would cost more money than I have.

Also, and this is sort of a socially learned behavior, but I was taught that you take the food that is offered to you and say thank you. To mince words about ingredients and likes and dislikes is just plain rude the way I was raised, right or wrong (I remember getting the look of death from my mother at four or so just for asking my grandmother if there was pepper in the broccoli; the family nearly fell apart five years later when my brother was born with a milk allergy…my mom kept busting my grandfather trying to feed him ice cream, and he’d get mad when she’d say he couldn’t have any). I consider myself really openminded about most things, but food has always been so automatic to me I didn’t even stop to think that I might have some hangups there. It took me nine months with my boyfriend - and even these days I have to remind myself - to realize he’s not being intentionally impolite. A lot of people, I’m sure, react the same way I did, without even realizing it. It was never intentional with the bf, it was just the first few times I cooked for him and he was checking the ingredients on all the packages and told me he couldn’t eat this, that or the other, my gut reaction was, “I’m sorry, you’re supposed to shut up, eat it, say thank you, what do you mean you won’t eat this?” It was insensitive, I know, but being from a good southern family who indoctrinated me to believe that food=love, rejection of food was…well…ouch.

SamanthaSugar
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 05:23 pm: [report]

Being a vegetarian I know it’s even harder to stay thin sometimes. Unless your totally vegan and are on a macrobiotic diet then its hard to stay thin eating meat or not. Soy has been proven to be much fattier than lean meats like chicken or some fish. Then the other substitutes aren’t that appetizing such as Seitan, http://meggomae.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/seitan-package.jpg, which can never taste good unless you have perfected the art of cooking it. Then there’s my friend tempeh, http://www.changetovegan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/tempeh.jpg, which I haven’t had the guts to try yet. Nonetheless PETA was being rude with their facts (as they always do) to push people into becoming vegetarians. Instead of enforcing it, they make people scared of it, or even worse, used to it. I remember as a highschooler all of us knew where meat was from but didn’t care, a PETA spokesperson had come to our school one day to talk to us about it too. He had shown us a video of cows being killed and then after asked all of us if we wanted a cheeseburger. I was the only one who said no, because I already was a vegetarian, however the rest of the class enjoyed their cheeseburger as much as they would have if they didn’t see the video.

Kat
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:21 pm: [report]

This ad pisses me off. Considering how many hefty veggies and skinny as hell meat eaters I know, adding the fact that PeTA sure loves it’s sexist ads with half naked “acceptable weight” women, I’m inclined to think PeTA doesn’t love animals as much as it hates women.
And this is coming from a pescetarian with a vegetarian boyfriend!

aries3_04
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 01:54 pm: [report]

“A balanced vegetarian diet includes lots of protein from sources like beans and nuts, and iron can come from dark, leafy greens like kale and swiss chard.
I am not telling you or anyone else you have to go vegetarian. But we should consider reducing the amount of meat we eat as a society.”

What a luxury we have as coming from a developed nation to have the choice to be vegetarian…Swiss chard? I can’t even afford that. I’ve lived in rural West Africa and please be minded that not everyone in the world has access to vegetarian options. A supposed vegetarian diet in Ghana could include corn, gari, rice, carrots, coconut, and cabbage. Period. There is such a lack of access to food and medical care, and little opportunity to make a whole lot of $$ that some will take what they find behind their home (a chicken for example).

Check out some of the food pantries in the poorest neighborhoods in say, Chicago or Detroit; people are too busy thinking about when they will have their next meal and will take what they can get rather than thinking about ethics (think Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs here).

Until PETA and some of these other groups realize that vegetarianism is often a middle/upper-middle class thing and reach out to diverse groups of people, they won’t be making the most effective impact.

I hear what people are saying - I don’t eat a lot of meat myself. But as for PETA and other groups criticizing people because they eat meat? Screw ‘em.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 08:43 am: [report]

Aries: Beans are about the most notoriously cheap food there is. I wasn’t addressing people in rural West Africa. Please don’t extrapolate. If you have a computer on which to type your comments, you can afford some effing kale.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 08:53 am: [report]

And seriously, the rest of you (or the majority of you), I don’t know how or why you are feeling judged by a woman who is miles away from you and is measuring her every word as to not make other people feel guilty or bad. Maybe you need to reevaluate where those feelings are coming from. And if you don’t like vegan food, that is fine, but no need to trash it and call it disgusting. I don’t trash your food, and you are the ones quite literally eating dead bodies.
This is my last post on this thread. I am out of energy. If anyone wants to take this up with me, please just send me a private message. Thanks to those of you (jsw, resullins) who were able to discuss this maturely even when my opinions differed from your own.

erikasf
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 02:18 pm: [report]

PETA’s billboard and notorious sexism inspired my friend Elaine and I to do a video. I think it is hysterical!
http://2girls1queen.tumblr.com/post/170633507/petasucks

Note to other posters on this thread: I think some of you didn’t get my “I ate bacon today” joke from earlier. For the record: I LOVE and ADMIRE vegetarians. Though I still eat meat myself, I agree going vegan is the best way to live. It is the overt sexism of PETA that I object to. It is PETA’s sexist ads that I was making fun of, not vegetarians.

aries3_04
wrote on August 29 2009 @ 08:04 pm: [report]

you still missed my point.It’s obvious I wasn’t talking about myself personally. And beans are available in some parts of the world. But I’m gonna grab some bacon

resullins
wrote on August 29 2009 @ 10:30 pm: [report]

@painted lady… I agree with you. It’s not when they point at you and say “you’re a dirty killer,” it’s when they do it inadvertantly. The way they act is far more telling than what they say. And I know it works the same way for omnivores.

I lived with a Vegan my Freshman year of college. She was, however, one of the ones that never once judged me. In fact, it was handy… she never ate my food! But I’ve also been around the vegetarians that watch you eat as if they’re watching you skin a baby whale.

I think the main difference is that most meat-eaters just consider vegetarians and vegans wierd. We may not understand them, but most of us don’t think that there’s anything fundamentally wrong with them. But most vegans and vegetarians think that eating meat is wrong. Morally. Ethically. Wrong. So there’s more judgment in that direction. That’s the way I see it. I know there are exceptions on both sides. But that’s the way it’s always looked to me.

And for the record, I still don’t believe that the majority of people can get all the sustinance they need without eating meat. I could be totally wrong… and that’s a good possibility, but I truly believe it would screw up the world.