Raising A Child Without A Gender: Do Or Don’t?

Ginger
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 11:45 am: [report]

The first thing that popped into my head was the baby from ‘Eraserhead’. Because the mother only refers to the baby as ‘it’ as there is no distinguishable sex.

However, the child in question here has a physical sex. You made a point that they will find this out sooner or late. It might take until their first middle school health class (or whenever they start teaching these things in Sweden) or it might take until the kid is four and a game of ‘let’s not wear clothes’ happens (because children also aren’t aware of society’s views of nudity, so they’ll do that).

I think that the key to not having your child have social/gender pressures put on them is to not teach them about it. If it’s a girl and she asks for a baseball mitt so she can sign up for the Little League team, buy her the mitt and take her to the field instead of saying ‘That’s what boys do’. If it’s a boy and he asks why he can’t wear pretty dresses like the girl next door, you go out and buy him the prettiest damn dress in the store instead of saying ‘Well, boys just can’t wear dresses’.

Gender may be a social construct, but children learn these things at home before they learn them from the world.

Riley
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 11:46 am: [report]

Looks like they are so self-absorbed in their “ideals” that they’ll use an unwilling participant to try and prove a point.  You don’t have to force the stereotypical behavior on a child, but gender isn’t a designation by culture.  Let the child do/be whatever he/she wants, but you can’t put the enlightened “feminist” notion in lieu of biological fact. 

I say unwilling participant because in 20 years when this kid is grown up and in some serious therapy from this little social experiment, he/she will likely wish it hadn’t happened.

Goldfinch86
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 12:09 pm: [report]

I completely agree with you Riley, he/she might end up having a few/alot of problems when puberty hits and they realize they are a boy or a girl. I think puberty will be that child’s most painful time, at that point they will know that boys are men and girls are women and will be forced through peer pressure and self needs to take a side. Infact i think if the parents are still forcing this upon that child it would almost be like mental abuse. Young children often yearn to be male or female and figure out roles and copy mom and dad, this child is going to have serious issues. The childs biological instincts will kick in not to mention the peer pressure that “it” will be under at school when “it” fails to play with dolls or trucks and at that point this whole genderless upbringing will have been pointless, not to mention a little cruel. My mother brought me up telling me I could be a cowboy or a mermaid if I wanted, I stress boy, she never told me to say cowgirl, I learned later from old-fashioned conservative grandparents that was completely incorrect and intolerable. This child will try to emulate things, most likely at a certain age it will emulate the gender it most identifies with. These parents make me sick, why can’t they just focus on raising a child girl or boy, with out the stero-types, why drag feminists into this and give the rest of us a bad name? I realize that many people feel constrained by so called “sexist” stero-types but at some point you have to say get over it and do your best not to allow that to get in the way of who you are or the respect you deserve as a human.

pennybadday
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 12:18 pm: [report]

I’m totally down for raising children without gender bias (exposing him or her to all different toy/clothing/activity options and not trying to pressure them into being masculine or feminine) but I think this is a bit extreme. I believe in knowledge about bodies and what having a certain body means. Sex isn’t something that should be hidden, even if it’s not the most important aspect of who someone is, it’s definitely a part of it.

GreenAura
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 12:33 pm: [report]

I think the kid is going to have a complex over the fact that everyone else in school has a gender identity and “it” does not.  The parents should talk to a transgendered individual so they can grasp how confusing and traumatic it is to not be able to associate yourself with either.  How about this for a social experiment: why not just let your child be who and what they want. If they wanna wear a dress and play with dolls, so be it and likewise if they wanna play with Mack trucks and wear a baseball cap.  These parents are no different than parents that “force” gender because they are also forcing an ideal upon their child.

Goldfinch86
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 12:41 pm: [report]

Green Aura I totally agree with that they are no different than those that enforce gender roles, I didn’t want to go into the transgendered argument because I felt that some might say that it’s not as valid but really it’s similar when the childs basic psychology becomes something different than the norm and it no longer knows what sex it belongs to or what others think it should be. I think that at some point it will have many problems mainly associated with transgendered people.

Mainer
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 12:50 pm: [report]

Does Pat from SNL pop into anyone else’s mind?

The only point these idiots are going to prove is that this is a terrible idea. Raising a kid to go against the societal grain is teaching him to always go against the societal grain. He’ll grow up neglecting standards that guide our society, he won’t feel any remorse or regret for doing things we consider wrong, such as sleeping with children or killing other beings. He’ll become the post-child for a sociopath. This kid is going to hate his life and everyone else’s life because it’s parents are too idealistically liberal to get out of their own way by refusing to be constrained by the restrictions of this world. Societal standards exist for a reason. Though their intentions may be nobel, they really need a swift slap to the head.

Jessica Wakeman
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 12:58 pm: [report]

@Carrie

I would never conduct this “experiment” on my own kid, but I think their heart is in the right place. Calling their child “Pop” and not telling other people the child’s gender is pretty extreme.

But I can completely understand wanting to shield your kid from the type of conditioning that happens in regards to gender. 

But perhaps if the parents had just told their friends “Please don’t tell our daughter she is pretty, please tell her she is smart” or they’d just bought both dolls AND trucks for the kid to play with, that would have sufficed!

zoogrrl
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 01:04 pm: [report]

Um…how will “it” know which bathroom to use? What happens if she’s a girl, and gets her period someday? How will “it” know locker room to go to in gym class? Which health class does “it” belong in - boys or girls?

Poor thing.

PinkRanger
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 01:10 pm: [report]

@mainer: whoa now, gender norms have NOTHING to do with morals so implying that if this child knows it’s ok to go against gender norms, he’ll molest children and murder is completely uncalled for.

I had mixed feelings about this when I first read about it a few days ago…...on the one hand, you should encourage your child to seek out their own gender identity and never allow their biological sex to define who they are, or what they want from life, but psychologically, gender identity is a huge factor in personal identity. I just feel they may be pushing their child into alienation. I would love to hear about a follow up on this in a few years.

Mainer
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 01:14 pm: [report]

gender roles are largely guided by societal roles. We have societal norms that say boys do this and girls do this. This turns into gender roles. You’d be surprised how closely those two are.

PinkRanger
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 01:24 pm: [report]

@Mainer:what does that have to do with little Pop over here growing up to be a pedophile and a murderer…........? What makes you think their parents won’t teach them the difference between right and wrong? Pretty judgemental, implying that it is inherently “wrong” to go against gender norms.

Mainer
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 01:27 pm: [report]

because any parents who raise there kid teaching them that conforming to the roles of society and of gender is wrong, the kid is going to grow up with that thought process. i’m not saying its parents are going to encourage anti-social behavior, but i am saying that it will be a bi-product of this sort of upbringing

snap
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 01:34 pm: [report]

i agree 100% with the author.  there ARE sexual differences, no matter how much of a social construct gender is.

PinkRanger
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 01:59 pm: [report]

@Mainer: I’m not in full agreement with what these parents are doing either, but it’s farfetched to make those assumptions. Anti-social behavior doesn’t necessarily lead to violence or sociopathic tendencies either…....I’m just saying that you’re being overly dramatic and extremely judgemental here by making claims like that.

Mainer
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 02:08 pm: [report]

I’m not making predictions or saying that this is for sure going to happen. The examples I used are of the upmost extreme, I agree - but that was mainly to make my point. Anti-social behavior tends to lead to anti-social behavior, which includes many things, even violence. It’s not a certainty, but it certainly increases the risk. When a person acts in anti-social behavior, they generally do not have respect for authority or constricting guidelines. People who disregard these things are less likely to care what others think of them, and more likely to do things to either a) prove some point, or b) because they can.

I’ll agree, the examples I used were extreme and are in no way a prediction of the resulting behavior of this upbringing, but it is certainly increasing the odds just to prove a point to the world. Such points should be made by publishing papers, going to rallies, and being vocal. NOT by using your own child as a lab rat for the alleged betterment of society.

writergirl
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 02:08 pm: [report]

Even if “Pop” doesn’t know what gender s/he is, there have been plenty of studies to show that even at an early age, there are specific gender-inherit traits that come through.  The easiest example of that is putting babies who can crawl in a room full of trucks and dolls.  Boy babies prefer the tucks, girl babies prefer the dolls.  They did the same with chimps, and the results were the same—boy chimps took the trucks, girl chimps took the dolls.

So while “Pop” may not have been told what s/he is, most likely if it is a boy, he will tend to be more agressive, have more energy and shorter attention spans.  If it is a girl, she will tend to be more dramatic, play with dolls, be more quiet in her play and mature at a quicker rate.  these are fundamental differences between girls and boys that has been documented ad nauseam—there is no getting around it.  Girls/boys will also tend to want to dress a certain way, even if you don’t start dressing her in pink and him in t-shirts with trucks. 

So, “Pop” will find her gender regardless of her parents’ wack-job ideas.

And the other thing is—the schools won’t let this stand (assuming they don’t homeschool)because “it” WILL need to chose what bathroom to go to, it WILL be obvious to even a three year old what “It” is and the other children will treat/abuse “Pop” accordingly.

And yes, I do think parents have a right to raise their kids anyway they want, but you have to account for the fact that some of your actions will get your kid tossed over the volleyball net at recess, and that’s NOT right to do to your kid.  As a parent, you are supposed to protect them, not create a situation where they will be nothing but tormented.

nire32
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 02:17 pm: [report]

As weird as this may sound, this doesn’t surprise me to hear that this is happening in Sweden.  In terms of gender roles, Sweden is the most “gender neutral” country in the world.  And after spending six months in the country for work, I’ve experienced this first-hand. 

Personality-wise, women tend to be more “masculine” and men tend to be more “feminine” (based on the American cultural definitions of those terms). There is a mentality that anything anything one gender can do, the other can do equally as well - which i believe is 100% true, however, they often completely disregard that there ARE gender differences. 

For example, in Sweden, men will not hold the door open for a woman because it implies that she can’t do it herself. (swedish women often get very offended by this.) If you’re a guy and go to a bar in Sweden, you’ll be in heaven because the women will be approaching you, while if you’re a girl, you’re out of luck - guys rarely make the first move. 

Yes, these are very basic examples, but are indicative of the gender roles… seems that Pop’s parents are extreme products of Swedish culture and society. 

p.s. there are some great things about the gender equality in Sweden, though… after a couple has a baby, the parents together have 18 months of maternity/paternity leave to split between them. would be nice, eh?

Mainer
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 02:18 pm: [report]

oh i’ll bet my middle nut the kid is home schooled. The parents are going to be too scared it will be influenced by the evil-doers we call society to let it leave the house.

PinkRanger
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 02:18 pm: [report]

@writergirl: can you give me a link to those studies? just for personal knowledge.

writergirl
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 02:26 pm: [report]

I didn’t read the study, I saw a show on it on the discovery channel.  But here are synopsis of the studies I believe the show was based on. 

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-12/tau-tca121002.php

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-prefer-boys-toys.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6956467.stm

and another more recent on on the color preference thing.http://people.howstuffworks.com/gender-color.htm

emflow
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 02:33 pm: [report]

I’m really not so sure about this assumption that Pop won’t know his/her gender. Kids are aware of differences fairly early and I don’t see haven’t seen anything about the parents sequestering Pop to keep this from happening.

Chances are Pop will gravitate toward one gender, particularly once Pop is regularly around groups of other gender-assigned children. And I haven’t seen anything about Pop’s parents forching Pop not to make gender-specific choices. The article that this article links to says that Pop has stereotypically male and female clothing, and chooses what to wear on any given day. So, as far as I’m concerned they aren’t denying anything essential to Pop’s nature or forcing Pop not to assume a gender roll.

retro chic
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 03:27 pm: [report]

Terrible. Do these parents even love their child? I don’t think so, ‘cause they’re setting him/her up (not buying into the “it” bit) for certain maladjustment and unhappiness for a lifetime. It is so counter-intuitive and counter-productive since this child will not be properly prepared for the world on any level, at any stage—emotional security and preparation, the purpose of parenting, I thought. A person’s gender ID, imo, is at the core sense of self. If the parents want to teach him/her about choices, then that’s a better route. Then everyone’s enlightened by a secure human being, not a maladjusted freak who will surely backfire mom and dad’s schizoid plan. Poor kid.

ps: there is nothing “feminist” about their approach—in fact, it is anti-feminist, devoid of choices. They hijacked a word that has nothing to do with what they’re doing and is offensive.
——-
Tho diff somewhat, I recall a case where the infant boy’s penis was lopped during circumcision. He was also one in a set of twin boys—someone may recall this with better detail. So they hauled in some child psychiatrist who was investigating gender ID and decided this boy would be prime material for his gender ID switch experiment, ie, the parents would raise him as a girl. It didn’t work and the boy suffered terribly growing up as a girl.

Like I said, this is somewhat different, but it makes the point that playing social-science-god with something as basic and innate as gender ID will certainly eff-up a child’s head—up to, and including, attempted suicide. That said, I don’t think this will last, not even into Kindergarten. Shameful.

writergirl
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 05:30 pm: [report]

@retro chic—I did hear about that case you mentioned.  That too was on the Discovery Channel.  Which proves the point—you can’t force a child to be gender neutral.

Even hermaphrodites will tend to go allign more closely with one gender over the other.  Gender is innate.

tomato
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 05:59 pm: [report]

there is nothing in my genes that made me want barbies when i was young and there is nothing in my brother’s genes that made him like dinosaurs. that is gender as a social construction. i think that maybe if everyone was raised as an “it”, or at least without such strong pressures to conform to socially constructed ideas of gender, people would feel more free. maybe pop will be maladjusted, or maybe s/he will grow up to be a strong human being with a clearer idea of what gender means than all of us.

i can identify with these parents’ frustrations. i do strongly believe that parents must teach their children about the superficial gender roles that ooze out of every form of media, as well as peer and social influence.

even as i sit here writing this, i hear the housewives of new jersey in the background talking about how they must raise their daughters to know how to cook, clean, and take care of a husband. not so! a woman must know that she has choices, just like men. she should not feel any more pressure than a man to have a child, she should not feel she must choose between raising children and having a career, she should not feel it is her responsibility to cook, clean, or shop. i wish i lived in a world where people are not indoctrinated from birth, trained to be one gender or another. there’s no way to keep cultural ideas about gender away from a child but at least this couple is trying.

loveitlala
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 06:07 pm: [report]

Writergirl is 100% right, or at least, this is exactly what they teach us in medical school.

loveitlala
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 06:14 pm: [report]

But I’m sure it’s a bit biology a bit environment since doctor’s have no idea what the phrase “social construct” means.

Leo
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 07:20 pm: [report]

I was raised by an early feminist mother; nothing radical, just open-minded.  I emerged into early adulthood thinking much like this couple - that gender is largely a social construct.  Then I took a job teaching preschool and boy did I ever find out I was wrong.  Little boys and girls behave very similarly through about age 3, but by four years old they are like night and day and there is no turning back.  As has been said, males and females have identical brains but are on different drugs.  Those drugs, estrogen and testosterone, make a difference, one that cannot be changed by wishful thinking about societies shortcomings.  These parents are going to raise a pretty mixed up kid if they don’t change course.  They should concentrate on equality of opportunity rather than equality of biology.  I have since raised my own teenage girl and two boys and found that what I learned with 100 preschoolers rang true with these three.  As for my daughter, I’d rather her be a well adjusted, confident and secure real woman than the screwed up byproduct of my well-meaning ignorance and vanity.  This ain’t about YOU parents, it’s about your daughter(s).

Kati-Anne
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 07:44 pm: [report]

Along the same lines of what retro chic was saying, parents of infants born with inter-sex conditions where the genitalia was deemed ambiguous by the doctor were often forced to choose in the delivery room as to whether they would raise their child as a boy or a girl so the ‘appropriate’ surgery could be performed. Of course, the parents, not having a crystal ball in which to view the future, did not always make the right decision, the evidence being that their child identified with the opposite gender that had been chosen for them (often ‘girls’ who had small, deformed penises removed at birth). So in your face gender-is-100%-a-social-costruct-ers!
Also, to the parents of Pop: Good luck finding fine literature for your child to read.
And to Pop: Please have lots of fun when you rebel against your parents by becoming the most cartoony gender stereotype on the planet for a few years!

retro chic
wrote on June 29 2009 @ 08:43 pm: [report]

@writergirl: Yeah, The Discovery Channel sounds right—thanks for the recall. And my comment was intended to concur with your pro-nature stance, but got so side-tracked by lunacy of those parents’ misguided objectives! So, yes, absolutely, you can’t “nurture” a child to become gender neutral, my point as well. “Neutral” is a far cry from neutralize, what that couple is tragically doing here.

For those that have any doubt about what forces will win—nature vs. nurture in gender ID issues: 
1. The boy’s (David Reimer’s) bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer
or
2. Another primer and perspective, written prior (2001) to the boy’s death 2004:
http://www.epinions.com/review/As_Nature_Made_Him_The_Boy_Who_Was_Raised_as_a_Girl_by_John_Colapinto_and_narrated_by_Adam_Henderson/content_31509024388

3. The book: As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who was Raised as a Girl, by John Colapinto.
ps: His suicide attempts were successful after all, RIP.

@Leo, agree 100%, and very common sense, to me. I think life is hard enough without trying to play god with our children’s hormones and lives. Socialize the choices, instead.

betty123
wrote on June 30 2009 @ 08:43 am: [report]

In the grander scheme of things, who is to say that simply because gender is a social construct, that it is cruel to identify your child with a gender? And that being said, there is definitely confusion about the difference between gender and biological sex. Biological sex is definitely not a societal construct. It is engrained in your DNA. You are XX or XY. And there are certain biological factors that go along with being born into that specific chromosome combo. Granted certain environmental and physical conditions can lead someone to identify with the gender they were born into or the opposite gender. It seems to me that the absence of any indication of gender roles that are in some part based on biological sex that one is born with is actually more cruel. We live in a world where gender roles are seen in several animal species. Hell, you even see them in plant species. To deny a child the opportunity to live out a role that they were born for is inherently cruel. You are forcing a child to choose a gender for itself when it doesn’t even know what gender is or what life will hold for it going against the traditional gender norms. It isn’t fair that the child will be ridiculed but that is the reality. One that the child didn’t ask for. It borders on abuse if you ask me.

Symian
wrote on June 30 2009 @ 05:53 pm: [report]

I’m glad I read this, I’ve never really considered this before.  People thought I was crazy when I got a ton of blue (my favorite color) things for my daughter when she was born.  I thought that it would be unfair to put her in just pink or yellow, and since that’s what everyone else got her I got what I liked.

I think that it’s important to clue a child in on their sex for simple reasons like teaching them hygiene and helping them understand that one day they are going to grow up to be a man or a woman.  I also agree that it is important for children to learn where and how they fit in at an early age.  People aren’t kidding when they say that children are cruel.  I still have some issues today from when I was teased as a child, but it seems it would be worse (as an adult) if those issues were connected to my gender and sexuality.  They would probably come into play when trying to be in a relationship.

However, I do wonder what would be the best way to deal with it if perhaps the issue of non-specific (??), dual,  or incomplete genitalia is involved.

_jsw_
wrote on July 2 2009 @ 07:45 am: [report]

From the linked article:

“But with a second child on the way, Pop’s parents have no plans to change what they see as a winning formula. As for Pop, they say they will only reveal the child’s sex when Pop thinks it’s time.”

I think the parents are trying out a social experiment and probably courting attention and, likely, trying to encourage discussion. I’d be surprised if Pop even made it to 5 without thinking it’s time to reveal his/her gender.

On topic, I’m a big fan of introducing children to toys of all types, but I’m opposed to _only_ offering them “gender neutral” ones. I prefer to let them play with what they want to play with, and they’ve been given various toys to try out. I think it’s a great idea to introduce kids to all sorts of activities and ways to dress and ways to play, but I also think it’s wrong to actively discourage “gender-appropriate-as-dictated-by-society” activities. I’ve known people who wouldn’t ever get their girls dolls, for example, because it “gave the wrong signal”. I disagree.

Infamous
wrote on July 5 2009 @ 08:53 am: [report]

I really don’t understand how being without a gender role became the feminist ideal. I love being a woman, I love wearing dresses. I also love having a professional career and being the more successful partner in my relationship. When I had my daughter I knew it was imperative that she grow up with a strong female role model who didn’t let anything get in the way of getting what she wants. I didn’t take her birth as an opportunity to be anti-establishment.

Poor Pop. I don’t see how that situation is going to benefit anyone but the future therapist.

natb11
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:12 am: [report]

I think this is awesome. If I had children I would let them do what they want to do regardless of gender roles. They aren’t forcing their child be to be gender neutral. They are just giving the child the option to choose. About that stupid comment asking what bathroom Pop will choose, he/she will probably choose the one that feels most comfortable. I’m sure by the time Pop is old enough to be middle school or high school Pop will know his/her sex and gender identity. But if he/she chooses to look more like a girl I suggest using the girls bathroom to avoid harassment and the boys bathroom if he/she looks like a boy. If no one challenges gender roles then there will always be discrimination against people who do and people will always need to conform to them to avoid discrimination. Imagine how transgender people feel about gender roles. I’m sure Pop will discover his/her sex soon but that doesn’t mean Pop will choose to give into gender roles just because people say he/she should. I think some of you need to stop being so closed minded. Not everybody wants to conform to gender roles assigned to their sex.

natb11
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:34 am: [report]

The people who don’t like this are the ignorant people, not Pop’s parents. They aren’t being selfish. You are the ones being selfish if you force your children to conform to gender roles. What would you do if your child says he/she feels transgender and wants to be the opposite sex? Would you force them to keep fitting into the gender roles? This will probably not mess Pop up. Do you think tomboys will become messed up if their parents let them be tomboys? If you don’t think tomboys will become messed up then I don’t understand what you have against this. They don’t just give gender neutral stuff to Pop. They let Pop choose which female and male stuff he/she wants.

Infamous
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 03:58 am: [report]

Your argument is faulty in that a) the transgender community is very small compared to the rest of the population and b) transgendered people HAVE a gender identity… it just doesn’t match what they have physically. So, I should raise my child without a very basic part of her identity in the very odd chance that she might later identify with a different gender? Really? Well, she might want to be a pilot when she grows up, so I’ll only buy her airplanes. Well, she might be a vegan so I’ll only offer her vegan food.

Come on.

When my child is old enough to start making decisions (she’s 20 months old now), I will support her. Right now, she decides that she doesn’t like being dirty and that she loves playing with her babies, so that’s what I foster. Children aren’t for making social statements.

natb11
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 12:44 pm: [report]

It doesn’t matter if the transgender community is small. I was trying to make a point about sex and gender identity/gender roles. I don’t think the parents intention was for this to be an experiment. I don’t think the parents said anything like that in the interview, so I don’t understand why it’s being assumed that it is an experiment. They are giving their child options, not restricting them. They aren’t forcing the child to act like a boy or a girl. Gender identity and sex are not related unless you force them to be related. Maybe Pop will have a specific gender identity later but some people are genderqueer which is somewhere between male and female. Pop can choose to act like a boy, girl, or somewhere in between. I’m sure Pop will eventually find out his/her sex. If Pop has ever seen his/her mom or dad naked then Pop will get an idea of what parts a male or female has and what parts they don’t have. If Pop isn’t sure what his/her sex is then there is always the option of asking. Pop’s parents would probably tell what sex he/she is if Pop asks them because they don’t need to keep it a secret to their child. Yes, Pop might be discriminated against by other people but the parents are probably prepared for that anyways because they know gender roles exist. There are some people who choose to be themselves and they are discrimated against but that doesn’t mean all those people will stop being who they want to be. There are many people who are discriminated against but their parents don’t tell them to stop being theirselves just because some people don’t like them.

onelegatatime
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:29 pm: [report]

I’m a bit conflicted about this.  Initially, I was all for this idea.  My husband, however, thinks it’s crazy and agrees with all of you that say that children are not meant to be born to prove a point.  I guess that’s valid.  But I think for me, looking deeper into it, the gender stereotypes that women, especially (well, because I am one), face are so negative (we’re too emotional, not rational, not good with the spatial reasoning) that if I had a daughter, I’d want to raise her so that she stays away from those behaviors that I know are perceived as weaknesses in the professional world.  I wouldn’t want her to be a spoiled little princess, into pink frilly dresses or fancy jewelery, expecting the man to buy her the big diamond and take care of her.  I don’t want to do anything to ever encourage that in a girl.  I’m sorry if that sounds, I don’t know…mean, but I guess I consider this a part of my value system that is my right to encourage, along with kindness and respect for you fellow man, when I raise my children.

AbbyM
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:31 pm: [report]

I have some mixed feelings about this article. I think that the parents are acting in what they believe is the best interest of the child, and I can commend them for not imposing a single identity on their son / daughter but the fact remains that Pop will eventually discover the need to assume a role in society that will include a gender. As a transgendered person myself, I can say that the most pain came from having a gender roll forced on me by my parents and those around me. I would have to consider denying a child the ability to express their femininity (or masculinity) a bad thing to do whether it was by forcing them to be male, or by denying them the choice of expression entirely. Some may even say the second case is worse as it opens the child to additional social scrutiny. I hope for Pop’s sake that the parents are more open and less gender-neutralizing than I gathered from what I read.

lancasterprof
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:53 pm: [report]

did it occur to anyone on this list yet that the child may be intersexed?  that is, the child may have been born with ambiguous genitalia and it is not possible for the doctor to assign a sex to the child, so the parents are simply waiting to see what the child him/herself says.  intersex is different from hermaphrodite and from transgender. anyone who is truly interested in informing themselves about these issues instead of jumping on to put in their two cents and to condemn parents who are possibly protecting the privacy of their child can inform themselves by reading Joan Roughgarden’s book Evolution’s Rainbow

Kitwench
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 11:19 am: [report]

‘Pop’ is the name the parents use in interviews - ‘Pop’ is not the child’s actual name. They are protecting the child’s privacy by NOT using the real name.
‘Pop’ is more than likely aware of physical gender, and the parents have not expressed any desire to hide this information from the child - it is the way others treat the child that matters, and ‘others’ are the ones who do NOT have the child’s physical gender information. Nor is that information needed by anyone but the child’s physician.
Why the assumption that ‘Pop’ will face problems in school ? Homeschooling is the forefront of the tolerance movement, and the child may well grow up in that far emotionally healthier environment, not abandoned to the group cruelty of the unique social war zone that is public school.