Mind Of Man: Who Should Pay For The First Date?
Posted by: John DeVore
Filed in:
guys
9:00AM, Thursday May 14th 2009
Men should pay for the first date. It is our responsibility, nay, birthright. It’s what we do instead of having to wear heels or beautifying face spackle. Women should offer to at least cover the tip, because that is polite. The next date should be her treat. Every subsequent date should be split. This is also polite. It is 2009, after all, and things change. More men are strapped for cash, more women are flushed. It is an increasingly even playing field when it comes to gender norms. Simple, right? Now we can all move along…
I cannot stand men who complain about women….It just isn’t manly…This world is nothing without women. It would be an absolute flavorless, pointless void. Men don’t complain. We bravely endure, pursue, and woo.
I spent the last two weeks chilling with family in Texas, eating barbecue, drinking beer in honky-tonk dives, and watching obscene amounts of television. Seriously, it was an unhealthy amount of television. Like, I can still hear the creaking of the ropes my brain cells hanged themselves with from the rafters of my skull. It’s remarkable how “American Idol” can take any song in any genre make it sound like a Broadway showstopper. Even Led Zeppelin.
During my orgy of TV watching I caught an episode of “Nightline.” They had a piece about dating tips in a down economy. One of the points of contention was who should pay for the first date. They interviewed men and women and they all gave perfectly nice answers. The women were okay with cheaper dates, maybe coffee or a couple drinks, because “getting to know someone” is the new “free dinner.” And the men interviewed sheepishly admitted they want to pay for the first date, but cut a brother some slack and, at least, reach for the purse.
“Nightline” taught me something. Men and women are different. For instance, men have penises, and women have vaginas. Also, men have giant bat wings, and cloven hooves. And women have licorice for hair and glittering flippers. It also taught me that, regardless of whether you’re dating in boom times or the Hobopocalypse, there are some rules of dating that just do not change.
Case in point: men should pay for the first date. I’m sure this angers some dudes. They’ll complain about how this isn’t fair. How, if women want true gender equality, they better start paying up. Basically, I fully expect plenty of guys to bitch and moan and complain. I cannot stand men who complain about women. I mean, sure, you can’t live with them, and you can’t live without them, amiright? But let me tell you, successful businessmen never complain about how hard it is to make money, they just do. Mountaineers don’t complain about the summit. Chuck Yeager didn’t complain about how high he had to fly. Likewise, it just isn’t manly to complain about women the way Augustus Gloop complains about not enough chocolate. This world is nothing without women. It would be an absolute flavorless, pointless void. Men don’t complain. We bravely endure, pursue, and woo.
Back on topic: I’ve been unemployed before. Flat ass broke. And there have been women during those times that preferred the attentions of, for the sake of argument, stand-up comedians who could afford to send cars to pick them up versus a struggling writer who could only offer a pot of homemade pasta. And recently, I’ve been hustling to make ends meet. A scribblers life is often feast or famine. Even during lean times, I make sure I can pay for a first date. Although, where I take the lady out has been vetted for price in advance.
Dating is a dance, and as such, there are fundamental rules to the dance. The primary rule is: when dancing, show respect to the one who brung you. The secondary rule, FYI, is: dance like no one is looking. But that first dictum is the most important. If you ask someone out, it is polite to pay for that dinner. Politeness is a good thing. I’m a proper Southern boy, and had manners beaten into me. Being polite is simply way of showing respect, because in the South, being polite is the best way not to get shot when in mixed, inebriated company. It is just friggin’ polite for a dude to pay for a first date, much the way it was polite for our cavemen ancestors to give the caveladies the first bite of roast mastodon. Better yet, much the way our dads paid for the first date with our future momz.
Of course, women aren’t off the hook. It wouldn’t hurt you to treat the dude you’re dating to dinner and a movie. Hooray, so many of you are successful career women with a little scratch in the bank! Don’t be cheap now, ladies. You will never buy a meal for a more appreciative person than a dude you’re dating. A very charming, very hot woman recently bought me a delicious meal, and it was totally awesome. The gender tables being turned was, at first, disconcerting. But then I eased into the pleasures of respect being paid. I didn’t even feel the pressure to put out, which I was entirely willing to do. The next date was on me of course. Luckily, she liked pizza and horror movies.
TheFrisky.com is part of the Turner Sports and Entertainment Digital Network
sophie19
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 09:17 am: [report]
This has always been my opinion and always will be: whoever makes more money of the two in a couple should pay more often. It’s not hard to tell, even early on, who makes more bank than whom. In some relationships, I’ve been the one who makes more, and in others, it’s been the guy. So then I’d treat him to weekend brunch every now and then (unless he wouldn’t let me). But honestly, if a guy makes two, three, even four times more than I do, no, I’m not going to pay equally.
becktasm
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 09:23 am: [report]
@Sophie19: Agreed. No way am I going dutch on everything when I’ve got $200 in my bank account and he’s got that much in his wallet.
My live-in boyfriend pays for pretty much everything, since I’m a struggling student and am always on the verge of financial ruin. Sometimes there’s a little bit of tension about it, but we make it work. He buys the food, I cook he. He dirties up the apartment, I clean it. I have dinner ready for him when he gets home, I run him errands, I make it up to him in any way I can. It sounds a little old fashioned, but we’re really happy with it. And it helps that any time he buys me dinner I am “blowjobligated” (per our rules).
Needless to say, he definitely payed for the first date.
PinkRanger
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 09:34 am: [report]
nice article! I like to keep things as dutch as possible, and since guys have nearly always insisted on paying for the first date, I try and pick up the second.
More free/cheaper dates please! My boyfriend and I had a recent outing to a free museum on a local college campus, and then a $2 screening of blue velvet aftwards with a ridiculously inexpensive homemade garlic pesto spaghetti dinner. Even though it cost next to nothing, it was one of the most romantic days we’ve shared in while!
Humble Bee
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 10:15 am: [report]
My favorite part of the article isn’t your awesome comparisons and cool vocabulary like Hobopocalypse, it’s the fact that you stated it on the first damn sentence. Love that. Men should pay, bottom line bitches. I like your attitude and that fact that paying is mainly a matter of respect and how we were brought up. Paying to me isn’t about the money, it shows me if he is respectful and considerate towards me. I still use my rule of thumb though, if I invited i’m paying. I don’t always feel like dinner and fancy pants places, I’m sure most girls feel the same way too. Sometimes we just want hang out, have some cheap vodka and chill.
sam04
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 10:17 am: [report]
@sophie19: So if you could afford to pay, but your partner made dramatically more money than you… you would still expect him to cover more than half? Gross.
I like to keep my money separate. My ex and I lived together for five years. We had a joint account that we each deposited a portion of our salaries into each month and we used that account for groceries, rent, household stuff… basically anything that was for “us”. The rest of my salary was mine to do what I wanted with it. Same for him.
joyy
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 10:35 am: [report]
@sam04 - this can take on several different looks. My bf makes WAY more than I do and always has. Before he bought a house and when I was making a college student $6/hour part time, you bet he paid a lot more than I did, especially after years of living on corporate expense accounts left him with a taste for fine dining - a world he gladly opened my eyes (and tastebuds) to.
NOW though, he owns a house, so his disposable income is closer to what mine is, even though his income blows away my otherwise totally respectable ‘grownup’ salary, so we go back and forth more evenly than we used to. There’s no rule saying you have to split stuff 50/50 - “fair” doesn’t look the same for every couple. For us, when we first started dating, the fairest breakdown was that he paid for dinner and I left tip/paid for valet (when applicable).
retro chic
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 11:22 am: [report]
sophie19, 100%. What’s proportional = what’s fair. Imo, that “50/50 or else” attitude/practice ≠ what is fair—except to those rationalizing as “proof” of modern feminism/womanhood.
Humblebee, Haha, “Men should pay, bottom line bitches.” I like your style!
JDV, we like men to def pay The First Date. Hopefully, enough contact for vetting (coffee, etc) has been made to have confidence that there is mutual interest. It just sets the best tone, with both appreciative of the other. A follow-up repertoire of pizza or homemade or free community events are great, too—thank you! And, it’s the attitude of how the two in question pull together—not only the tab totals—that’s just math. A woman worth her salt fully expects to reciprocate and/or tip/do extras regularly. Everyone needs to feel the flow of give and take that is a sexual dance as well.
saysay
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 11:34 am: [report]
After the previous posts about who should pay and all that jazz, I surveyed my dad and step-mother, as well as all my friends (men and women). The overwhelming consensus was that the guy should pay, no matter what, on a first date. I was very surprised by my male friends’ reactions because majority of them are broke as hell and in their early 20’s, but they still felt very strongly about this. My parents were horrified at the thought that a “man” would let a woman pay on a date, and they instructed me to run far far away from any man who would. I don’t know if it’s a regional thing or what,I live in the South, but that’s just the way it goes around here I guess… and I’m not complaining. (this is only concerning the 1st date mind you… later dates are negotiable.)
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 11:35 am: [report]
@DeVore: “Chuck Yeager didn’t complain about how high he had to fly” He flew FAST not high. /Jeopardy session
I liked this post despite the glaring history inaccuracy. Cheers.
justme
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 12:16 pm: [report]
So if the first date is a couple of ‘get to know you’ beers for $20 and the 2nd date is several more beers plus appetizers for $70, you’re telling me it’s my turn to pick up the check?
John DeVore
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 12:23 pm: [report]
@CheeeeEEEEse
Except for that one time his rocket plane stalled at 80,000 feet.
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 12:37 pm: [report]
@JDV: But he wasn’t going for a height record. A guy in 1960 did a parachute jump from over 102,000 feet.
sam04
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 12:39 pm: [report]
@joyy: I realize that 50/50 doesn’t work for everyone. That’s just how I prefer to do it. I simply think that if you CAN afford to pay your way comfortably, it seems kind of greedy to expect the other person to pay more because they have more.
I know lots of couples are out of balance if one person is still in school, struggling in the workforce, etc. However, coming from a family where each of my parents have been married 3+ times, I know that when a relationship fails, money becomes a BIG bone of contention. I prefer to pay my own way.
Jessica
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 02:22 pm: [report]
I always offer to split the bill (do the reach for my purse) but I have to confess that if a guy asked me on a date to dinner and then asked me to split the bill, I’d think he was a little cheap. But the reason I think it’s cheap might not be what you’d expect: I’m not looking for a guy who has a lot of money, I am looking for a guy who treats me well.
Splitting made more sense when we were in high school and college and neither of us had a steady paycheck; I just assumed then that if I was broke, he was broke. Those relationships were also a lot less formal because we were so young! But now, I feel like a guy who gets to know me, realizes he’s into me, asks me on a date, picks a restaurant, etc. needs to show me that he wants to treat me well. Maybe I feel like it shows he’s serious about his intentions to date?
I’ll always offer to keep splitting the bill and I’m happy to split it 50-50 once we’re comfortable with each other. But not picking up the check on the 1st date, esp if he chose a pricy restaurant, would be a mark against him.
sunrise
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 03:51 pm: [report]
I used to argue with my past two boyfriends about paying… but it was about letting me pay, not making them pay. Once we started going out, I felt guilty when either of them was putting down money for dates and stuff all the time…. the first one was older than me, and the one time I tried to take him out to dinner at a somewhat nice restaurant, he got all uncomfortable and kept asking if i was sure i could afford it. The second one was younger than me, and i tried to split stuff more evenly, but he still wound up paying more often than me. Sweet, but it kinda pissed me off….
oh, and @ cheese and JDV: yay for nerdy boy-arguments!
Shasta
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 04:22 pm: [report]
Very well-written, insightful piece. Hppe your writing skills translate into some cash for you. They should.
OK Girls - you’re not gonna like this but I feel compelled.
@Becktasm and you other things need to learn that Money is Power. The End. At some point you’re going to get tired of giving blow jobs in exchange for a nice dinnera, and he’s going to realize there’s a word for that kind of girl. He’ll kick you to the curb and then you are screwed. But you don’t get a meal out of it. Just Ramen Noodles.
Humble Bee
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 04:31 pm: [report]
@Shata, while I apprecite your insight, I don’t appreciate you calling me “you other thing”...
I do agree, that money is power, but paying for dinner doesn’t show me that you have jack. It shows me that your respectful, not that your a millionaire. I don’t give blow jobs in exchange for dinner, thank you very much. I give them with love and passion in the heat of a moment.
becktasm
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 05:36 pm: [report]
@Shasta: Haha, ouch! Guess it didn’t occur to you that we’re in love. Our system helps negate that occasional tension that comes when one person in a relationship has more money than the other. Like I said, we make it work, and we love each other dearly. You know, living together, spooning, sharing interests, laughing, all that jazz. It’s not all about money. I’m not bankrupt, and am perfectly capable of living without any financial help from him, though I’m not sure at that point if he could live without me around to clean the apartment and do his laundry. =)
It’s a delicate balance. You don’t have to act all holier-than-though and dance around the word “whore” like if you don’t say it than it’ll sting more. He could be broker than I am and I’d still be so in love with him, and so blissfully happy because of it, that sometimes I can’t sleep at night. Cheer up! Maybe someday you’ll realize that money really isn’t everything. And maybe someday, if you’re lucky, someone will love you as much as he loves me. Though I’d work on your little attitude problem first, if you’re ever to hope for that.
flooze
wrote on May 14 2009 @ 07:33 pm: [report]
And as far as dating and paying in this economy, I would be totally turned off by a too-expensive dinner or outing. I dont like fancy. I like cheap but with lots of character. By the way, any advice on how to write that preference into an online dating profile without sounding like I have no standards?!?
DancerNinja
wrote on May 15 2009 @ 07:10 am: [report]
I paid once on a first date. But then again, I asked him and planned the whole thing. I let him pay for the drinks afterward. I also paid for the dinner on another first date. But I had suggested the restaurant and at the end I could tell he wasn’t as enamored with the place as I was. So I paid AND got the leftovers (it was Zachary’s pizza, not gross half eaten leftovers). This all worked beautifully for me.
Where in Texas are you from, Mr. DeVore? I think my Southern upbringing is just a little different.
Lindsay Goldenberg
wrote on May 19 2009 @ 12:11 pm: [report]
John: What if instead of paying for dinners, the woman instead puts her share into a savings account that is used ONLY to buy slutty lingerie with?
Happycrow
wrote on May 20 2009 @ 10:07 am: [report]
It’s not about what’s fair. It’s about respect. Respect includes having the cojones to say either “it’s important to her that she pay, so that’s fine,” or else “my plan has gone sideways, time to improvise, with her input.”
LOTS of things in life aren’t fair, and that accounts for 99.44% of men’s lives (punctuated by us getting the privelege of croaking an average of a decade faster, too!). Real men know it and they don’t give a crap. Any man worth being involved with will see that the field is tilted, and sucks, and then dive in enthusiastically with both feet—or else he won’t ask for a date in the first place.
landesign
wrote on May 20 2009 @ 08:38 pm: [report]
@becktasm: You two sound like a lucky couple. To have found
each other. The Wife and I had a similar unwritten arrangement. Not as an obligation but because people in love will just make up reasons to just ‘git’ with each other. And by the way, when we were just dating, I paid for all the dates, even when I couldn’t afford it. I scratched it up from somewhere. She did spring for breakfasts though, many a time.
juliePS
wrote on May 22 2009 @ 07:06 am: [report]
whoever asks for the first date pays, that’s my rule, and so far it hasn’t failed me.
dlws8607
wrote on June 23 2009 @ 12:20 pm: [report]
The author of this “article” (John DeVore) demonstrates quite clearly that he is an idiot. He has nothing to say worth reading.
Q: What do you call a woman who expects men to give her money in exchange for her company (which is what the man is doing when he must pay for the date)? A: A prostitute.
Any woman who expects men to pay for her company on a date is showing just how loathsome she is. Any man who puts up with this is showing how stupid he is.