Mind Of Man: Pity The Pick-Up Artist

Posted by: John DeVore Filed in: guys
11:00AM, Thursday December 18th 2008

Comments (32)

Some of you might have heard of or read Neil Strauss’ The Game, a fawning book about a silver tongued Casanova who goes by the mysterious code-name Mystery. Probably many more of you have seen ridiculously dressed beanpole Mystery tutor his homoerotic boy-cult on Vh1’s reality show “The Pick-Up Artist.” Is it just me or does he look like cross between a Las Vegas magician and a Dr. Seuss character? What you don’t know is if you know a guy who’s signed up for a class in picking up women (like New York’s “The Art of Charm”) or sloppily employed the social tools taught in these classes, written about in books, or demonstrated on television shows.

What does it say about women that these cheeseball techniques seem to work? Were any of you aware about how difficult it can be to talk to some of you? Many of you, and I know this, bemoan how no guys seem to be into you. Anything wrong on your end?

I wager people who read this site will agree there’s something about the pickup artist social fad that’s desperate, creepy, and straight out pathetic. Women roll their eyes at these slimeball tactics and profess to be invulnerable to such arcane manipulations. Men, for the most part, regard pickup artists as less than men; real men aren’t scared of women and don’t need the security blanket of rehearsed repartee or purchased charisma.

It’s easy to mock the wannabe pickup artists, with their clownish fashion flourishes and well-taught penchant for playing hard to get when chatting up the la-a-adies. But some measure of sympathy for them is in order. Isn’t it? What does this phenomenon say about modern hook-up rituals, that some dudes seek the macho, if sensitive, affirmation of self-esteem coaches?

And what does it say about women that these cheeseball techniques appear to work more often than not? Were any of you aware of how difficult it can be to talk to some of you? Many of you say there are no good guys who seem to be into you. Is there anything wrong on your end, perhaps? If there are millions to be made teaching women how to be picked up, I’ll write them and continue with this column from my tropical island compound.
The other day, I’m sitting down for a couple few beers with a good friend. He’s a smart guy, funny, honest, the type of dude you want wielding a chainsaw and watching your back as you fight off the zombie hordes.

We’re talking about what men talk about—Wolverine, the New York Jets, Ana Paquin in “True Blood”—when in walk four women wearing the frazzled look of New York tourists, shaking off jet lag and the shock of having arrived on a huge piece of overly populated, perforated concrete. They are attractive, chatty. I could care less. I’m having bro time, quaffing and discussing important bro topics, like farting and Haruki Murakami.

The woman are sitting close enough that we can hear each other’s conversations. A hint of a foreign accent wafts over to our table. My friend, without warning, leans over to their table and says, “My friend and I have a bet that you’re either from England or Ireland. Which is it?”

We do? I bet money on that?

Giggles, nose crinkles, answers. “England.”

Sweet Zeus, my pal just “opened a set.” Just like how Mystery teaches you to do! My friend and I were insinuating ourselves into a conversation and pouring on the charm. It was all very friendly, and they were in town for a week. But I wanted to drink and catch up with a bro, not go vagina hunting. Still, I was impressed with my friend’s poise and confidence, and I eventually retreated from my attentive funny guy mode to my default setting: cranky old bastard.

I watched as he made these girls light up! I went for a cigarette. When I returned, the love-in had ended. I asked if he’d gotten digits, he said no, and I wondered what the point was. They’re in town for a week. Surely, young female tourists have an appetite for consequence-free sex. He didn’t get the digits, but the point was simple. Talking to pretty ladies can be fun.

And it can be scary. It can also be a pain in the ass. But for a lot of dudes, it’s straight up intimidating. I’ve written for men’s magazines and websites for years, and what never ceases to amaze me is the number of guys who want to know how to approach women. And these men weren’t the emotionally deformed dorks from Vh1. They were confident, career-oriented, some of them manly.

Some social dynamics don’t change. It’s still the man’s job to approach, to hunt. The Pick-Up Artist game isn’t really about silly buzzwords like “negging,” where dudes are taught to be coy and aloof because people pursue the one who retreats. Surely, you ladies know something of this; it’s one of your oldest tricks. And let’s not forget “indicators of interest,” which teaches men to identify when a woman is into you. Think about that: Some guys don’t even know when you’re interested. Man, pity the pick-up artist and his prey.

No, this game is really about self-esteem. It’s about two guys imbuing each other with enough confidence to chat up women. Pick-up artistry is nothing more than training wheels for the courage deficient. Because nothing good comes in this world without taking a risk. Without leaping on faith. The heart, after all, is bouncy, not brittle. Hearts don’t break, they dent.

For sure, there are douchebags who employ pick-up artist techniques, but chances are they were douchebags before they learned the choreography. Likewise, I’m sure being a pick-up artist inspires a measure of misogyny, but that hate was probably there to begin with.

I mean, the best way to meet women, to sleep with women, to date women, is to like them.

You might like:

Tags: mind of man, what men think, mystery, pick-up artist, the game, neil strauss

Comments (32)

comments

Arty
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 11:09 am: [report]

LOVE the last line.

I think the term “pick-up artist” is hilarious, emphasis on “artist.” Picking up women is an art form?

EastCoastMale
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 11:14 am: [report]

hmm definitely said a lot in this article and there are so many variables or points to be made that go along with this whole premise, many of which you detailed. Pick up artists are cheesy, I definitely agree. The hard part for me is that, who is going to these classes just to be a sleezball and try to tally their bedpost and who is attending these because they actually lack confidence and poise when speaking to women. I know I will catch flack for saying that but I think at least a small percentage of supposed fledgling pick up artists are actually just guys who don’t have experience with or are intimidated by talking to women.Of course a large portion of the remainder can be complete d-bags lol, there is always an exception to the rule =). The hard part that I have seen other guys struggle with is that, they genuinely want to strike up conversation without falling into the PUA category that many women in cities or urban areas are so accustomed to and on the lookout for. There is a definite difference between trying to be blatantly cute and disarming in order to strike up a conversation with a woman and saying “do your feet hurt? because you’ve been running through my mind all day” to every women who walks in the door, in my opinion. So in closing, coming from my male perspective, be wary of creeps who are obvious PUAs but dont automatically write off every cornball introduction from a guy because he might be sincerely interested in you and not your pants. Not every confident guy says “hey babe, digits…lets have em” lol.

hemi
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 11:58 am: [report]

I think the “indicators of interest” thing is the kind of thing you learn the hard way… But again: It takes a bit of confidence!

shannac02
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 12:01 pm: [report]

Digits? Who says that? I’ve watched a couple episodes of “the pickup artist” and those poor guys just have absolutely NO experience with women whatsoever… So “Mystery” throws them into the lions den with strippers and girls in clubs and stuff? Guys just don’t realize that if there is a HUGE pack of girls together, you generally have NO chance. If there is just 2 or three together, you’re golden, especially if you come over and say something nice, you get the AWWWWW factor.

shannac02
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 12:05 pm: [report]

P.S.: What’s a PUA??? I wasn’t schooled in acronyms…

vanya
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 12:17 pm: [report]

@shanna, I think it’s Pick Up Artist…

You know, I learned from the Going On A Manhunt post yesterday that up to 80% of men have experienced shyness at one time or another during their lifetime. (Which cracks me up 1. because who hasn’t? and 2.) Because it’s such a funny “reason” to encourage women to take on the pua role, that men are just too shy. Unless maybe she has a conversation starter with her, like “small stuffed animal” or “interesting jewelry”.

shannac02
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 12:21 pm: [report]

Oh WOW. I’m an idiot. Duh Shanna.
hahaha yes, I know now never to leave the house without some sort of conversation starter attached to my body…

Arty
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 12:21 pm: [report]

You know that small stuffed animal trick actually worked…

...in middle school.

WinkyFace
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 12:23 pm: [report]

I first head about Mystery before The Pick-Up Artist was a show. Even then I thought it was pathetic. Then a friend pointed out which of his friends and acquaintances subscribe to Mystery’s “advice” and felt sad for them. I don’t know any truly awesome guys who would feel the need to use absurd tactics just to get a girls attention. “Peacocking” is particularly a stupid one, where the guy wears some kind of weird accessory as a conversation starter. I later found out that one of the Mystery followers got a serious girlfriend, but not using any of the dumb advice given… he met her at a coffee shop, as normal people would likely do.

Beachy
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 12:28 pm: [report]

I can’t remember ever being “picked” by a PUA. But then again, I’m aggressive when I want something… I’ve always been the one to go after the guy I want, ask him out, etc. Oh crap, I just realized…. I’M the pick up artist!!! LOL

Dmun
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 01:42 pm: [report]

What annoys me about reading about people and their opinions on these terrible “PUAs” is that they do what everyone else does, only consciously, and it seems unfair somehow. Since the dawn of time, Fratboy #&@$% have run through women’s lives and self-esteems with arrogance and entitlement and no one said a word.

Suddenly, you teach a nerd how to approach a woman—an social ability he would not have learned in high school or anywhere else—and these men must be sinister or pathetic.

Face it: dating is tough, women pretend to be unapproachable and being a male is being in competition with everyone else. Someone has to teach them how be to social.

And as the OP said, the #&@$% worked. He sat back like a grumpy old man while his friend had an exciting conversation. Then he criticized the friend for not getting a phone number—maybe he should have joined and tried too (oh, wait, it was “bro time”).

@winkyface, no, peacocking isn’t stupid… if it’s subtle. Personally, I used to own this Thunder Cats belt buckle that would constantly have people talking and asking me about it; they ask me about my necklace; sometimes I wear a hat, one of those black fedoras, and it’s instantly an attention grabber.

That mystery guy is a show boat and likes looking a bit like a freak but wearing accessories that people talk about, or dressing in a stylish manner (in other words) shouldn’t be disparaged just because someone recommended you do so.

@Shanna, you are incorrect—you can approach a large number of women, if you know how to do it. I’ve done it. It was very exciting, like a personal challenge, and it worked- I’m just a normal guy, who learned how to be more confident and realized that it doesn’t pay to be afraid of other people. And reading stuff about PUA’s is what taught me that.

Embrace the self-help people. Stop spitting on it. You probably need it too.

EastCoastMale
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 02:19 pm: [report]

Dmun, hmm some interesting points made. Would your horse like a carrot?

shannac02
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 02:20 pm: [report]

EastCoastMale
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 02:21 pm: [report]

Oh and sometimes its true and sometimes its not dmon. Some men can’t approach large groups of women and some can, some large groups will be receptive and some wont. To say someone is incorrect flat out is a bit odd don’t you think? unless you know all the feelings of every grouping of women that will ever occur in the future.

Katia
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 05:44 pm: [report]

Oh ECM~ That made me laugh so hard.

I’m not against anyone learning a social technique to meet people, but some of them are so contrived it’s ridiculous. I really don’t like the advice of insulting a woman when you first meet her, denegrating her in order to put her off balance. It’s offensive. Shockingly (and sadly) it does seem to work on some women. I really don’t understand that. If a strange guy came up to me and put me down, I’d be stunned, appalled and wouldn’t give him the time of day.

shannac02
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 05:51 pm: [report]

Uhm… I think thefrisky.com should make some sort of comment/topic compilation that goes a lil somethin like this: Every guy should be as awesome as ECM and John DeVore… And just put a bunch of amazing quotes and cute stuff in there from the two of them. Then we can all sigh in unison.

Just putting it out there!

Dmun
wrote on December 18 2008 @ 11:14 pm: [report]

Negs are probably the most dangerous and misunderstood part of the entire thing—but it’s the only part anyone pays any attention to.

Two things: A) there are different schools of thought out there. Not all use negs or canned openers. I, personally, used neither but that doesn’t mean they aren’t useful for some people. B) You don’t know what a neg is or what it’s for. If you knew the context of it you might feel differently—frankly, their usage is part of the dance of high-confidence women, normally done with high confidence men.

You do NOT neg a normal chick. That’s being an #&@$%. It ruins the vibe and is counterproductive.

If you do it to a beautiful woman, who already knows her worth? Then it’s showing, “Hey, I’m not a chump, I’ll mess with you just as hard as you’ll mess with me.”

Ever seen the playground playfulness of two confident people busting eachother’s chops in a club? Congrats, you’ve seen negging.

The only reason it bothers anyone is, as I said, they have no idea what it is that their discussing and if you don’t really know, it sounds pretty nasty. Words like “social value” and “negging” and all that jargon basically break down complex social maneuvers for people who have never learned them—but they happen every day, by people who know nothing about the terms.

Essentially, it’s telling nerds: hey! That beautiful chick? Playfully pick on her, just like you did in high school. Poke fun at her. Be playful. Be cocky. It’ll work out.

And then, after you’ve established a playful rapport? Get to know her.

Oooooooooh how scary, right?

@ECM, no, it’s usually true—the problem is, too many people, like you, seem to think that having beliefs that hold them back (like, you can’t POSSIBLY approach a large group of women!!) are being realistic or somehow being enlightened by not making blanket statements.

Well, you’re wrong. A confident person can talk to any large group, when they’re out in a social context. Period.

EastCoastMale
wrote on December 19 2008 @ 11:02 am: [report]

@ shanna
quite nice of you to say hun but I think the people on the site can look to men all around them for cuteness, John may be deserving but that would be giving me way too much credit =)

@Dmun
I would like to applaud your far reaching knowledge and for showing us all the light, we needed your shepherding so badly. I personally, was lost until now in my social life and skills until I heard all about this “negging” and the words “Hey, I’m not a chump, I’ll mess with you just as hard as you’ll mess with me” were uttered and suddenly it all seemed so clear. A new level of masculinity and maturity had been exposed to me which I never knew existed. Secondly, your open mindedness is so refreshing, you avoid being condescending and pompous like some other total #&@$% do, forcing their “I’m right, you’re wrong” standards on everyone. You successfully run the gambit of deep, thought provoking issues with such poise it is just really nice to see. You pointing out that confidence is never to be confused with cocky, know-it-all-ness making a guy a straight d-bag is something that more men should take heed of and learn a thing or two. Again kudos….and I’m running out of carrots.

Katia
wrote on December 19 2008 @ 03:15 pm: [report]

Dmun~ So…let me get this straight, there are “normal” girls and then there is this superior race of beautiful, confident women who “know their worth” and will innately comprehend that an insult is your way of playful adolescent communication…cause that’s what two ultra-confident people do? That all uber-women will welcome such insults from unknown men as a means of beguiling flirtation…because secretly it’s what she really wants?

Yep. Scary is right.

Quite presumptuous. I know plenty of beautiful, confident women who would think such behavior was worthy of an immature ass and it has nothing to do with a sense of humor and everything to do with respect. Personally, I find cocky arrogance to be extremely unappealing and clearly indicative of someone with a self esteem issue.

I dislike people who play games. Just be yourself. Be a nice guy. And by the way, I LOVE nerds. They are usually the best, most loyal, most interesting people to be around.

EastCoastMale
wrote on December 19 2008 @ 03:22 pm: [report]

**does slow 80’s, top gun clap for Katia. Holds her hand high so she can take a bow. Kudos. (oh and by the way Dmon, if it wasnt clear in my latest post, all that praise was sarcasm, in case my level of humor was beneath you)

Soze
wrote on December 20 2008 @ 04:53 pm: [report]

Looks like you have to establish some kind of kudos in here instead of coming up with real arguments. But let me just try arguments.

I have been studying the “Game Theory” for just about a year now. Not because I am shy with women, not because I feel a deep hatred to them. No, I like to read this simply because I am fascinated by the fact that someone, and now finally males too, name city life for what it is: A fun game to play for both sexes!

Game theory is essentially about not making classical mistakes when dating women. Examples: offering a drink before conversation has been initiated, inappropriately complimenting her looks, making advances too early (or too late) etc. In this sense, it is related to a concept a few of the posters may find useful to study in more detail: The art of having a civilized argument. Classical fallacies, and I will stick to ones made above, include ad hominem (going after the man, not the statement), “Proof” by verbosity, Ignoratio Elenchi (“red herring”) and over-application of Occam’s razor. While it is possible to learn civilized discourse in school, “Game theory”, until recently, is something you had no way to learn unless taught at home.

Game theory is a formalization of term and techniques that most people who are successful with women use in some form or another. Let us take peacocking as an example: The open display of an interesting object with the purpose of creating a talking point or proving ones worth. Now a fancy hat or feather in that hat is a peacock gadget – but so is an expensive Rolex watch or “forgetting” to remove the openly displayed Armani tag on your new suit. There really is no difference: both examples display a lack of taste and sophistication.

Most things taken to the extreme are bad – a blindingly obvious fact when observing American hypocrisy culture. Women have long had plenty of dating and flirting advice from magazines such as Cosmopolitan. Furthermore, series like Sex and the City, featuring four women in need of psychological counseling not and not more 1000 USD shoes have made the “princess attitude” almost socially acceptable. Mystery’s use of formalized pickup skills to destroy this illusion is a fitting, and I find quite amusing, mirror image of this superficially.

In conclusion, I think the “pickup artist highlights” the fact that both men and women need to stop this silly arms race that dating has become and bring some “artistry” back into the game.

rockstar1226
wrote on December 20 2008 @ 11:50 pm: [report]

ecm, i dont think dmun explains his thoughts and ideas in laymans terms. so, i dont think you really understand him. your reaction to him,is typical of a person who doesnt have an open mind. plus it lacks maturity. as for this article ,it was super dumb. pua dont use lines,the guys being decribed are not ladies men at all. real pua, just ooozzz confidence. women like confident men. as for the negging. i never herd the term or have seen any of they shows mentioned. but i do understand the term. here’s how and why it works. when you tell a beautiful woman the same crap they herd a 1000 times there numb to it. like ,oh your so pretty,beautiful,ect. let say shes wearing a very small blouse with mostly an exposed back. you might say something like,what you couldnt afford the whole blouse,and you smile. the point is ,its meant to be funny, not really negative. if she gets hissy about it,shes probly a drama queen. which means ,i dont want to know her anyway. when you bust on a woman,its a way of not putting her up on a pedestal,as other men do that are in awe of her. the best game you can have is to just be yourself,and not worry about what anyone thinks of you. i personally had to go thru the process of finding my game. i had a shattered self confidence problem after being out of the dating scene for 12 years. i had forgotten how and why i was successful with women before. you really need that, i dont give a crap wether you like me or not attitude. women also like guys that are cocky,if they do it with a smile. i have a lady friend who busts on me all the time. i actually say shut up to her alot. i dont like saying that,because it’s so rude,but she gets on a roll. point is ,if you cant laugh at yourself why laugh at someone else. another thing, when you bust on the opposite sex. go way overboard,exagerate to the max.thats when its funny,not hurtful,and smile. cocky and funny is a great mix,and it does take a quick witted mind to get on a roll, so some may need to practice.but once your good at it,it can be alot of fun. in a sence,you kinda treat them as if you were busting on your friend. i dont see why anyone, who wants to be sucessful with the opposite sex. enough to try and learn thru lesson, should be looked down apon. everyone needs love. and ecm,open your mind ,not your ego.

EastCoastMale
wrote on December 22 2008 @ 08:21 am: [report]

rockstar

I wish I could say I read your whole response all the way though but I got to the fifth or sixth sentence, if that’s what they were supposed to be and stopped. Thanks for your input but I honestly passed over your response and somehow, feel a better person for doing so.

P.S.- Try English 101, punctuation and correct sentences can be so fun.

EastCoastMale
wrote on December 22 2008 @ 08:23 am: [report]

and I know it was through, not though, wanted to see if you would catch that. My huge ego impairs my typing sometimes. =)

NookieNotes
wrote on December 22 2008 @ 11:49 am: [report]

Hmmm.

This is am entertaining enough thread that I wanted to register to comment.

ECM, I have to say I did the same with rockstar’s post. I wanted to read it, but I couldn’t. Truly.

My take on the game thing as a woman is simple. If you feel you need the help, get it. But use the same judgment you might use when choosing a car to buy or which personal religion/philosophy to follow.

Pick-up styles are not one-size-fits-all, and neither are women. What works for one man may not work for another. Test and refine.

Not long ago I had an interesting conversation with a man who sells an attraction system once about another man well-known in the PUA industry. He mentioned that the PUAs needed this other guy because most wouldn’t really know what to do with a woman once they got her home.

I agree. Learning how to please a woman first is a great way to boost your confidence. After all, how great must it feel to know (Not simply think it, or suspect it because you have never had a complaint. Seriously. Have you ever gotten a referral? More than one? But I digress.) that you can rock a woman’s world beyond what she has ever known before?

Unless all you want is to take a girl home for a single night that eventually becomes a shameful reputation as a terrible lover, do ALL your homework. Capisce?

Katia
wrote on December 22 2008 @ 12:40 pm: [report]

Nicely said NookieNotes.

For all the PUA’s that posted, if you are happy with who you are and no one is getting hurt, then I guess more power to you. You seem very young. Keep in mind, there are few things more pathetic than a man in his late thirties, forties (and beyond) who is still using the same coy and pretentious games he learned in his twenties to score with women. And don’t assume that one size (i.e. behavior) fits all women. Just because she doesn’t relate to your smooth moves does not make her a drama queen, a bitch, immature, insecure, unintelligent, lacking a sense of humor or (gasp) mundanely and shamefully “normal”. It seems that you desire the attentions of high maintenance, superficial women and for that you have my sympathies.

Good luck and remember, you reap what you sow.

sometimes
wrote on December 22 2008 @ 01:47 pm: [report]

it might not matter but i did find that dmun has been the most honest. without having to insult anyone in the process. sadly the human vocabulary is not rich enough to fully and adequately describe human relationships and so simplification in terminology is the easiest angle to tear down a perfectly logical case. normal girls is not an insult. negging is not insulting. lack of punctuation is not a crime. repeating fortune cookie disney advice is. i dont really care about the pua topic any more- if they help anyone find and get someone worthy of them that s great.
i understand that what dmun - and correct me if i m wrong here man - is basically describing is the inability to flirt, for lack of skills not for lack of wanting to participate. not everyone can charm quickly, under pressure, scrutiny and in any environment. decoding behaviour and realising one’s own strong points and developing styles/techniques is natural - it just doesn t always come naturally. it s true, women seem to have been schooled in the matter through popular culture and some men seem to just ‘have it’ but that doesnt mean that everyone s life isnt made easier if you observe, analyse and learn from human behaviour. many people want to admit nothing less than that they can get anyone they take an interest in doing anything special but being themselves. as if using an interesting belt or a playful dig somehow negates that.
high school never seems to end somehow

slip
wrote on December 22 2008 @ 05:51 pm: [report]

I like women, but talking to them can be intimidating sometimes. It’s not my favorite thing about myself, so I’m trying to change it.

Maybe my courage is deficient, or maybe the years I spent taking leaps of faith didn’t go so well. Either way, I’ve gotten some help. Not all PU stuff works for me, but when something does, I find myself having the kind of conversations I’ve always wanted to have with women who really interest me.

It’s not magic. It’s work to find my flaws and correct them, and I’m still really uncomfortable much of the time. But things could be worse. I could end up the kind of guy who dismisses talking to four women in a bar as “vagina hunting.”

John DeVore
wrote on December 23 2008 @ 03:17 am: [report]

ZING!

deva
wrote on December 24 2008 @ 12:01 am: [report]

my take on men approaching me? if you’re honestly into me and brave enough to make the first move, i’ll reward you even if i’m not interested. and the only reason i want the guy to make the first move is because i’m someone who likes to be tied to the bed, if he can’t initiate contact then he’ll run screaming when i take him home! ;P

Throne of Cynicism
wrote on December 25 2008 @ 05:24 am: [report]

I have to lol about how catty some of the guys in here are.
But I do agree that PUA advice can be invaluable if for nothing more tan teaching less confident guys what cocky d-bags already know.
If some guys use it as a con, that’s on them.

It’s nothing I’m really interested in, personally. I’ve never understood approaching women I know nothing about, but it’s difficult enough approaching and talking to girls I’m familiar with, and there’s games after that anyway. So I can sympathize with guys that need training wheels to hit on women.