It’s Not Fair For A Female Cop To Pose As A Prostitute

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 09:05 am: [report]

Manswers taught me how to tell the difference between prostitutes and cops. All you gotta do is ask them to pose in the nude while you take pictures. This is entirely legal, however a police officer wont go for it.

Riley
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 09:11 am: [report]

I believe to get an entrapment case going, she would have had to come up to him unsolicited.  If he stopped the car for her to come up to him, entrapment wouldn’t fly.  If she came up to him at a bar or something like that and talked to him for a while, essentially talking him into it; he might have a case.

I agree with you on legalizing the whole deal.  Make it safer, legal and make some money for our school systems off of it.  Maybe if we increase funding to schools, we won’t have so many men and women hooking.

@Cheese - Good to know, for my next date night.

lostrun
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 09:17 am: [report]

This is the same as undercover cop posing as a drug dealer/buyer.  No difference really, just trafficing different goods.  I agree w/ making prostitution legal.  It will make safer, and the government could use the taxes from it.

Raugiel
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 09:20 am: [report]

This is a pretty standard procedure and not considered entrapment.  DUI checkpoints, however, are not legal in many states. I am not sure what the rules are across the nation, but I know in my state the state’s consitution prohibits them as a warrentless search (we have stricter search rules in our state consitution than the federal). SO, depending on where you are, you might not have caught him without the prositution bust.

That said… prostitution should just be legal and regulated for the worker’s protection. Safer for everyone.

Debbie Downer
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 09:59 am: [report]

I disagree with you over the criminalization of sex work, but we can both agree that this particular situation was messed up.  The problem here isn’t the law itself, but the way it was used by the police department.

Prostitution, procuring for prostitution, etc. are roughly on the same plane as low-end drug possesion and drug dealing in that they are relatively minor offenses that rarely result in the maximum sentence.  Their usefulness comes in enabling prosecutors to gain leverage over low-level associates in criminal organizations who can then be made to testify against those higher up - the major drug dealers and the people traffickers who should be the law’s true targets.

Instead of doing quality police work, however, this police department has chosen to target johns, who yield no insight into criminal organizations.

william.paul
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 10:07 am: [report]

I think the quality of your entrapment defense is going to vary with the quality of your attorney.

I think that the cops are going after the easy targets here (the Johns). You’re never going to stop prostitution, but while it is still illegal, it would be better for all parties to go after the workers and especially their pimps. I say that not because I have anything against the trade (and I absolutely think it should be legal), but because there is a smaller pool of people actually committing a crime.

GreenAura
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 10:21 am: [report]

I agree w/ Jessica that prostitution should be legalized and regulated, just like in Nevada (although it’s not legal in the city limits of Vegas, just so you know!).  The women that work in the brothels practice as safely as they can, are regularly tested for STD’s, and they are in a safe(r) environment.  And instead of having to deal with a typically abusive pimp, the women report to a madam who makes sure they are never forced into doing anything. And drug use is unacceptable within most brothels. 

People would argue that brothels just support adultery and thereby perpetuate the cycle of unhealthy marriages.  But honestly speaking, if your spouse is going to cheat, then they will do it whether there are brothels around or not.  Wouldn’t you rather they do it in a safer environment?

Olivia Allin
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 10:23 am: [report]

I have no sympathy for the perpetrator in this case, but definitely see your point. But I’m curious, how do you guys feel about the objectifying female police force by forcing them to act as prostitutes? Is it just a necessarily evil part of the job? I would imagine it would be hard enough to command respect in a male-dominated work force without having to teeter around in stripper heels on the job?

spanishbutterfly
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 10:38 am: [report]

i do agree with that bein intrapment but as others clearly stated it wont hold up in a court of law..

@ olivia .. would u rather have the male officers dress as pro’s??  its part of the job

Jessica Wakeman
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 10:41 am: [report]

@Olivia Allen

I don’t think that the female cops were objectified by posing as prostitutes. It’s just part of the job.

Julie, the cop who was doing it, was about 30- or 40-something-years-old, fully aware of what she was doing, and seemed completely in control of the situation all times. I got the sense she was not just some random female cop who was asked to pose as a prostitute, but someone who was experienced, knew the ins-and-outs of the johns/prostitutes relationship, and knew how to dress and how to behave.

Just based on what little I saw of the practice from the “Police Women of Broaward County” show, I actually she got respect and kudos from her male colleagues for what she did.

That could just be how the show was edited, though.

sadie
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 11:12 am: [report]

“Julie’s actions could have hypothetically prevented diseases from being spread to innocent victims.”
By that logic shouldn’t we just arrest sluts too?

I find it hard to imagine the police don’t have more serious crimes to investigate. This just seems like shooting fish in a barrel. Who are they protecting and serving with this work?

Prostitution should definitely be legalized and regulated. It’s already legal in many forms any way. You’re allowed to marry for money (having sex for money). You’re allowed to be in porn (having sex for money). Why aren’t you allowed to just straight up charge $50 for a BJ?

Coral
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 12:02 pm: [report]

I definitely don’t think prostitution should be legalized. And I think that cops posing as prostitutes can make the world of prostitution both safer and more dangerous. Young girls and women are prostitutes, they are being used by their clients, which is key to note, and often times they are runaways who come from bad home lives and with not much a future in mind. It is not right for society to allow young women to continue to batter their self esteem and themselves in such a way by making prostitution legal. It does not matter if it is safer, with STD testing, and with regulating pimps, because the act of selling one self for sex completely devalues the woman. It is objectifying the woman, but the more important part is that these women deserve better—and trust me, they all do want a better life. No one wants to be on street corner giving out sex for a little bit of cash.

sadie
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 12:43 pm: [report]

@coral
First of all, why do you assume all prostitutes are women or all prostitutes are on the street or all prostitutes hate their jobs?

I think I would be pretty miserable as a trophy wife, because it’s not much different than prostitution. However, I don’t presume to know what would make another person happy and I don’t think we should ban that form of prostitution either. There are tons of jobs I would not want, that doesn’t mean I want to prevent others from having them.

Are there some underage girls who run away from (probably abusive) homes and turn to prostitution? Sure. I don’t think anyone hear advocating the legalization of sex work wants teen runaways doing it. The fact is, there are consenting adults who choose to make their living this way. They aren’t under duress. They aren’t underage. They don’t need society’s paternalistic we-know-what’s-best-for-you attitude.

I completely respect that you don’t want to do sex work and you would feel devalued. I think the same can be said for plenty of jobs. No one here is in a position to make blanket assessments about another person’s feelings or wants. When it comes to adults, let them make up their own minds about what they want to do.

Coral
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 01:18 pm: [report]

@sadie: Not all prostitutes are women, but certainly most are. And I’m not comparing prostitution to trophy wives, because they are different. But I would not want to be a trophy wife either. I know lots about the young women involved in prostitution, and most of them are not happy to be doing what they are doing. Trust me, I have been down that path before. The fact of the matter is that most prostitutes are teen runaways or were teen runaways when they started—just because they are legally an adult now doesn’t mean that they are not deserving of our help. Many prostitutes are either involved in drugs or alcohol themselves, or involved in dealing. Most prostitutes have been physically or sexually abused in some way, and prostitution is just allowing more abuse to continue. No one should have to pay for sex, and the people that do pay for sex are just stooping down to a lower level. Prostitutes have to separate the emotional and physical feelings from sex in order to feel numb and sane.

sadie
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 01:38 pm: [report]

coral, those are a lot of broad generalizations. Where are you getting this information? Is this just the people you know or can you point to some research that verifies that most prostitutes are female, runaways, addicts, miserable, abused, etc?

Also, why do you assume paying for sex is a bad thing? What about people who are disabled or disfigured? It may be extremely difficult for them to find a willing partner who isn’t paid. Should they just be celibate? Why do you assume all johns are mistreating or abusing prostitutes?

As for separating sex from feelings, you certainly don’t have to be a sex worker to do that. Sex does not have to be about feelings.

Coral
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 01:56 pm: [report]

As I have said before, I have found myself in very similar situations and I can understand where a prostitute is coming from. I have also read numerous articles and seen some documentaries, but I do not have any links to cite my information. Prostitutes in Nevada, where it is legalized, are generally happier, but from my readings, most still do not want to be a prostitute, and they dislike the way they are treated.

And anyone that pays for something that should be free is stooping down to a lower level—or they just have way too much money to spend. And there are plenty of disabled people who have sex and who are also involved in relationships. Any person that pays for sex is also devaluing because it is saying that they are not worthy of someone who can love them. I never said that clients are abusing prostitutes. But the actual act of prostituting one self is abusive to the prostitute. So in a way, the clients that pay for sex allow that to occur.

And how can you say the sex does not have to be about feelings?! Sex is very intimate, and it involves trust and passion. Any sexual act is about emotions and feelings, and trust me, it takes years for a prostitute to overcome that. Prostitutes deserve to be loved and to have a healthy relationship with a person they choose to be with.

joyy
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:04 pm: [report]

@Coral - just because you see sex as something always equalling emotional attachment doesn’t mean that’s what it’s like for everyone every time.  Try to understand that others experience life differently than you.

sadie
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:11 pm: [report]

Coral, it sounds like you had a bad experience and you’re using your experience to make generalizations about everyone else’s experiences. If you can find any actual studies that back any of this up, I’d love to see them. I think a sensationalized report about specific people doesn’t necessarily speak to the experiences of the entire sex worker community.

I am sure lots of disabled or disfigured people have partners. That doesn’t mean there are some who find getting a partner extremely difficult. I can totally understand why someone in that situation might choose to pay for sex. There are probably other reasons people choose to pay for sex, I don’t really think they’re necessarily evil. It doesn’t mean they think they don’t deserve love, it doesn’t mean they think the prostitute doesn’t deserve love.

I say sex does not have to be about feelings because it doesn’t. I’ve had plenty of sex with people I didn’t love or trust or have an emotional connection to. I still had a great time. Sometimes sex is just sex. I realize some people can’t enjoy sex without love but it’s not true for all people. It’s also not true that just because someone’s a prostitute that they aren’t loved and don’t have a romantic partner.

bogart4017
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:16 pm: [report]

I’m undecided about legalized prostitution but i do know this: i wouldnt worry about entrapment. Since its illegal i will not persue it therefore no worries about my name turning up in the paper. (This county has an unfunny habit of publishing names and pictures of johns in the local paper)

Coral
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:17 pm: [report]

@joyy: Sex is a very emotional bond—for everyone, whether or not one wants to admit it. One has to be very open (whether or not that involves trust or love) in order to have sex with another person. Why do you think one night stands are not something everyone wants to participate in? I very much understand that people experience life differently than me.

Considering the fact that many prostitutes are very young, it’s not right for anyone to assume that they’re okay. Heck, they don’t even know what they want for themselves.

I will try to find some of the info I have looked st before.

sadie
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:27 pm: [report]

So at what age do people know what they want for themselves? 18, 21, 30? If we are going to pick such an age maybe we shouldn’t let people vote or get married or join the military until they reach that age, afterall, they don’t know what they want, right?

Not everyone wants one night stands, but some people (in fact, a lot of people) DO want them.

I don’t think anyone is assuming all prostitutes are doing great, we’re just not assuming none of them are.

joyy
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:28 pm: [report]

@Coral - people who actually understand that others experience life differently than them don’t run around asserting that X is always this or that for everyone.  That’s just silly.

*sam*
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:33 pm: [report]

Personally, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with legalizing prostitution—so long as, like Jessica & others have stated, it’s almost hellishly regulated. However, I do agree with some of the ‘facts’ that Coral has been mentioning. I’ve read some of the same scenarios myself, and IMHO, part of that regulation and oversight that should come with legalizing the sex trade should involve (regular) mental check-ups. Not every prostitute enjoys the work, just as not everyone hates it either. I just think there’s something to be said a/b the possibility of devaluing one’s life when one’s essentially selling themselves. Sex can just be sex, but let’s face it, it’s still private/intimate in many ways (not necessarily emotionally either) and when you’re selling that part of yourself, the possibility of devaluing your own life/existence can become more real.

william.paul
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:33 pm: [report]

@Coral, It isn’t the world’s oldest profession without reason. If it weren’t for the WCTU (you can also partially thank them for prohibition) it would probably still be legal here in the U.S.

Admittedly we should make every effort to avoid the kind of domestic situations that lead to young girls (and boys to be fair) to take this up, but what happens between consenting adults is their business. I have to wonder if you are also pro-life.

ThatChick
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:33 pm: [report]

If you’re going to pick up a hooker off the street, you can tell which ones are cops by seeing if they have all their teeth. Just sayin’

Coral
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:39 pm: [report]

“The Committee on Sexual Offences Against Children and Youth (1984) found that 93% of female and 97% of male prostitutes had run away from home at least once (as cited in Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics, 1993, p. 10). This means youth are living or spending a great deal of time on the street.”

“Prostitution being a long term effect of sexual abuse is a theory that has received support from numerous researchers. Researchers Farley and Barkan (1998), in a sample of 130 adult prostitutes, found that 57% had experienced childhood sexual abuse, with an average of 3 abusers each. Additionally, 49% of this sample experienced physical abuse as children (p. 39). In another study, Nadon, Koverola and Schudermann (1998) found that 68% of female prostitutes in their sample experienced childhood sexual abuse (p. 214). Foti (1994) compared children who had and had not been sexually abused, and determined that the participants who were sexually abused as children were twice as likely to become prostitutes (as cited in Nadon et al., p. 207).”

http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/prostitu.htm#factors

@william.paul: I am pro-life, although I would say that I am somewhat accepting of abortions. I am against most abortions, as I do believe that a fetus is life, but there are other situations that occur and complicate my belief on it. I’m not sure I see any relation to prostitution though.

sadie
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 02:46 pm: [report]

Try googling Tracy Quan, she is a sex worker turned author and activist. Her story does not reflect the picture being painted here. I also wish Alexa would comment on this thread. I think she’d tell you she doesn’t feel the need to be rescued.

I do want sex work regulated. I don’t want children doing sex work. What I do want is for society to stop judging and policing adult sexual behavior.

avalari
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 03:07 pm: [report]

Regardless of my opinion of it being legal or not, I live in Broward County. I worked with a girl who had quite a few friends that were prostitutes. The core group of them had a lady “pimp” and they all worked out of the same house and they did it because it was easy money. One of them had HIV and didn’t care who she gave it to, which is freaking horrible. Some of them did parties for some pretty big sports players and could make more in a night than I make in a month. They were treated like crap but didn’t care because of the money. Scaring Johns isn’t going to stop any of it. Maybe the streetside hookers, but trust me, down here the majority of it doesn’t go on on street corners. It’s a lot more discreet. Will making it legal change a thing other than lower the property values is certain areas? I doubt it.

BlueVibe
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 03:12 pm: [report]

I think this is part of the job.  Some jobs require you to do unpleasant things.  I used to work for a veterinarian, which mean I got to bottle-feed orphaned kittens.  However, it also meant I occasionally had to decapitate animals for rabies testing.  Not fun.  But necessary.  *Somebody* has to do it, and I don’t think it would have been fair of me always to insist that one of my coworkers do it.

Whether you agree with it not, prostitution is currently illegal, so this is still part of a cop’s job.  Cops also have to pose as pedophiles and other repulsive characters, too.

sportzriter13
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 03:36 pm: [report]

Totally agree-we need to decriminalize prostitution so that diseases are not spread, those who want to do it/pay for it can (sex between two strangers is legal-until money is exchanged), and the police can go after more important crimes like drugs or trafficking (may be easier to find trafficers because more witnesses will be able to come forward without fear of punishment).
As long as it takes place between two consenting adults, who gives a damn if money is involved!
That’s what it comes down to-atleast that prostitute is gainfully involved.
Check out the movie “The best little whorehouse in texas” (Dolly parton and burt reynolds are in it, the movie is based on a true story).

sportzriter13
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 03:44 pm: [report]

*employed
also, by legalizing it will make it easier for uncle sam to collect taxes.
That may mean more gov’t money and, *gasp* maybe lower taxes.
Making it illegal hasn’t stopped anyone.

william.paul
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 03:46 pm: [report]

@Coral the relationship is what freedoms an individual has with their own body. Also, the conclusion of the page you linked to doesn’t come across as a resounding support for having it remain criminalized.

At any rate, it focuses almost entirely on street walkers, which nearly everyone admits is harmful both to the community and to the workers.

Coral
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 04:24 pm: [report]

@william.paul: I don’t think prostitution should be legalized, but I do think it should be decriminalized. Yes, the articles does have some things I disagree with. But never did I say that it should remain fully criminalized.

Alexa
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 04:48 pm: [report]

@Coral, sweety, you’ve been watching too much TV.  There are plenty of women who work as prostitutes who made the conscious decision to do the work and enjoy what they do.  You spend more time on Frisky generalizing and painting everyone with a broad brush than any person I’ve seen. 

Those stats you cited are relevant only to those working the streets, which comprise about 10% of the total number of people working in prostitution.  The overwhelming majority of people who do this work do so inside, off the street.  And if you think arresting these women and tossing them in jail is “rescuing” them, you really are clueless.  Giving them a record prevents them from getting any other job, prevents them from getting many forms of help, and so forth.  So if that’s your idea of “rescuing” them, I suggest that vast majority of them would tell you thanks, but no thanks. 

As for the original point about entrapment, courts ruled a long time ago that these kinds of stings were not entrapment, and are perfectly legal, though it appeared to me that the Broward County officers came very close (if they ask the guy for money for sex rather than him offering it, it does become entrapment).  My home is in Broward County, and I very much recognize that strip of Federal Highway they were operating on. lol

And someone asked about the female officers.  They are all volunteers - they’re not told to do this or forced to do it.

becknee
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 05:16 pm: [report]

This was a really thought-provoking article, Jessica. Thanks for always being willing to tackle the complex subjects!

Coral
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 05:31 pm: [report]

@Alexa: Actually I almost never watch TV—it’s a waste of time and I don’t know why you assume that. I agree that there are women out there who enjoy prostituting, but there are still too many of them that do it for ‘easy money’ and who are not aware of the consequences they might feel years later. You also have to realize that there are plenty of sex workers (who are not in the streets) who regret their actions many years later. I know many people close to me who were involved in such and some regret it and some do not.

And you are putting words in my mouth because I never said anywhere that prostitutes should be ‘rescued’ by being tossed in jail. Generally, I don’t believe prison is a good option for most criminals.

Gingee
wrote on August 11 2009 @ 08:56 pm: [report]

Yes, I am for it.  But then I live in a city known for being the Pervert Capital of the US of A, and ANYTHING that stops these creeps from going after teenaged girls or teenaged boys is jake by me.

Any guy too cheap and/or stupid to purchase a copy of Playboy and go off alone and masturbate is just asking for a beat down, and of course, if he is married, he puts his wife at risk.

Frederica Bimble
wrote on August 12 2009 @ 06:25 am: [report]

“A police woman pretending to be a sex worker” is excessive?  On what planet?  It was that man’s choice to pull over and broker a deal with the woman HE thought was a prostitute.  Where exactly is the entrapment?  If I see someone selling greasy cheeseburgers at a roadside cafe, I don’t buy them because I don’t eat them.  This man was approaching what he thought was a REAL prostitute.  There is no entrapment at all.  The notion is ridiculous.  Had the police officer flagged this man down, hiked up her skirt and said, “eh, you know you want it!”  Then maybe, there would be a case but if a person goes out looking for sex, drugs, a fight – whatever, it is not entrapment when they get caught doing something illegal.  I think the writer of this article is being swayed by a fantasy and opinion and not considering the reality which is, the law is the law and until it is changed or adjusted, what that man did is a crime.

Alexa
wrote on August 12 2009 @ 06:55 am: [report]

@Frederica, entrapment is the enticement of someone to do something they wouldn’t have otherwise done.  You can construct a reasonable argument that, had that police woman not been there, the people being caught would not have stopped.  Would they if there had been another prostitute there?  Perhaps, but you can’t know that with a reasonable certainty (especially since the police almost invariably use very attractive females).  There are occasional lower court rulings that these kinds of operations are entrapment and charges are dismissed.

lawyrgrl
wrote on August 12 2009 @ 08:43 pm: [report]

Entrapment requires some sort of trickery, essentially compelling a person to do something that they would not normally have done.  Doesn’t sound like there is a reasonable case for entrapment here.  There is nothing tricky - pun fully intended - about “this is what I’ll do - how much will you give me to do it to you?” 

That said, I agree with the majority of writers - prostitution should be legal.  Regulated and taxed and overseen by the Dept. of Health but totally legal.

moonblossom
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 10:01 am: [report]

I love hearing about johns getting busted. They are the real problem. I think we should go with laws similar to Sweden - selling sex is legal, but buying it is illegal. Then the prostitute isn’t the one being held criminally liable.

I think any so-called choice by sex workers is a libertarian delusion. No one wants to be a sex worker and no one does well in that life…its a miserable existance, regardless of what anyone says otherwise. Also - women invariably get the short end of the stick. Every stinkin’ time.

As for entrapment - if there is ANY propensity whatsoever on the part of the criminal then they are going to fail with the entrapment defense. It has to be 100% the police’s idea before entrapment would succeed. In the case of the show the fact that the guy stopped a scantily clad woman in an area known for street walkers is enough to take away his entrapment defense.

Alexa
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 10:39 am: [report]

@moonblossom, I am so sick and tired of hearing people like you who don’t have the foggiest clue what they’re talking about espouse this ridiculous garbage.  There have been loads of sex workers who’ve publicly stated they not only went into it voluntarily, but many of them knew from a young age that’s what they wanted to do.  Tracy Quan, the author of Manhattan Call Girl, for example, knew at age 10 she wanted to be a prostitute.  Amanda Brooks, the woman who’s written books on how to become an escort, knew at age 9 that was what she wanted to do.  There are plenty of stories from women who explain why they went into sex work (prostitution, porn, etc.) at http://www.myfirstprofessionalsex.com

*I* chose to go into sex work, first as a dancer and now as an escort.

Sex worker are not a monolith - you don’t get to cast all of us with a single color brush.  Are some forced/coerced into doing it?  Absolutely.  The same is true for many other jobs, but I bet you don’t walk around casting aspersions on the other workers in those jobs because of it.

Just today there was a study released that showed the majority of women who are in sex work are there voluntarily, and that laws like those of Sweden and most of the U.S. criminalizing sex work actually serve to harm sex workers rather than protect them.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/14/20090812/tpl-new-evidence-devastates-govt-sex-wor-81c5b50.html

So please, STFU with your tired old “none of them want to be doing sex work” crap.  You don’t know what you’re talking about.

william.paul
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 10:47 am: [report]

@lawyrgrl I disagree that it requires trickery, although employing some forms of trickery would probably cross that line. For example, vice cops are allowed to lie about not being police officers. For there to be entrapment, the officer has to break a law in order to get the John to break it.

@moonblossom I disagree about it being a delusion and the worker always getting the short end of the deal. I’ll fully admit that street walkers and minors are exploited and royally screwed, but the life a high-end independent escort leads bears almost no resemblance to that.

moonblossom
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 11:35 am: [report]

@Alexa - you don’t know my education or my experience so you’re wrong to say I don’t have the foggiest clue. If you disagree with my particular comment…so be it. But don’t assume you know me or what I know. You don’t.

And if you even read my comment you would know that Sweden has different laws than the US. Here’s a link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23651087/

“STFU” really??? Good for you.

Alexa
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 11:38 am: [report]

@moonblossom, it doesn’t matter what your education or experience is.  You’re spouting off false information.  If you’re claiming to be educated on the subject or have some experience in it, I’d suggest you haven’t learned very well, since I posted information that directly contradicts the assertions you made.

And where did I say anything about the laws in Sweden and the U.S. being the same?  Believe me, I am intimately familiar with the laws in both countries.

moonblossom
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 11:47 am: [report]

@Alexa - “laws like those of Sweden and most of the U.S. criminalizing sex work”

“and” pretty much implies you were referring to Sweden AND the US laws that criminalize sex work. Sweden’s laws do not criminalize sex work - they criminalize sex buying.

You say my education or experience doesn’t matter, but somehow yours does?

Alexa
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 11:49 am: [report]

@moonblossom, of course, you want to get into a semantic debate.  Making the purchase of sex illegal is no different than making the selling of sex illegal.  They both drive the business underground and make it unregulated, unseen, uncontrollable, more dangerous to those involved, etc.  From a practical perspective, sex work in Sweden *is* illegal because it cannot be done legally.

sadie
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 08:37 pm: [report]

@moonblossom (referring to Alexa)
“You say my education or experience doesn’t matter, but somehow yours does?”

Her experience does matter actually since, as she said, she is a sex worker who (contrary to your opinion) wants to be a sex worker and is doing well with that life.

For all the claims made in the interest in feminism and respect for women, why can’t a woman be respected enough to know what she wants and what works well for her? Why do you think you know what’s better for Alexa than she does?

moonblossom
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 09:07 pm: [report]

OK. According to Alexa some prostitute turned author knew she wanted to be a prostitute when she was 10. Um. Yeah. The sole fact that a 10 year old even knew what prostitution was is in and of itself horrific. The fact that a 10 year old “knew” she wanted her career to consist of any man with a dollar in his pocket to shoot cum in her face is unspeakable. Prostitutes and strippers alike can all claim, until they run out of air, how its their choice. They have the absolute right to say that. And I have the absolute right to disagree.

And Alexa and Sadie…you still don’t know my education or experience. For all you know I’m a virgin writing from seminary….or a pro writing in between clients. We all know what ASSuming does….

Alexa
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 09:12 pm: [report]

@moonblossom, No, I am 110% positive you’re not a sex worker.  lol

Did you also ignore that report that I posted the link to?  Why do you insist on ignoring mounds of evidence put in front of you?  Don’t answer that.  I know the answer already.

It’s interesting how people like you can dismiss an entire group of people who actually do the work as if we don’t matter.  We’re more often dehumanized by people like you than even the worst clients we have to put up with (you know, the ones you claim treat us so badly).

william.paul
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 09:23 pm: [report]

@moonblossom, then why don’t you educate us as to your background.

abbyabitha
wrote on August 13 2009 @ 10:26 pm: [report]

@moonblossom, i dont think it would make a difference if you educated them on your background. Lets just all go vote for Palin in 2012.

kit1811
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 12:59 pm: [report]

I’d like to step to the side of the dominant argument here.  First, I absolutely agree that sex work should be legal:  regulated, taxed, and legal. 

My feelings about street-level sex work are tainted by my knowledge of human trafficking world wide and how many women are tricked into paying off coyotes by tricking themselves out, or promised jobs as maids or waitresses and finding themselves in near slave-like conditions. Women, some men, underage girls and boys are traded like baseball cards. Right here, in San Francsco. There is a lot of pro-bono work being done to grant asylum to women who get busted for prostituton they have been forced into.  They wouldn’t be if the demand wasn’t there.  Or, it is to be hoped, if it were legal, regulated and etc.

I guess the best analogy to what I’m trying to express is the current situation in Mexico, where in some states and cities the drug cartels own the police, routinely kidnap people, kill and terrorize and so forth - but that is not happening in a vacuum.  Most drugs handled by the Mexican cartels are being consumed in the US.  So deciding to buy pot, like deciding to patronize an illegally-working sex worker (legally in this country or not), is a political act, with global consequences.  Increase the demand > increase the supply > increase the amounts of money involved > increase the level of violence.  So until it is legalized (and safe for the workers) I do have a problem with, especially street-level, prostitution.  I have a problem with street drugs for the very same reason.  Entire violent industries are built up here and abroad because of our desire to feel pleasure of some sort or another.

I admit to being one of those freaky people who over-analyzes a lot of my actions - (drive or bus?  organic and trucked from afar, or non-organic and local?) and I respect that not everyone wants to or is capable of seeing the hidden, potentially half-a-world-away consequences of what they do.  I’m glad for that, actually.

As for the entrapment argument, I absolutely do not buy it.  Bait cops are awesome.  Anyone who would claim entrapment by the situation described above on ‘Broward County’ is most likely the kind of person whose self-esteem issues will ALWAYS cause him/her to try to shift blame elsewhere.  We Americans have an astonishing ability to make everything someone else’s fault. 

Finally, as long as the laws are what they are, I’m sick and tired of prostitutes being jailed and getting a record, but not the men (and women) who patronize them.

Sonic
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 09:17 pm: [report]

As I’ve stated before elsewhere on the site, I have no problems at all with legalizing prostitution and enacting strict regulations to guard the prostitutes. 

I guess my biggest concern is that the regulations wouldn’t make a difference (wouldn’t be enforced, recognized) and the fact that prostitution would be legalized would make it more available, which would be bad if the regulations weren’t enforced. 

So:  if legalized and rigidly enforced, go for it.  But it’s like I mentioned with doctors who provide abortions - it may be legal, but if people don’t like it, they’ll find ways to squirm out of protecting the doctor’s or the prostitute’s rights and the pros will suffer for it, regardless of what the laws are.