Is “Trash Night” The Male Version Of “Date Night”?

GreenAura
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 12:42 pm: [report]

Don’t worry Wendy, I’ve been married for over 8 years and my marriage has never suffered from “Trash Night”. Where is the fun in scheduling sex?? I find that sad actually.  This Theresa gal sounds like a love-making scrooge.  Her poor husband must think that it is so terribly bad for her that she can’t bear doing anything but the absolute minimum.  This is going to sound harsh, but I wouldn’t be surprised if has a go-to gal on the side.  Just don’t be a prude when it comes to your husband and his needs and you’ll be fine!!

Riley
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 12:45 pm: [report]

I’d rather be dead than schedule sex.  If the passion is that far gone, what is the point?  I couldn’t have fun if she isn’t really into it.

I think the fact that you are worried means you won’t have this problem.

sadie
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 12:49 pm: [report]

I feel sorry for the husbands in this article. We’re married. We’ve been together over 5 years. We fool around about 5 times/week on average. It is almost always mutual although I might initiate things slightly more often than he does. I found this statement telling “What happened to the days before kids when the begging was mutual?” Does this mean women lose interest in sex after kids?

emflow
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 12:50 pm: [report]

The prospect of “Trash Night” sounds almost as horrifying as the possibility that two forms of birth control can simultaneously fail.

lemonsugar
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 12:52 pm: [report]

Wow this is so not the typical situation. What a sad situation. Women like this one wonder why their men stray. Sex is the lubricant(pardon the pun) that keeps everything else running smoothly. If there’s no intimacy in the relationship then it’s basically a room mate you’ve got.

Poor fella…I hope he has someone on the side to enjoy him and for him to enjoy. Maybe he should leave her at the curb with the trash.

Shasta
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 12:52 pm: [report]

@GreenAura is spot on.  He either has a go-to-gal, will have one shortly or will be divorced in two years.

These people don’t even have kids. Their marriage sounds like drudgery.

emflow
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 01:13 pm: [report]

Um, wait. Why are people labeling this woman some kind of frigid, horrible wife? Isn’t a woman in a relationship aloud to not feel like sex?

If she’s never in the mood it’s a problem, but it doesn’t mean she’s frigid. Even if she is frigid that does not justify cheating. Fix the relationship or get out of it BEFORE looking for sex somewhere else. And why is her husband apparently okay with sex without real intimacy - cause I seriously doubt there’s genuine intimacy during scheduled sex?

QTKT
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 01:47 pm: [report]

I’m with emflow. Just because she isn’t always in the mood when he is, doesn’t mean she is awful and most definitely does not give the husband the right to step out on his commitment to her. It is another thing if she’s never in the mood, then it’s time for counseling/dr’s appointment.

But I will take it a step further. I have had to schedule intimacy with my partner. Not because one of us wanted it more than the other, but because we were so busy! A few months ago we were both under heavy deadlines at work and came home tired and stressed. We both knew some intimacy would not only help with the stress, but ensure that we didn’t take out it on each other. It really helped to make the time even though at first it was just one more thing on my ‘to do’ list. I found myself (and my partner) scheduling it more than we were having sex prior.

In the end, the deadlines passed and everything went back to normal. But this isn’t a practice I would rule out in the future, especially once kids and more responsibilities are added to the mix.

GreenAura
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 01:49 pm: [report]

@ emflow: yes, it’s okay to not want sex all the time, but this woman asked her husband “What is the minimal number of times a week that you need sex in order to be satisfied?” That question suggests that she is only willing to do the minimum, so yes, she DOES sound frigid to me.  Cheating is never justified, but she shouldn’t be surprised when/if it happens.  And you actually gave a reason why her husband could possibly start cheating with your statement “I seriously doubt there’s genuine intimacy during scheduled sex”.  Every human needs to feel intimacy in their relationship, and if they don’t, then they will probably look elsewhere.  But hopefully after the divorce proceedings.

Joey Daytona
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 01:50 pm: [report]

I celebrate “Garbage Eve” with the ritualistic cleansing of the funky furry meat-cakes in the ‘fridge… good times.

Raugiel
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 01:50 pm: [report]

emflow has a good point. If “tired of his constant begging” means that he was pestering her SO MUCH that she no longer really ever felt like having sex (it can happen, though we really don’t know what happened with these two), then the problem could be on his end. Even a person with a healthy sex drive can lose interest if they start to feel pressured to do it.

pinkwhiskey
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 01:52 pm: [report]

I dated a guy whose parents had scheduled sex every Tuesday night. How did I find this out? They told me as they were kicking me out of their house on Tuesday afternoon! How unromantic and un-spontaneous can you get. If you’ve got young children it’s one thing to make sure that you set at least some couple time aside, but with no kids, or grown kids, that’s just boring.

Oliveira
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 01:57 pm: [report]

OH DEAR—I have just decided to never become heterosexual.

jojo32
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 02:06 pm: [report]

Hahaha this reminds me of the “Flight of the Concords - Business Time” skit.  LOL

ThatChick
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 02:12 pm: [report]

The whole story is really sad. He’s neglected and she’s pressured. Without therapy, they’ll probably fall by the wayside.

This isn’t a typical marriage, and you probably have nothing to worry about.

However, there are marriages out there that don’t need as much sex as others. I have 2 friends that are happily married and only get some a few times a year. Whatever works.

Kati-Anne
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 05:16 pm: [report]

If it works for them, who cares? If you don’t like it, then keep on having as much unscheduled sex as you can get and don’t give it a corny name, unless, that is, you want to. Problem solved.

Kesseire
wrote on July 28 2009 @ 05:52 pm: [report]

I’m disturbed by comments that suggest a woman is “frigid” if she doesn’t put out in order to meet her husband’s demands for sex, and that she should expect him to “step out” with other women if she doesn’t comply. What if instead of two times a week he was demanding it six times a day? That is the situation for one married couple I know; is that wife still “frigid” for not complying with her husband’s demands? What if a woman said she wanted, minimum, eight hours of foot massages every week - would the husband be an “#&@$%” or “afraid of touch” or what-have-you for feeling unhappy about it? Should he expect her to hire a male prostitute so she can get what she’s missing at home?

If a woman is engaging in sex acts which she doesn’t want so that she can “keep” her husband, then she is prostituting herself. No party in a marriage should feel forced to use their body as a tool to fill the other partner’s personal desires. And it is a desire. Sex is not a “need”. Sex is a “want”.

This marriage sounds like both parties are unhappy, and I definitely think some sort of counseling is in order. But I think most of the people throwing stones at the wife are missing the point - neither the wife NOR the husband sound happy. He feels like he’s getting sex grudgingly, and she feels forced to engage in sex she doesn’t want. The husband could just have said, “If you feel like sex, let me know,” and started masturbating regularly.

They’re doing the best they can with their #&@$% situation, and BOTH are compromising. Whether the marriage is worth continuing despite their unhappiness is up to them to decide, and for no one else to judge.

wonderfultonight
wrote on July 30 2009 @ 11:01 pm: [report]

It is sad to read this. Of course, a woman has the right to not feel like having sex, but it sounds like the couple have very mismatched sex drives. Both are unhappy. She is upset because he is pestering her for sex. He is upset because she seems to say “No” a lot. It’s too bad they didn’t find this out before they got married. I realize that alot of things enter into the equation, jobs, kids, worry about bills, parents, illness, even if one is still attending school…and the list is different for every couple.

Therapy might help, but it doesn’t sound like this marriage much chance. If they are labeling their sex life “trash night”, then the honeymoon is definitely over.

As some of you have pointed out, there doesn’t seem to be much intimacy here - and real intimacy goes beyond the actual sex act to how a loving couple treat each other in general.

curious_hubby
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 06:35 am: [report]

There are some interesting comments to this article, and I enjoyed reading them but I have to disagree especially with Kessiere.  In a long term relationship you lovingly put one of your most basic needs (check a psych textbook) in someone else’s hands.  If you are a 15 yr old girl being pressured for sex thats a problem, but a spouse (husband or wife) should be constantly trying to make sure their partner’s needs are taken care of.
Being lovers (having sex) is the defining characteristic of marriage.  We all have friends, family, if you are like me you tell lots of people “I love you” but for physical love its your partner who you count on. 
I also can’t imagine the guy just all of a sudden wanted sex I imagine the wife in this situation knew he liked sex.  I think its a sad state of affairs when pop culture and television support the idea that “oh well, we never have sex…” thats a major problem.  Its perfectly ok for the wife to say no to intercourse and its her body but she does have a responsibility to take care of her partner’s needs and she chose to be in a relationship built

spinal11
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 08:17 am: [report]

Her husband shouldn’t HAVE to beg for sex, she should keep him satisfied even if it feels like a duty for her. There are other things she can do besides intercourse to make him happy with minimal stress to her. I assume she knew what she was getting when she married him, and he didn’t morph into some sexual beast overnight. If he’s a good husband and takes care of her needs, there’s no reason to withhold or restrict something he needs.

Some days I love getting up and going to work, and some days I can’t stand it - but I go anyway because it’s my responsibility and it keeps life flowing smoothly. I see sex within marriage as the same thing. If you want to be the ONLY source of sex for your partner (i.e. no cheating) you need to give them sex regularly! And don’t act like you’re doing them some huge grudging favor! Come on, it’s a pretty basic component of relationships.

GreenAura
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 08:41 am: [report]

I think it also needs to be said that intimacy does not always = sex.  Maybe it’s intimacy he’s craving, but thinking sex will fill that void.  Snuggle more!  Sometimes just laying in each others arms, or curling up under the blankets to watch a movie is completely satisfying in itself!

pragmatryst
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 09:33 am: [report]

spinal11: “I assume she knew what she was getting when she married him, and he didn’t morph into some sexual beast overnight.”

That’s the first thought that came to my mind and I was wondering if the reverse was true as well.  If she was a willing and able partner to more frequent sex before they got married, it wasn’t unreasonable for him to expect things to continue that way after they got married.  If she honestly had a stronger sex drive in the past, it’s certainly worth the time and effort for her to get a medical check-up and/or try some couples’ counseling.  Unfortunately, if she was never really on board with this from the start but gave him what he wanted out of a misguided desire to please him, or worse did it out of fear of losing him, then no amount of talk therapy, cuddling, or role playing is going to make him want sex less or make her want it more.  If that’s the case, this problem will never go away and if there are no kids in the picture yet, they would do well to cut their losses and find more compatible partners.  A lifetime of constant compromising over one of the fundamental building blocks of a relationship is not a recipe for happily ever after.

curious_hubby
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 10:27 am: [report]

Well said pragmatryst.  The sad thing is in some social circles I have run screaming from this is joked about as the “norm”.  Oh yeah, married no sex.  You also make great points about past history and expectations, of course that is not detailed in the article so its hard to tell, but I think most men are pretty up front about liking sex and hopefully most women are too.  I just don’t get what level of hang ups you would have when you are in a committed, loving monogomous relationship and wouldn’t want to have sex.  Sounds like either they have other issues or aren’t doing it quite right
The worst part of the article might be the whole view of “absolute minimum” what a way to look at life.  For me, the day after making love to my wife I’m flying high, day 2 I still feel the glow and am remembering the phrase you can never have too much of a good thing, day 3 I am thinking more would be nice, day 4 I’m wondering “doesn’t she want me?” and by about day 5 at times I’m thinking WTF, why am I married again?

It should not be a chore, a burden or a negotiation it should be, wow we are lucky enough to be together and get to love each other.

pragmatryst
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 11:47 am: [report]

@curious_hubby: “I just don’t get what level of hang ups you would have when you are in a committed, loving monogomous relationship and wouldn’t want to have sex.  Sounds like either they have other issues or aren’t doing it quite right.”

I wondered about that too, but after further investigation it would appear that the author of the original Huffington Post article and her husband have one of the most common issues leading to sudden onset post marital libido loss—young kids.  Apparently she got raked over the coals in the Huffington comments section.

“You always run the risk of being attacked, of course, when you write about something so private. But I suspect most people can’t appreciate the sheer fatigue a working mom of young kids feels at the end of the day ... when you have invested 10 hours of your entire self into your work and settled the 21st argument between Thing One and Thing Two, throwing both into their rooms for the fifth emotional outburst of the day. Maybe I should have explained that I have trouble doing ANYTHING at night. I haven’t read in eight years, ever since the insomniac of a son was born, because I have no energy and even less concentration. The only thing I am good for after putting Katherine to bed is staring at the ceiling ... which I do for fifteen minutes before snoozing.  So throw the stones if you want, but I know in my heart that committing to sex at least twice a week is an act of love, not selfishness.” (Therese J. Borchard, from her “Beyond Blue” blog on 7/29/09 http://blog.beliefnet.com/beyondblue/2009/07/trash-night-and-the-sex-conund.html)

Unfortunately, nothing eases the load of raising kids except time.  At least the author’s husband doesn’t suffer from excessive trash buildup.  In her article, Ms. Borchard refers to a social gathering where this topic was discussed.  One of the guys bemoaned the fact that the trash only gets picked up at his place once a month.  Maybe he needs to start giving the garbage man a better Christmas tip.

wonderfultonight
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 11:51 am: [report]

In retrospect, it seems almost seems like the title of this article might have been that “trash night was the wife’s idea of sex night.” A few of you mentioned that the guy will/should have someone on the side, but no one has suggested that the opposite may already be true. Barring any health reasons, outside stress, etc., as mentioned before, to demand the “absolute minimum” as to how much sex she is willing to engage in with her husband sounds a bit like she may be the one with an on-the-side interest - and maybe it’s a woman. It’s not exactly unheard of. This has been covered on another site if not this one already.

curious_hubby
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 01:17 pm: [report]

Good Point at the end of the post wonderfultonight, but why write about it if that is the case? Its a pretty complicated deception i guess.  Either her getting some or the typical excuse of being tired it is still the same b.s. and it is all too common.  I think its a maturity problem in most cases.  You CHOOSE to get married and make alife long committment then CHOOSE to have kids and oh then its all too much.  If she prioritized differently i’m sure she would find time and energy for sex. The truth is that its not that important to her she should have the guts to say it out loud to her hubby and in her writing.
She does not care enough about his needs to take care of them, period.  Lame

pragmatryst
wrote on July 31 2009 @ 04:12 pm: [report]

@curious_hubby: “You CHOOSE to get married and make alife long committment then CHOOSE to have kids and oh then its all too much.  If she prioritized differently i’m sure she would find time and energy for sex.”

Actually, dealing with young kids who need constant supervision, I can empathize with the “too tired” excuse.  If you don’t have enough energy and concentration for a simple relaxing activity like reading as the author notes, libido is pretty much shot to hell.  That said, at some point kids get older and don’t need the same level of care.  I imagine a lot of the “sexless marriage” situations started out fine, ran into years of neglect with young kids, and didn’t take the time to re-stack priorities when the pressure let up and the kids were more self-sufficient.  Maybe trash night is actually a great solution for stoking the embers until the couple can get back to giving their physical relationship the respect and emphasis it deserves.  I think the author could have done a much better job of selling that angle which is entirely different than suffering through a couple nights a week of pity sex to stop your husband from badgering you which is what her original article sounded like.

Elleohelle
wrote on August 1 2009 @ 06:05 am: [report]

I’m enjoying the difference between the comments in this article, and that involving cheating husbands getting their comeuppance from angry wives. The difference?
Here:
If a woman refuses sex like this, she should expect her husband to cheat!
There:
Cheaters are worthless scumbags who deserve everything they get and more!

Cheating is never okay, these two need to have a long conversation about their lives, and maybe seriously consider sex therapy or a permissible mistress. It’s better than this sad arrangement, or going behind each other’s backs.

lemonsugar
wrote on August 1 2009 @ 12:10 pm: [report]

Writing as a full time working Mom of 3 young kids 9,11 and 16. You can imagine we have a very very busy life. Sometimes we really do have to schedule a date to cherish one another the way we need to. Regardless of how exhausted we are there is always intimacy in our lives. If I could I’d be a couple of times a day girl, of course that’s not happening with young kids around the house. (believe me we make up for it when kids our out!)

Intimacy is our time to recharge, to find one another and bring back what it was we had before kids and all the responsibilities of sharing a home has. We can look at one another in the midst of a hectic time and know we have that oasis to look forward to. Without that everything else would fall apart.

If we were childless this of course would be less of an issue. We love what the kids bring to our lives and of course all the ups and downs of moulding these little and now not so little people into being the best they can be.

Regardless, without intimacy there is no glue to hold it all together. We are two individual people with individual needs that need to be met and respected. We have chosen to share our lives. If one finds intimacy so repugnant that the other has to beg for it then it’s time to re-evaluate the relationship. Kids or not.

I honestly wouldn’t blame him for finding it outside if I were so untouchable and I’m sure he wouldn’t either. To be in a monogamous relationship without sex and all it’s wonderful facets is unfathomable. Thank God it is for him too.

curious_hubby
wrote on August 9 2009 @ 06:32 am: [report]

Thank you Lemonsugar for a great reminder on how to choose to maintain the intimacy despite a hectic life and for asking the big question, why be in a monogogmous relationship without sex/having your needs cared for?

lemonsugar
wrote on August 9 2009 @ 09:30 am: [report]

Thank you curious_hubby. If we take a minute to remember what it was that brought us together in the first place, nurture that. Two fabulous individual personalities. They’re still there. Even if the dynamics of every day life has changed. Mmmm ain’t love grand! *smiles*

River
wrote on September 10 2009 @ 03:05 am: [report]

I’m noting an interesting discrepancy here amongst the normal feminist Frisky crowd (you know that’s why I love you girls and guys!). 

Wife refuses sex with Husband in USA, this is the fault of the woman only and situates her with the scarlet letter “F” for Frigid, making her a justifiable victim of an affair, case closed by the Frisky jury.

Wife refuses sex with Husband overseas (let’s say in Saudi Arabia), and she’s persecuted by law for not upholding her wifely duties. Frisky audience becomes incised at the powerless position of the woman who did not welcome her own husband’s advances, but must participate in sexual activity by law—RAPE by any other name— and we become one voice of solidarity for women’s rights.

Where did these two situations differ? The court of law? I argue that being exposed to public judgment is just as bad, but if that’s the case—why is it only bad if the government doesn’t support the women? Isn’t the act the same—forcing a woman into sex (sometimes through violence, sometimes through mental games such as guilt/badgering), married or not, constitutes rape.

I think the most frightening thing to see on the comments board was:

“Her husband shouldn’t HAVE to beg for sex, she should keep him satisfied even if it feels like a duty for her.”
“...she does have a responsibility to take care of her partner’s needs…”

Doesn’t that sound like a familiar argument, used time and again to justify persecution of the wife in cultures where they are allowed to not only throw away women like yesterday’s rubbish, but condone honour killings as well?

Just my two pence, guys.