Is Rape Still A Crime If The Rapist Was Sleepwalking?

peacock
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 01:19 pm: [report]

I don’t know about UK law, but for most criminal proceedings in the US the person charged has to act with intent, thus in this situation there was no intent to commit rape and he could not be found guilty if he was sleepwalking.

msu.umich
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 01:21 pm: [report]

Yeah, peacock’s right. 

Poor girl.  Poor guy, too, I think, knowing that he did that to someone.  If he’s a guy with any kind of conscience, that is.

Riley
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 01:24 pm: [report]

Wow, what a case.  It isn’t fair to punish him for genuinely not knowing what is going on, it also isn’t fair that this happened to her.

Of course, I’m assuming that he really did sleepwalk and didn’t just think up some great defense for rape.  I hope it doesn’t start some trend.

Anna Banana
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 01:35 pm: [report]

I hope the guy gets some help for his sleepwalking. If he can have sex with someone in his sleep and not know it, he has a serious problem. I feel awful for the woman.

Humble Bee
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 01:43 pm: [report]

I call BS on that. How can you insert your peen and not wake up? How can you remove ALL of her clothes, and still be asleep? IDK, it sounds too fishy. I know when I drink, I don’t f*cking sleepwalk, I knock out cold like a rock. I dont know what to believe, he’s young, drunk.. I guess if his gf testifies that he really does have a sleepwalking problem…

equnsuocha
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 01:44 pm: [report]

Wasnt he woken up when she freaked out finding him on top of and inside her?  I have heard of Ambien incidents and people who are sleepwalkers but I can’t help but let the lil’ cynic in me say “He is full of BS”  How can you prove it?  Why should this women have to have this memory of what happened to her and have this man say “Sorry I forgot” or “I was sleepwalking”, how is this any different than someone who commits a date rape and uses the “I was under the influence of (insert substance here) and didnt know what I was doing.”

But thats just me >.<

bumbler
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 01:49 pm: [report]

This is actually a side effect of some sleep medication, there have been other cases where it happens as well as things like sleep driving etc.  I take Xanax for panic attacks when flying and I know that while I’m not technically asleep I have absolutely no memory of what happened while I’m under the influence of the drug.  For my honeymoon I remember leaving my apartment for the airport and then waking up in a hotel in Italy.  Apparently during this time I flew to Philadelphia, called my parents and spoke to them completely normally, ate a meal, flew to Frankfurt, went through customs conversing with the agent, flew to Florence and rode in a taxi to the hotel.  Same thing with the return flight and thats over 18 hours gone from my mind.  From people I spoke to apparently I sound sleepy but I function like a normal person.  While it’s not completely the same since I am not technically asleep I can totally understand where this guy is coming from.

equnsuocha
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 02:09 pm: [report]

@Bumbler I have a friend who’s old roommate used to take Ambien and she would get up in the middle of the night, grab chicken from the fridge and then stand in the living room and call everyoen whores.  She would then go back to sleep.  The next morning she would wake up demanding to know where the chicken went LMAO.  But I still call Shenanigans on this one.

Claireific
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 02:10 pm: [report]

It’s probably sexsomnia as opposed to just regular ol’ sleepwalking as we tend to think of it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexsomnia) It is indeed real, and we can see distinct brain waves to indicate that’s what’s going on.

bumbler
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 02:18 pm: [report]

Sleep eating, that was one of the other things I’d heard about.  Yeah thank god my medication doesn’t make me act crazy.

bethlynn00
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 02:21 pm: [report]

Sad situation, but people who experience this don’t wake up just from someone freakin out, and there have been cases of people falling to their death, getting hit by cars, etc.  What a sad situation for everyone involved and a horrible issue for courts to deal with.  Scary.

Oh Kathryn!
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 03:13 pm: [report]

Legally, he should be cleared because in the state that he was in he would not have been able to know what he was doing was wrong.

Oreo
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 03:13 pm: [report]

There isn’t enough information.

For example, when she woke up and found him on top of her, I can only imagine that her reaction would be to push him off, scream or some other form of resistance.  I would think that this might wake a sleepwalker, but I don’t know enough about it to say for sure.

I will say that I doubt that someone who consciously committed rape would friend request their victim after the incident.  My gut reaction is to say that, assuming the guy is on the level, there was no crime, but an unfortunate incident that resulted from a medical condition and a night of drinking.  I’m certainly not trying to make light of the anguish that I’m sure this woman is going through, but it doesn’t seem like a black-and-white case of rape in which punishment is deserved.

writergirl
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 03:21 pm: [report]

People have been cleared for committing murder while “sleep walking”.  If he was indeed sleep walking—or has sexsomnia—then there are no charges to file.  He didn’t act with intent.

And since our legal system is based on the UKs, it would follow that their legal system operates in a similar manner.

MuchoMacho
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 03:25 pm: [report]

i dont disagree that the guy cant be raping someone without intent…  but can he be held accountable for being negligent?  the fact that this had happened before with a previous girlfriend means he knew about his condition…  if he didnt get treatment, he could be held liable in civil court (please note - IM NOT A REAL LAWYER!!!  and just guessing )...

miss game
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 03:59 pm: [report]

ummm this whole story sounds like B.S. to me.  a) How could he have gotten all her clothes off without waking her up? b) How could she wake up to someone f%^$&^% her and not scream or fight it?

The whole thing just does not make sense.

Bee Mee
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 04:01 pm: [report]

Why is it her fault, miss game?  He’s the one claiming sleepwalking as a defense.  Why didn’t he wake up when he was stripping and raping someone?

SouthOC
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 04:43 pm: [report]

@Humble Bee:  I’m with you… I think this guy hired himself a really good/sleezy lawyer.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 05:47 pm: [report]

@SouthOC: Judgmental much? I could take you profession (gleaned from your profile) and make assumptions that you spend more time than is necessary, but in all actuality I have no idea what a “Training Professional” is. For all I know you could train dolphins how to jump through hoops.

Not all lawyers are skeezy.

skywalk
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 06:48 pm: [report]

I believe they would have to have him tested or something to prove that or everyone would be using that as an excuse all the time.  They likely will test him in a sleep lab something.  I would think anyways.

Let_Love_Rule
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 07:49 pm: [report]

@ mucho macho, I totally agree. If you have a condition that causes you to inflict harm on others, you are responsible for controlling it. If you refuse, I think you should be involuntarily committed in order to protect the public. A rapid dog is not responsible either, but it is completely unfair to subject the public to such a hazard.

MarieMacCee
wrote on October 21 2009 @ 10:19 pm: [report]

@ muchomacho, equnsuocha, missgame, let_love_rule
I take ambien to help me sleep occasionally and I’ve had been intimate with a boyfriend and written half a paper without actually being conscious of it-I don’t know if he was experiencing the same thing but I would be horrified if he actually didn’t know and was charged as a rapist because of it. I’ve made a point of sleeping alone when I take sleep aids or otherwise alerting my SO-but still, sleeping is such a normal and necessary thing that its hard to be vigilant all the time, esp if any untoward actions in the past had been forgiven by a close and understanding party (like a bf you’ve been with and are comfy with). My boyfriend was confused and upset, but he didn’t blame me.
    On the other hand, I think that the victim needs to be protected. Regardless of his intentions, she feels she was taken advantage of and she needs the therapy and understanding afforded any other woman that has been raped. She needs support and love from her friends and fam and the public at large. I don’t think that a court case has a huge effect on how she processes things-nor do I think it will change him at all. We need to take this as a HUGE red flag and dedicate more money and research to how we treat insomnia and approach the drugs we use to medicate it. Its just sad all around, and we need to make sure sketchy guys don’t use this as an excuse for legit conscious rape. I don’t know how we would, but its an important distinction we need to address.

SouthOC
wrote on October 22 2009 @ 09:48 am: [report]

@Cheese:  I didn’t say ALL lawyers are sleazy (judgmental much yourself?) I have two brother in-laws who are lawyers, and they’re both great guys.  Their job is to win for their client, right?

It’s not unheard of to have a “win at all costs” strategy that includes finding any loop-hole available regardless of guilt or innocence.  After all, we don’t have a justice system in our country, we have a legal system.

And by the way, think about taking that giant chip off of your shoulder…you’re way too easily provoked.

spatula
wrote on October 22 2009 @ 10:02 am: [report]

I feel like sleepwalking would be hard to prove? But what an awful thing

@Bumbler: I take Xanax fairly often and on flights too, and have NEVER EVER even come close to blacking out like that. I don’t think you’re supposed to. I’d talk to your doctor.

equnsuocha
wrote on October 22 2009 @ 10:05 am: [report]

@SouthOC Twinkie defense, right

workerbee
wrote on October 22 2009 @ 10:08 am: [report]

My ex and my son both have parasomnia.  I’ve spoken to my ex before and he’s had no memory of it the next day.  Sometimes he vaguely recalls something but only like a dream.  They seem awake and can act mostly to completely normal but have no recollection of it the next day.  Even when he “wakes up” he doesn’t remember it.  It’s only BS if they can’t prove that he suffers from it.  Nor do I feel that he has to “control” it.  If it’s a random occurrence, how is he supposed to know if it will happen on any given night?

SouthOC
wrote on October 22 2009 @ 10:08 am: [report]

The fact of the matter is, only two people were there (the sleep-walker and the victim).  If he really raped her while sleeping he needs to get some help so that it never happens again.