Is Marriage Just A Trap?

EastCoastMale
wrote on January 15 2009 @ 01:23 pm: [report]

To me, after reading this article, it seems that the author ( of the uk article) isnt expressing just an opinion but rather speaking from some past experience, no matter how subconscious. Maybe not her directly but in some way I feel that these views are being formed but something out of the norm. I dont think ALL marriages are just manifestations of guilt and anxiety being transformed into outward expressions, just as with anything some may be and some may not bet. To me the gaurdian author sounds like the Anne Coulter of marriage opinions, so convinced about her stance. =)

Michelle
wrote on January 15 2009 @ 01:58 pm: [report]

I think the way she expresses her ideas regarding marriage are so provocative that overshadow her own point. I don’t think marriage is even necessary, but I want to believe my sister (she’s my closer example for many reasons) was truly happy when she got married and during the months it took her to plan and organize her wedding. She had doubts, of course, and I suppose she still has, but that doesn’t mean marriage is to blame for that, because we all get freaked out when we realize our live is about to change because of our actions. Plus, must of us tend to want to have a significant other sleeping in the same bed, and some people find comfort and joy in having a ceremony to mark that change of status, some just go and sing the papers needed to mark that change. Some others prefer to just change their lives without any signed paper.
Now, yes, historically marriage was an institution created to make sure “property” was carefully marked (like in the middle ages) and it’s no secret that the concept of love was in no way related to love then. As time passed by, and the concept of man changed, and so did people’s ideas of themselves, everything that is relevant to us has been re-thought and in most cases adapted to our current needs, standards and beliefs. I suppose that marriage has changed as well, and it will always depend on the idea that those who decide to tie the knot have of their partners, themselves and what they expect from it. But marriage is a concept, above of all things, and a concept cannot modify itself.

joyy
wrote on January 15 2009 @ 02:07 pm: [report]

The Guardian author seems so angry, and I think that drags down a point that I totally agree with: “... female doubtfulness is more dangerous, since marriage has been set up as such a great prize.”

Why marriage is still viewed as a great prize or accomplishment is what troubles me.  I think greater prizes/accomplishments are finding a healthy lifestyle/environment for yourself and working to achieve the things that make you happy once you figure out what that is!  For some people that is having a family - and more power to ‘em.

But with marriage set up as this “great prize/accomplishment”, you’re set up as a failure if the marriage doens’t work out (a stat that is still at 50/50 I believe).  And why would divorce=failure if the overall result is taking your life and transforming it from something that hurts you to something that makes you happy?

I think the idea that any of us can know what we want now AND pretend to know with certainty that we will want the same thing 20-50 years from now is absurd, which is part of the reason I don’t want to be married.  However, given that logic, I don’t pretend to know that I will never want to get married ... because I have no idea how my life will have changed between now and when I die.

To return to the author’s mention of SATC: Many of us graduate from college, work in our communities/towards causes we care about, own homes, start businesses, achieve other impressive personal goals, and make differences in others’ lives, yet none of these are given the same weight as marriage (and motherhood).  Why are these benchmarks of significance seen as superior goals?

EastCoastMale
wrote on January 15 2009 @ 02:08 pm: [report]

Very insightful and articulate response, definitely raised some good issues. Enjoyed reading it.

Wendy Atterberry
wrote on January 15 2009 @ 03:26 pm: [report]

I think you all have raised some interesting points. Clearly, any sound argument the Guardian columnist may have had was muddied by her obvious anger and bitterness, but that’s not to say she didn’t have a point at all. I do think it’s crazy that marriage is viewed as some big prize, an end goal, bigger than all others we as women may have.

CCstarlight08
wrote on January 15 2009 @ 03:58 pm: [report]

I think there’s another angle here, and it’s not just about worrying that you’ll have to change more diapers than your husband. (or worse).

When you look at what is considered the “American Dream” (and I can extend this to certain other countries, because many ideas are the same or similar) you see that it’s the house with the garage, the perfect spouse, the two kids, the dog.

The grand wedding (and all the stress leading up to it) is not so much about being afraid you’re getting the short end of the stick, but that you’ll lose out the stick entirely. The stick is the fantasy of a “perfect life”, “happiness”, “worry-free existance”...everything we see in commercials when we flip on the TV.

Once upon a time, I was married; I’ve watched a few friends get married recently, there are a few more in the planning stages of a wedding, and one friend just had a baby.  They live in fear (as I did many moons ago) that their lives won’t be perfect, that their houses aren’t immaculate, that their kids won’t be smart and/or go to college. It’s this dream of the “perfect life” they’re chasing, this dream they are afraid to lose. Not whether their husbands pick up their fair share of the housework.

This dream has been skillfully implanted into us by our mothers, by society, from every angle, since we were old enough to hold a Barbie doll. And play with her in the Barbie Dreamhouse. And drive the Barbie car. It has nothing to do with the man, with the actual marriage…and everything to do with being perfect, having that unattainable dream we’re told we should want.

Rather than looking at marriage as a trap of prostitution, someone should be looking at how messed up society has become; the only thing that seems to matter is the lace on a dress, the honeymoon destination, the zip code of a house, the make of a car seat, which playgroup to attend and a husband’s job title.

jazzyj
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 10:21 am: [report]

On my wedding day, I had a blotched spray tan that made me look like an orange zebra. Since my dress was yellow and inches above the knee, it only accentuated this look. My hair was flat, and my make up melted. It was a beautiful experience anyway. A rabbi friend told me the day before the wedding that marriage in Hebrew means holy or sacred. That’s what it was: sacred. And everyday when I wake up next to my husband, I am so appreciative that he is in my life. This is why the stripes on my legs flaunted by my clashing dress were of no consequence. I am sorry for the person who wrote that article. It must be really depressing to live in such a state of despair and bitterness.

EarthGoddess
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 10:34 am: [report]

@jazzyj: Sorry for the minor issues of your wedding day, but you have exactly the right attitude about that day and every other you will spend with your husband! I am of the same mind. On my wedding day, I wore a sundress from my closet and we went to the JOP, but I view that day with as much importance as the birth of my daughter. While some women like to flaunt their careers, degrees, or drop a few well-placed names at parties, I don’t find nearly as much joy in any of that. I am educated, have a well-paying job, and could drop a few names myself, but all of that isn’t my true self. My true self is the woman I am at home with my husband and daughter. My greatest joy and greatest accomplishment on this Earth is, and will remain, making my family happy. Their happiness is my top priority.

joyy
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 10:48 am: [report]

@Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ  - the point isn’t to bash on women who, like you, find their happiness in their family - it’s to look at why women who don’t follow that path are treated as essentially “losers” for not “winning” the ‘big prize’ set up for us of ring/husband/kids. 

And it’s not about flaunting a career or a degree instead, it’s about looking to things that make you happy, and for some that is academia and following their (career) dreams just as for some it is having a family.  Plus, you don’t have to be married to have family-like support from a SO and friends.

EarthGoddess
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 11:02 am: [report]

@joyy: I guess I always felt sorry for those women who were perpetually alone, but wanted everyone to think they were content with it. I never bought their act of being OK with that life. I think, and I’m sure to fuel some rage fires here, that women who don’t follow the traditional wife/mother path are just using academia/careers/etc. as void-fillers or placeholders until the thing they really want comes along. My theory was recently supported by a friend of mine who, at the age of 42, is now desperately seeking a husband. She’s had the impressive career, traveled extensively, and has lived what some would call a good life. She confessed to me, however, that all of it was meaningless since the only one waiting at home was her cat. She said that the only way to reconcile her feelings of emptiness and time wasted, was to find a husband before it’s too late to share a life with him. She said that she, and I’m sure there are others that would agree with her, is tired of sitting enviously on the sidelines and watching everyone else have what she’s always wanted.

joyy
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 11:17 am: [report]

@Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Being unmarried is NOT equivalent to being “perpetually alone” or having an empty, meaningless life - and statements like yours perpetuate the idea that the only way for a women to have a happy, fulfilled life is to be married.  Btw, you do realize that many married women are unhappy and are trapped in abusive situations, right?  Do you think they are better off just because they are married?

Could you be more demeaning than to suggest the only path to happiness is for others to make the same choices you did?  You realize that a lot of unmarried women have relationships, family, and/or friendships to support them and don’t just ‘go home to their cat’ right?

I’m sorry your friend wound up unhappy with her choices, that just sucks.  If husband/kids is really “what she’s always wanted,” as you suggest, then I feel bad for her that she never went after what made her happy and sealed an unhappy fate by her own choices.

EarthGoddess
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 11:34 am: [report]

@joyy: I never meant to suggest that my way of living is the only correct way to live. I’m just saying that, in my conversations with unmarried friends and even my unmarried MALE cousin (age 36), I have found that most people who are married lead happier lives and are more fulfilled. My unmarried male cousin is a good-looking successful lawyer and is the only member of his group of friends who has yet to marry, and he wants nothing more than to settle down and have a family ASAP, and that’s something he’s wanted for years. He’s had a few broken engagements and just wants to find his Princess Charming, so it’s not only women who crave it. I have a few unmarried girlfriends who spend as much time as possible out of their homes because being there alone is too depressing.

I’m also not condoning women staying with an abusive husband/wife (let’s be inclusive here) simply to be married. That’s idiocy! However, if those women left their abusers, I’m sure they could easily find happiness with someone else.

From what I’ve seen, marriage may not be the path to happiness for certain, but you have a better chance of getting there married than if you choose to remain single.

EastCoastMale
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 12:20 pm: [report]

@ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
I dont want to take a combative or even harsh stance but after reading all the posts in this article, I still think even your most recent clarification post is way too generalized. I am currently single and have been off and on for periods of time and am totally fine with it. I know others who are single who are older than I and are happy and lead fullfiling lives because they are able to concentrate on higher education, travelling without a husband and child in tow or whatever other goals they have set for themselves. TO me it seems to bea matter of context, is it really that marriage is a vehicle to a specific end like your stating, ie: married people seem to attain happiness. Could it be that happiness for some, may be encapsulated in the idea of marriage and therefor that is why they seem to THINK that married people have an easier time having a full life.
    Staying at home doesnt equal loneliness, maybe for some who need constant attention/approval/or company but some can find things to do to occupy themselves and not out of a need to FILL their supposed empty lives, but rather a trait of being independent. Some men crave it some women crave it but all not people do just to have a better chance of supposedly attaining happiness. Just as not only people who read the bible in all parts of the world are religious, segregating a certain section of people on false statements is quite a blanket statement.

joyy
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 12:34 pm: [report]

@Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ: Well yes, if someone wants to be married and has trouble achieving that goal, they’re not going to be happy about it.  Dating is tough.  It’s way easier to be happy if you are single and love it than if you are single and pissed about it, for sure.  But there is way more to the pool of people who fall into the “unmarried” category than just lonely souls looking for a ring - many of us have SOs but don’t find marriage itself (not the idea of having someone to love) unappealing.  Besides, as East pointed out, what looks like some people as “emptiness” is really beautiful simplicity to others.

Michelle
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 01:27 pm: [report]

I cannot help but notice that it is rather difficult to be objective when it comes to marriage. If you ask me, I do NOT believe for a single moment that married people have better, more fulfilling lives than single ones. I know a lot of married women who tell me how lucky I am for being independent (they think it’s a synonym for single), lots of married men who refer to their status as “the dungeon”, and LOTS of single people who want to be married. So, IMHO, and as I said before, it all depends on the individual and his/her expectations, but above that, in what she or he does to get what they want from it. Therefore, you cannot “blame” marriage for being or not being what someone expected.
Joyy made a great point by asking why marriage is still considered such a prize. Again, INMH, it is because as a society, our frame of mind, our set of concepts, is still changing, we’re still redefining our idea of happiness. So, there’s a part of society that wants some values to remain the same, there’s another that wants to find a different path for their aspirations. I didn’t want to mention my own experience, but I have to say that I disagree with my mother: marriage will not make me a complete person, a full individual. I am already a person, I count just as much as any other, and that’s, for me, part of the answer: you can’t expect others to solve you as a problem. But you can, and I suppose must of us want, to BE with other, just be.

Chelle
wrote on January 16 2009 @ 02:07 pm: [report]

I think the author of the article definitely has outdated ideas of marriage. I’ve always heard the guys saying marriage traps THEM, not the other way around. I do agree that a lot of women want to do the whole “princess for a day” thing. I don’t know any women who get married just to do that though. The whole wedding thing has gotten out of control. The expenses are outrageous. When I get married, I just want to sign the papers and be done with it. My boyfriend is the one who wants at least a small ceremony. The whole idea of planning a wedding stresses me out. Like that feeling you get when a big paper is due at school. I also think everyone has their own idea of happiness. Some people would rather just be alone. Others think that marriage is nothing but paperwork so they just stay together marriage-free. To each his or her own.

Lyra
wrote on January 17 2009 @ 04:36 am: [report]

marriage - it’s #&@$% and isn’t for anyone.
it’s a sexist institution, and i lose respect for anyone planning on doing it..

grace
wrote on January 17 2009 @ 07:15 pm: [report]

Marriage is not a trap.  It is a beautiful institution.  It exists for the well-being of children. 

Those who are not blessed with a spouse or children are on a different path that is just as important in God’s eyes.  The people I once knew were very happy in their lives as they were.  They knew how important they were in society & held in esteem. 

Some days I wake and wonder what happened to that heaven and why more people are not aware of how good life can be.  Even though I now live life as a divorced catholic, i am grateful for the life i once led. 

It is important to try to live life as fully as possible and appreciate what one does have.

thecaptain
wrote on January 21 2009 @ 11:15 am: [report]

i think the bottom line is that it comes down to experience.  we can’t change what we see and how it has affected us in life.  we can become friends with those feelings and decide how we want to live our own lives. but i would bet if you grew up with parents who were happily married, you have a different (probably more positive) view than those who grew up with parents who were miserable with each other.  i’m from a divorced household, got married myself and ended up divorced.  i’m now with the man i hope to be with as long as i am meant to, but i don’t believe we have to be married to live our lives together.  one day, however, i may want to be married. this is why the most important thing is to just be realistic and know what you want out of a partner.  we don’t have kids, but we have plenty of discussions about roles and responsablilities so that we are prepared for when we do. most couples don’t truly know themselves let alone their partner.  what society thinks should not dictate how you feel about yourself.  besides-these are blanket statements to say society feels negative towards single women or positive towards them.  just be who you are, live how you want and communicate clearly with your partner about expectations.