Is It Necessary To Always Tell Partners About Your STD?

marv3mania
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 11:56 am: [report]

If don’t enjoy being sued or (in some cases) arrested, then I would recommend telling your partner that you have an STD.

Erin G
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 12:02 pm: [report]

Most people I know have come to the consensus that if its just HPV, since 80% of people have it, its not worth the social stigma to fess up since its almost guaranteed your potential partner has it too (whether or not they are aware).

Most of the time, I can agree with this statement.

People can be really judgmental when finding out someone has HPV, even though those people likely have it too already.

Now if it was anything else (herpes, whatnot) its a different story.

sam04
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 12:17 pm: [report]

I think you absolutely have the responsibility to be completely honest about any STIs you might have before sleeping with someone.  They should be able to make an informed decision about whether they want to risk that or not.  And I think if there’s a chance you might have unknowingly given someone an STI (or received one from them) you should let them know so they can get checked out and avoid spreading it further.  I’ve never had any STIs, but I like to think I’d be responsible about it.

DancerNinja
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 12:18 pm: [report]

I know someone who contracted HPV and then got an abnormal pap result. Just because stats say 80% of the population has is doesn’t mean anyone has the right to put the other 20% in danger from nondisclosure.

Jessica Wakeman
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 12:27 pm: [report]

I think an STD something you should always mention to people, even if it’s the overwhelmingly-common HPV and even if you’re not having an outbreak. Sure, most people do have HPV at one point in their lives. But it shows respect for the other person and their health.

If someone really wants to be with you, they will be with you regardless of the fact that you have an STD or a mental illness or what-have-you. But it’s not your business to assume you know what’s good for other people and what they need to know.

newmakcity
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 12:33 pm: [report]

Not to mention there are DOZENS of different stains of HPV. You can be infecting people with new strains, some of which cause cervical cancer. Come on people. The stigma is unfair and it goes away by everyone fessing up to it and showing that it’s not a certain type of person that gets it. My 23-year-old friend had been through over a dozen painful procedures to treat the strain of HPV she got from a partner. I have taken her home limping from the doctor and wiped her tears in the cab. Please don’t downplay the consequences of nondisclosure.

joyy
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 12:35 pm: [report]

My vote also goes for honesty being the best policy re: stds.

@jessicaW - um, how are mental illnesses relevant here?  You can’t catch a mental illness from having sex with someone who does…

sparklestar
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 12:53 pm: [report]

I would take somebody to court who KNOWINGLY gave me an STD. For reals. It’s called actual bodily harm.

JaqAttack
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 12:55 pm: [report]

Erin G - it’s that attitude that had caused 80 % of the population to contract HPV. Just because most people have it, does not mean everyone has it.

Since 80 % of the population has HPV, I think that would make the “social stigma” far less condemning. Your partner should have the right to their sexual health, and by not informing them of an STD/I you are endangering their health.

If you’re adult enough to be having sex, then you need be adult enough to be responsible about your sexual health and your partner’s.

mlyway
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 01:05 pm: [report]

Although awkward, people should ask their partner directly if they have an STD/STI before having sex. It gives the partner an opportunity to be upfront and honest. Although they may still lie, you put trust in one another in a relationship. And at least you did try to ask—you would regret looking back if you ever did contract an STD without asking your partner about them.

GAgirlinNYC
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 01:07 pm: [report]

I actually was talking to a friend the other day whose gyno diagnosed her with hpv and when she asked if she should tell her boyfriend, the gyno said no! She was there for mystery bumps to be removed!

When she told me about it, all I could do was question what kind of people hold my vagina’s health in their hands? Gynos know better than anyone how many different strains there are of hpv, and yet she felt it was unimportant for her boyfriend to be told.

I also think that there are so many misconceptions about hpv and that leads to people not knowing if they should tell. I hear girls say all the time how hpv can give them cervical cancer, but why tell the guy when it does nothing to them? How about ugly warts that are painful to remove? Ot how about their next girlfriend they could pass that cervical cancer strain to.

Tell them, tell them, tell them. No matter the STD. STDs are like unemployement checks. There used to be a stigma but now everyone’s doing it.

Goldfinch86
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 01:07 pm: [report]

I shouted at the screen after reading the heading, “YES you should tell your partner!” I can’t believe that anyone would even begin to think this is normal adult behavior or part of being sexually healthy. You/your partner out of respect deserves to know the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I hope this person realizes normal people don’t act like that and that she should ask next time, it’s not rude, it’s honest and it’s your body so you have the right.

CraftLass
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 01:09 pm: [report]

You should ‘fess up.  There’s no two ways around it.  It’s so true that if someone really wants to be with you that fact won’t stand in their way.  I was reluctant to believe this, but an old friend who had HIV was perfectly honest and ended up finding a wonderful lover who was more than willing to do the deed but the knowledge kept him from getting it.  I think it actually strengthened their relationship in the end, “I love you so much I am willing to die for you,” was not a platitude for those two.  This was back when HIV was a pretty fast death sentence, no less.

I also had a friend who found out after the fact that the girl he lost his virginity to had an STD and I have never seen a man so hurt, angry, and violated-feeling.  He turned out clean, but it scared all of us and I still get mad when I think of that girl.

toyen
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 01:43 pm: [report]

The most frustrating thing is that last time I checked, there was no test for guys to see if they have HPV (other than some swab up the penis, which most guys won’t do). So they are usually passing it on unawares.

It’s a tough one to readily admit to, because upward of 80% of people have it, it doesn’t really effect men’s health, it has the cervical cancer scare attached to it but is possible to get rid of with upping your immunity and supplements, but it’s still got such a stigma attached to it nonetheless. What’s your opinion on disclosure if it’s been a decade since you had a questionable pap and you use condoms faithfully?

By the way, Beta-mannan is the most amazing thing for clearing up a case of HPV/abnormal pap smears/cervical dysplasia.

snap
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 03:19 pm: [report]

i think a girl doesn’t need to fess up to high-risk HPV, since it rarely affects men and men can’t be tested for it and there’s no way for a girl to know whether she is still contagious, and 1/3 people, at LEAST, has it.  but low-risk HPV, warts, it would nice to know about.  same for herpes, although, if i’d had it outbreak-free for 8 years, i probably wouldn’t tell casual partners.  no need.  it’s YOUR responsibility to always protect yourself, not your partner’s.  everyone should assume that EVERY casual partner has a highly-contagious STD and proceed accordingly.  for a serious partner, i think honesty matters more.  but HPV… seriously.  wear a condom.  everyone should use condoms unless and until you KNOW you’re going to marry him.  that won’t eliminate risk, but it would reduce it.

GreenAura
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 03:29 pm: [report]

If you are having a one-night stand, then you should be WEARING A F*CKING CONDOM and there should be no need to disclose.  And if you sleep with someone (in a one night stand) and you don’t wear a condom and you catch something, than that’s your own stupid fault, sorry.  If you are starting a relationship, then you need to fess up right away.  Only a**holes wouldn’t inform their partner.

joyy
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 03:43 pm: [report]

@um no ... um NO it is not ok for a lady to just not tell a guy she has it because it’s one type of strain and not another - it may not cause serious issues for him but he can pass it on to another girl.  Do you not understand the “S” and “T” parts of STD?

marv3mania
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 03:59 pm: [report]

@um no—People have successfully sued partners who gave them HPV without having told them they had the virus. So while a guy certainly should be wrapping it up, keeping your infection a secret could still get you in big trouble. Honesty remains the best policy.

Ginger
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 05:24 pm: [report]

If it’s a one night stand then I guess telling someone (unless it’s a MAJOR disease) isn’t as important. Just make sure to wear a condom.

But this woman asking for advice was right to get angry. If they had been dating for four months and didn’t say anything then that seems like a pretty good indicator that the relationship was not going to end well.

mdtobe
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 05:43 pm: [report]

A common misconception is that wearing a condom automatically prevents you from transmitting or contracting a disease from another.  Certain STI’s, including genital warts caused by HPV, can be transmitted by contact with infected skin, it is not like HIV where you can only catch it when bodily fluids exchange.  We call it “the bathing suit rule.”  Any skin normally covered by a man’s bathing suit (think 1980’s style shorts) can potentially be a hotbed of HPV with the capability to infect another.  It is true though, that if you aren’t currently experiencing an outbreak, the odds of transmitting are slim to none, so whether or not you take the risk is up to you.

snap
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 06:05 pm: [report]

@marvmania.  i don’t believe that for one second.  unless you mean HIV.  it is nearly impossible to prove prior HPV infection

newmakcity
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 06:21 pm: [report]

@um no…um no. If you know you have HPV it means you got diagnosed, which means you have medical records proving you knew and when. And yes, medical records can be subpoenaed for these types of suits. And as for ignoring the high-risk strains, those are the ones that cause cancer. I can’t believe you would say not letting someone know they might give someone else cancer is ok.

retro chic
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 06:42 pm: [report]

This is one of those things that are sure to bite you on the ass down the road if you don’t do the right thing, whatever it may be, and you *know* what that is. Don’t just stop at being an adult. Be a *HUMAN BEING.*

marv3mania
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 06:47 pm: [report]

@um no—I have a small stack of cases in my recycling bin that disagrees with you. Even some state supreme courts have upheld verdicts against someone who transmitted HPV.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 07:07 pm: [report]

I think everyone can agree that a person with an STI should disclose. It’s the ethically and morally right thing to do. (Legal is still up in the air.)

But I wonder how many people who come out of the gate shouting “Disclose!” have had this particular shoe on the other foot?

Remember, I’ve already said that the right thing to do is to be up front. The only thing that gives me pause is that it can be so very hard, and you never really understand how hard until you go through it.

Consider herpes and HPV. A majority of the population carries some strain of it, but a majority of that majority is asymptomatic and don’t know. So they get to go about behaving however they please, probably unknowingly infecting others. But the small percentage who do know? They get to shoulder the burden of being moral and disclosing. 25% of the American people have HSV-2, more commonly known as genital herpes. Of that, only 10% know they have it. That’s 7 million people trying to responsibly deal with something 76 million have.

The burden of disclosure remains with the person with the STI. It isn’t fair, but that’s how it is. A good, decent person will be truthful and give you the knowledge to make a decision. If someone lies to you and deliberately exposes you to a lifelong medical condition, you are better off without.

That being said, the stigma concerning STIs is beyond belief, particularly when it comes to herpes and HIV (which is beyond nonsensical, because HSV is nowhere near what HIV is). People are ostracized and humiliated every day for having a virus. Do you know what it’s like to go to the pharmacy and have the pharmacist’s assistants whisper, “Oh my God, she has AIDs!” in a voice that everyone else in line can hear? Do you know what it’s like to stand in a group of your co-workers and have someone make a herpes joke and have everyone but you start laughing? Do you know what it’s like to tell the guy you’ve been crushing on and dating for a month that you are HSV-positive and you want him to know because you want a relationship based on honesty and respect, only to have him block your calls and text all his friends that you are a dirty ho?

I am not defending people who don’t disclose. That is immoral and wrong. What I’m saying is this: have some compassion for those who have to. The guy in the article is clearly either a sociopath who doesn’t care about anyone but himself or an unbelievably misinformed idiot. But there are lots of people out there who just make mistakes - whose courage fails at the last second, who are drunk, who are caught up in the heat of the moment. And there are many more people who disclose every time - and get their dignity and sense of worth handed back to them in a garbage bag.

Everyone should disclose. Period. There are no excuses. But I wish people who don’t have contagious, stigmatized medical conditions wouldn’t be so quick to jump on the “If you don’t tell, you’re scum!” train.

Take a minute to think. Consider where they’re coming from. An STI-negative person who decides to walk away (and a lot do walk, really) is probably doing so with a sense of relief. But the moral individual who just got rejected is more often than not left behind, crushed under the burden of disclosure.

It’s easy to say things like “If he really loves you, he won’t care” and “I would be honest everytime, if I had it!” But imagine a life where dating is just one long string of rejections, of men and women being really into you and then abruptly forgetting you exist the second you say something. Imagine every first date being a strange mix of breathless exhilaration and sickening terror, because That Conversation is always looming somewhere in your background. Imagine waking up one morning to be told you have a virus that, according to many, many of your peers, makes you the next thing to a leper.

Lying or withholding isn’t right. But disclosing is not that easy. The next time someone discloses to you, whatever the situation, be impressed. That took a lot of guts.

Most people who know they have STIs will say something. They were the responsible ones who went out and got tested and now will deal with it because they are adult human beings. The burden is theirs and they will carry it. You should be more worried about the ones who DON’T know.

I just wish more people would get this offended and lathered up by the fact that the stigma exists at all. Yeah, positive people should disclose - but a large number of negative people need to wake up and get aware. Awareness would kill the fear of disclosure, and then being honest wouldn’t be such a big deal.

Let’s stop reminding positives that they need to say something. They KNOW. Instead, let’s spread some awareness. And the next time you hear someone saying something ugly about an STI or someone with an STI, I sincerely hope you speak up.

Sorry this was such a novel. I didn’t mean to preach when I started.

retro chic
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 07:59 pm: [report]

I don’t know what I am more struck by—the deterioration of morals or of basic human reasoning of a few here. Sadder still that the legal-types feel compelled to force chilly facts about the loss of freedom for narcissists when all else fails. Yep, now you got their attention. Even a good ethical lawyer will advise to do the right thing and disclose with out any legalese. This is not complicated—just seriously inconveniently adult stuff. Decency and taking the moral high ground? [fade to black] um wow.

Riley
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 08:19 pm: [report]

Not sure why this should even be a question.

Completely unforgivable.

It is strange that people are okay with giving other people STDs.

Adventurous1
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 08:55 pm: [report]

@awomanfromcolchis   Very well said.  Thank you for clarifying how these STI’s can be transmitted and that condoms aren’t enough.  Many people can be asymptomatic and be carriers…even without knowing.  I personally caught chlamydia that way…from a cheating spouse. 

My daughter told me that her OB/GYN told her the same thing.  That she needn’t say anything since she (my daughter) hadn’t had an outbreak in xyz amount of time.  She declared her “cured”.

lindssaurus
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 09:10 pm: [report]

marv3mania you cant sue someone who “gave” HPV to someone else. Alot of people dont know that HPV can stay undetected in your system for years without you knowing through tests, there is NO way to know who you can get HPV from. HPV is so common could of been through someone years ago, then someone who may not have it and then another person who may have it at the same time as you have, its that common records dont prove this. So please dont give false information on this site, I know your arguing that this is true but I just believe it I think its BS. and wearing condoms doesnt entirely protect you from this either.

anatomization
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 09:10 pm: [report]

You people need to get your facts straight.  HPV and Herpes can be spread while still using a condom, and they are uncurable.  There is no getting rid of it or it just going away.  there are outbreaks, but it can still be transmitted when there is no outbreak.  Also, HPV doesn’t just cause cervical cancer, it has also been linked to many other types of cancer, including anal and throat.  And men get throat, anal, and yes even Penis cancer from HPV.  It may not be quite as common in men, but it still happens. Intentionally and knowingly spreading a STD is immoral and illegal.

lindssaurus
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 09:11 pm: [report]

I know someone who had it and it went away. some strains are curable and some arent.

GAgirlinNYC
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 09:45 pm: [report]

So basically, we really really want the frisky to give us a thorough column about HPV facts. It seems that a lot of people have no idea what it is or how it is is transfered.

Very, very sad to see so many people feeling ok about taking someone down with them. I don’t care that I am having pprotected sex, I still want to know. Even if it’s something curable. If the condom breaks or it’s hpv and given through other skin contact, it’s my partner’s responsibility to inform me. One night stand or long term relationship, I have a right to know- we all do!

Symian
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 09:57 pm: [report]

It’s sad that we have to live in a world where we have to think this hard about disclosing inportant information to people.  It’s dishonest to withhold that type of information.  Just because it’s a one-nighter doesn’t mean that your unnoticed wart won’t make contact with his/her skin (especially since your genitals are probably touching).  A good barometer to go by is, “How would I feel if someone did this to my daughter without giving her the option to walk away?”

According to the CDC, certain HPV can cause either warts, cancers (yes, even in men), but some people don’t ever see any indication of the infection, they find out only through testing.  Apparently the infection usually clears out of the body within 2 years, but can lie dormant for long periods of time before any symptoms arise.  The CDC also says that there is no HPV test currently available for men.

CraftLass
wrote on June 25 2009 @ 10:07 pm: [report]

Has anyone considered the fact that, while telling a potential partner can destroy the relationship, finding out that you have a disease will almost certainly do the trick.  I would definitely be more inclined to take an educated risk than stick with someone who didn’t feel the need to let me know about it in the first place, whether I got that disease myself or not.  It’s about the worst offense I can think of, trust-wise.

So, while I do feel loads of sympathy for anyone who has to divulge such information, I also think that the only other alternative is to lose that person later, when it will hurt a lot more.

Infamous
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 07:07 am: [report]

@anatomization: Your post was mostly correct. While herpes is incurable, some strains of HPV are defeated by one’s immune system. See: http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/common-questions.htm

This conversation just really drives home the point that we need to be in charge of protecting our own sexual health, because apparently some persons have no qualms whatsoever with passing along life-altering infections. The fact that these illnesses can cause disfigurment, infertility, cancer, and birth defects should be motivation for anyone to divulge the fact that they have an STD.

I really have a hard time believing that a healthcare provider would tell a patient not to inform their partners when it is still required (at least in PA) to report communicable diseases to the Dept of Health.

Perceptible
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 07:16 am: [report]

I’m with Riley. Why is it even a question? How DARE you chance infecting someone else? What a selfish, disrespectful act. No one who really cares about you would put you at risk.

That said, always use protection until you’re 100% sure. And that means until you’re both tested.

marv3mania
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 09:27 am: [report]

@lindssaurus—While I certainly understand you skepticism, I assure you that I am not spreading misinformation. Several, if not all, states allow you to sue someone passed on a venereal disease to you. Specifically, the Ohio supreme court upheld a jury verdict against a man who passed genital warts (HPV) to the plaintiff’s wife. I remember coming across more cases when I wrote a paper on this very topic last summer, though the specifics slip my mind. But I do know that some state courts have held that a person with a venereal disease has a legal duty to either abstain from sexual contact with others or to warn potential partners of the risk of transmission.

And there are certainly instances where you CAN know who passed it to you. For example, a woman who has only ever had sex with one man and suddenly develops genital warts can be pretty damn sure who gave ‘em to her.

moonblossom
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 09:30 am: [report]

I find all the equivocating slightly disturbing. If you know, or should know, you have an STD then you have an obligation to tell your partner. They can make the informed decision.

BTW - if the last 2 people this guy slept with ended up with HPV - that means he knew. He’s a douchebag. Hopefully it shrivels up and falls off.

Arsenic
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 09:40 am: [report]

Hello?! YES! You *always* need to tell!
It’s called being an adult and doing the right thing. Yes it sucks. Yes it could potentially destroy a budding relationship (but do you really want to have a relationship with that kind of person anyway?). Yes its embarrassing. But you know what? Thats the price you pay for the privilege of being sexually active. And really, in the end, its so worth it.

shadow
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 10:12 am: [report]

I was dating a doctor (A DOCTOR) for a little while. And we had the STD talk. I asked him when was the last time he was tested for STDs and if he’s clean, he said he was tested and clean. Now I know I should have probably still used protection but we decided to not use condoms. Well a few months into the relationship I was at his house and just got out of the shower, so I went into his medicine cabinet for some deodorant low and behold I see two bottles of Valtrex in his name, one almost empty and a new one. Now he could have just found out he had herpes and hadn’t had a chance to tell me yet, but the older bottle was perscribed right before we started dating. I was pissed that he lied to me and said he was clean. I wouldn’t expect a doctor out of all people to put my health at risk the way he did. It goes to show you even if you do have the STD talk you can’t fully trust that the person will tell you the truth. Thankfully, I escaped clean and never contracted herpes. But I would have had a lot more respect for him if he would have told me up front.

Isabel K.
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 10:49 am: [report]

The guy that I am currently dating (im 24, he is 26) told me after sleeping with him WITH CONDOMS a few times that he has HPV.  At first it was shocking, but it has ensured that we KEEP USING CONDOMS.  You should always wear condoms with your lovers DUH and you wouldn’t have gotten HPV.  I appreciate that he was honest with me.

JaqAttack
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:26 pm: [report]

I do not think that someone who chooses to tell their partner about an STD post coitus counts as honest.

Why are people trying to diminish the importance of being honest with a partner? If you have an STD because you were not informed, why, WHY would you do that to another person? Even if you have never had an outbreak, your potential partner deserves the right to make an informed decision about their health.

I fail to see the reasoning behind keeping it a secret because HPV is common or because you may not have symptoms.

In fact, those two factor alone probably make it easier to tell your partner.

Joreth
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:26 pm: [report]

This is absolutely infuriating.

OF COURSE you must disclose this information.  A person cannot give informed consent if information is withheld.  This is a form of rape (regardless of gender) because the information could, potentially, change the answer.  If the information could cause your partner to say no, and you withhold that information, you have removed their ability to give informed consent.

Isabel, honey, HPV is passed by skin contact, not fluid transfer.  Condoms don’t prevent the spread of HPV.  Well, they do, a little, but not much.  HPV is spread by shedding skin cells, and you can have infected skin cells outside of the condom coverage.

And considering that *some* cases of HPV cause cancer, and *some* of those cases result in death, the fact that a lot of people get it is not an excuse to take this threat lightly.  Farrah Fawcett’s death is all over the news today, and that was caused by HPV.

True, a large portion of people who contract HPV naturally pass it through their immune system with no symptoms, so you should not go running through the streets yelling “we’re all gonna die!”  I’m saying this should be taken seriously because you never know which strain you have and whether it’s going to kill you until it does.

CraftLass:  “Has anyone considered the fact that, while telling a potential partner can destroy the relationship, finding out that you have a disease will almost certainly do the trick. ... I also think that the only other alternative is to lose that person later, when it will hurt a lot more.”

Because finding out that his partner LIED to him and gave him an illness that might kill him or render him sterile after the relationship has already developed emotional attachments is so much better?  That won’t cause any friction or possibly make your partner leave you and that won’t hurt more?

If someone chooses not to engage in a sexual relationship with you because he does not want to contract an STD, yes that might hurt, but the alternative is being an unethical person who knowingly infects another human being with a virus or bacteria that could kill or have other long-term damage ... which will result in losing that same person when he finds out you were a lying bitch who intentionally harmed him for selfish reasons.

Being up front about our STD status is part of being a responsible adult and accepting the consequences of our actions.

I have all sorts of HPV information, all the latest research developments, etc. on my livejournal at http://joreth.livejournal.com/tag/sti and something that a responsible adult should be doing is keeping track of their health and sexual status, including getting regular STD checkups.  I, actually, will not get into a sexual relationship with anyone until we have both been tested and we actually trade the physical test results from the doctor.  I keep them on file and regular checkups are required.  There is a form online that you can download to keep track of your history and test results and people in my social circle use it during their Disclosure Discussion to make sure all the appropriate information is disclosed.  You can find it at http://www.theinnbetween.net/sexual_health_and_history.pdf with a convenient chart of STDs and proper protection methods for each type of sexual contact at http://www.theinnbetween.net/polysex.html

Joreth
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:29 pm: [report]

Sorry, CraftLass, I read your post too quickly.  We are actually saying the same thing and my comments should have been directed towards the people you were responding to.

Not disclosing out of fear of rejection is not a valid reason to withhold information.  You will be rejected even more painfully after the fact, and then you’re not just “diseased”, you’re also an unethical person.

Riley
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:32 pm: [report]

@Shadow - You do realize that Valtrex is also prescribed for “fever blisters”, right?  I hope you asked him which it was for, Simplex 1 or 2 before jumping to conclusions and likely telling people that he had herpes.  Which most people equate herpes to genital herpes.

Riley
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:36 pm: [report]

@Shadow - Valtrex is also prescribed for Shingles, which is a form of herpes.  A friend of mine had these when he was 23 and was prescribed Valtrex; it isn’t just a disease for the elderly.

Joreth
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:37 pm: [report]

For the record, awomanfromcolchis, I have been on the other side.  I know EXACTLY what it feels like.  I still say anyone who doesn’t disclose is “scum”.

Symian
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:45 pm: [report]

Uh, Riley, herpes is herpes.  Just because one is “up here” and the other is “down there” doesn’t make it any better (think “herpes in my mouth”).  I’d be pissed off if my guy gave me herpes simplex 1 or 2, he should be a man and tell me that he’s got an issue that can affect me.

And if I have to find out on my own, then hell yeah, I’d tell everyone that he’s a herpe peddling nasty dirty man who isn’t afraid to share his mouth germs with the world.

shadow
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:52 pm: [report]

@Riley- Yes,I did bring it up to him and that’s when he told me he had genital herpes. He said he didn’t tell me because he hadn’t had an outbreak in so long that he was sure he would not pass it to me,which he didn’t. I told him that he showed a lack of respect for me by not being honest with me in the first place and that’s why I left him.

alphabete
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:53 pm: [report]

I am really disturbed by the fact that people think it’s okay to put someone else at risk (even if they consider it to be a very tiny risk) just so that they can selfishly have what they want without thinking of the well-being or the concerns of the other person involved.  Only a disgusting, completely immature and selfish person would decide for someone else that they don’t need to know about the disease their genitals are near, protected or not. 

If I’m with someone, I want the right to decide if I want their herpes/hpv/hiv/crabs/whatever-infested sex parts near mine.  *I* should be able to decide that.  If it’s going to make you sad that you might get rejected, too bad.  It’s not someone else’s choice to make and guaranteed, if it ever happened to me it would be 100% rape because there’s no way I’d knowingly/willingly bang someone with an std. 

How terribly childish and heartless.  I think I would take the life of someone who sentenced me to an std.  It’s the same as shooting your victim up with a needle full of disease.

Riley
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:53 pm: [report]

@Symian - Read up a little, learn how the transfer rate is next-to-none on the simplex 1 if they are being treated.  It is on the lips and not inside the mouth, google is good for information.

I do completely agree, it should be one of those things that is told.  You’ll find out anyway as people have outbreaks eventually.

My point was more to the fact that it seemed like a conclusion was made, there was no confrontation or discussion.  For all you or I know it was for treatment of something else entirely, prescription drugs have multi-purposes you know.

I don’t want any of it and would like to be told upfront.  You should be fair and give a chance for explanation in a circumstance like Shadow described.

Riley
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 12:56 pm: [report]

@Shadow - Then yeah, completely justified.  It just didn’t sound that way from the way I took your post.

Definitely should have been something to tell up front.

CraftLass
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 01:01 pm: [report]

@Joreth: Thanks for the apology, when I read the first response I was wondering why you took offense when we were making the same point, lol!  Thank you also for the provocative thought of equating it with rape, never even considered that before but it’s a interesting point.

Ah, all this makes me hope I will never have sex with another man, my BF and I have been monogamous for so long I barely remember sex with anyone else, and the thought of going through all the checklists, so to speak, again with someone else just makes me too tired for sex.  Still, we are so lucky to live in an age where these diseases can be diagnosed, some can be treated, protection and help are available, and we have the ability to do the right thing and inform our partners before the risk their own health.

Symian
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 01:05 pm: [report]

Riley, I’m sure since you are aware of the power of the internet that you know that you CAN get ORAL herpes with affects the lips, gums, tongue, and the roof of the mouth (google oral herpes), google is good for information.  And next to none tranfer rate means crap when you’re the one who finds out that you now have herpes from someone being treated.

People need to stop being douchebags and be honest.  If you are being treated for something, good for you.  But as long as infection lingers in your body, you need to tell the person you’re planning on infecting.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 03:32 pm: [report]

I’m seeing a lot of righteous anger when it comes to an STI-positive person who does not disclose. I understand why - it’s frightening to think of being deceived and infected. No one wants it to happen to them.

But what I’m also seeing a lot of is generalizing. I’m reading responses where people who don’t disclose are called “selfish,” “disgusting.” “Scum” is one I often see repeated, as is “immoral.” There’s even a rape comparison.

I’m not saying nondisclosure is acceptable. It simply is not. However, the number of people who don’t disclose for purely selfish or sociopathic reasons is not that high. Yes, there are those “douchebags” out there who don’t just because they can (ha), but lots of positives don’t disclose for many other reasons: fear of rejection, fear of loss, denial, repression, and despair are just a few. And there’s always plain ignorance. Some people - and doctors, depressingly enough - are completely misinformed. Many people still believe that a condom protects you from HSV and HPV. Others think that as long as they are not having outbreaks, they do not have to protect themselves or their partners. Myths about STIs such as HSV have been around since the 70s, and HPV has only become known recently.

In a perfect world, everyone would get tested regularly and everyone would always disclose with nothing but the most accurate honesty. Unfortunately, we are far from perfect. Did I miss the part where STIs confer superpowers? Are adults who contract automatically upgraded into super-responsible human beings who do the moral thing every time? (Can I justify wearing a cape, now?)

This is not to say that not being honest (if you know) is OK. It isn’t! It is, in fact, selfish and harmful. But it is not beyond comprehending. I denounce anyone who knowingly puts their partners at risk, but I can see where they’re coming from. So, yes, if this happens, to you or to anyone, be upset! Be outraged! Just don’t be hateful. That could someday be you. The CDC predicts that by 2025, 50% of American women will have GHSV. Which side of the line do you think you’ll fall on? For that matter, have you been tested? 75% of the afflicted show no symptoms, and most “full STD screening panels” do not include a herpes test. Lots of doctors refuse to test for herpes unless there are symptoms.

And I wonder - has anyone considered the other side of this? Why do you think it’s so hard to disclose? Everyone knows that you SHOULD be honest. So why don’t more people do it? If everyone agrees that being truthful is the absolutely right thing to do and that’s what everyone WOULD do “if they had an STI,” why do so many people fail at it?

I reject the notion that all people who don’t disclose are “immoral scum.” I don’t buy it. What I propose is that most people are just afraid - not just of rejection, but of the stigma, the same stigma that causes ignorant people to treat positives like lepers and the responses on this forum to be so unequivocally condemning.

I think the reason why this issue of STI disclosure provokes such anger is because no one wants to think about it happening to them, yet it’s so easily possible. I can understand this - when I was diagnosed, I walked around in shock for weeks. I’ve had few partners, always asked the right questions, and always practiced safe sex, even throughout my marriage. Now here I am - divorced, cheated on, and HSV-positive. I am the last person to advocate for non-disclosing partners. But I can see the temptation, and would rather help others to reject it than berate and punish them.

The only way to be absolutely safe is to be abstinent. That’s it, the only stop-all. How many of you are abstinent? For that matter, how many of you ask your first-time partners to get tested and then share paperwork?

How many of you ask a couple of questions, tear open a condom, and cross your fingers? Because that is what you are doing every time you have sex with someone whose medical history you have not seen on paper, even if you use protection: taking a risk.

Somehow, I doubt that many people are asking their first-time sexual partners to please get tested, waiting two weeks while practicing abstinence, sharing results, and only then getting naked.

(If you are, then Jesus. I am impressed.)

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 03:33 pm: [report]

Besides, people who know they have something tend to be taking steps to fight the infection. They take anti-virals or get the shots, go to the doctor, take care of themselves, and usually practice safe sex. The vast majority disclose. The ones you SHOULD be worried about are the 75% of infected who don’t know they have it because they don’t show any symptoms. You have a much better chance of catching something from someone who has NO IDEA than from someone who does. A straight woman has a 1 in 3 chance of meeting a man with herpes, who probably doesn’t know. A straight man has 1 in 4 of meeting a woman with it - who, again, probably doesn’t know. 80% of women will have HPV in their lifetime, and there isn’t even a way to accurately test for it in asymptomatic men.

You have the right to be angry. Let’s just stop the hate. Nothing is so black and white, and you lose nothing in practicing empathy.

While you’re at it, check out ( http://loveinthetimeofherpes.blogspot.com/ ). It only addresses herpes, but it’s inspirational and thought-provoking nonetheless. She makes a lot of great points, and even addresses the issue of disclosure.

Be aware. Get educated. Get tested. Practice compassion.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 03:41 pm: [report]

@Joreth - If you don’t mind my asking, was your condition permanent or temporary? Because I assure you, there is a very, very great difference.

@alphabete: “It’s not someone else’s choice to make and guaranteed, if it ever happened to me it would be 100% rape because there’s no way I’d knowingly/willingly bang someone with an std.”

Huh. So you demand 100% honesty and responsibility from them, but you also perpetuate the stigma by inferring that someone with an STI is to be avoided at all costs. Classy.

@Symian - “And if I have to find out on my own, then hell yeah, I’d tell everyone that he’s a herpe peddling nasty dirty man who isn’t afraid to share his mouth germs with the world.”

What about the rest of the 80% of the population that carries a strain of herpes? Are you going to go door to door telling these people they are nasty herpes peddlers? Your answer to his betrayal of you is to contribute to a stigma that affects millions. Surely there are better ways. The one who should be punished here is the guy, not everyone who happens to have the same condition.

“But as long as infection lingers in your body, you need to tell the person you’re planning on infecting.”

Only a very few sociopaths “plan” to infect anyone. Most positives suffer terribly from the idea of possibly giving their condition to someone. It seems to me that one bad experience as left you very judgmental. I sympathize with your hurt and understand your wanting to be safe, but there’s no need to make such passive aggressive accusations.

@Arsenic: “Yes it could potentially destroy a budding relationship (but do you really want to have a relationship with that kind of person anyway?). Yes its embarrassing. But you know what? Thats the price you pay for the privilege of being sexually active. And really, in the end, its so worth it.”

Right on.

@Erin G - Really? HPV is all right, but herpes isn’t? HPV is potentially far more serious than herpes. Both are transmitted through contact, but herpes is basically an intermittent skin rash. HPV can cause cancer and warts. But herpes is the “different story?”

Personally, I’m against both of them, but I’d take HPV more seriously even if it is more common. Herpes is an irritating epidermal condition with a bad rep. HPV kills women every day.

subpar
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 03:41 pm: [report]

@awomanfromcolchis

Your contributions to this thread have been insightful and honest and I really applaud you.

Joreth
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 04:15 pm: [report]

@awomanfromcolchis it is permanent, so yes, I can honestly say that I completely understand what “the other side” is coming from and I call #&@$%.

We do need to do some education in this society about STDs and what they are and to remove the stigma.

But that is no excuse.  Knowing one has an STD and not disclosing it is reprehensible and any rationalization for it is inexcusable.

Life rewards those who choose the path of greater courage and being an ethical person does not mean only doing the “right thing” when it’s easy or when there are no repurcussions.

I don’t care how scared someone is or whether they’ll get their feelings hurt.  There is no excuse.  Having a sexual relationship with someone while infected with an STD removes their ability to give informed consent.

Period.

Joreth
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 04:21 pm: [report]

” The ones you SHOULD be worried about are the 75% of infected who don’t know they have it because they don’t show any symptoms.”

Although I do not have access to this statistic to validate or repudate, I agree that not knowing is a big danger.  That’s why all my partners get tested before developing a sexual relationship with me, and I have to see the actual test results on paper from the lab.

This eliminates the “unknown”, “misinformed”, “uneducated” and “lying” all at the same time.

Anyone who refuses to get tested or let me see their results can be assumed to be hiding something, because if they’re not, then there’s no reason why not to do this.  Many county clinics are free or low-cost, Planned Parenthood often has financial aid, and I will pay for it myself if necessary.

If I had done this from the beginning, I wouldn’t be in the position of being able to “see from the other side”.  Since instituting this policy, however, I have remained free from any other infection and I have avoided passing anything on to any other partner through the use of proper education and safe-sex procedures.  I’ve even had a fair amount of partners over my lifetime and *still* managed to avoid any other infections or pass anything to anyone else.  I have had potential partners reject me and I have never blamed them for it.  Plenty of people are still willing to take the risk, as long as they are aware of the risk and can make their own choice to do so.

Symian
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 04:32 pm: [report]

awomanfromcolchis, I can agree that this would not be the best situation for me to handle finding out that my partner has infected me with something that he never gave me the chance to turn away.  And I feel that if he has something that he isn’t going to tell me about, he may as well be planning on spreading it.  But I do hope that should my life ever reach that low, that I can be the better person and simply walk away calmy (even if I am filled with seething hatred). 

I truely admire how calm and even tempered you are about such an emotion provoking subject.  I find it sad that people are more concerned about being rejected or suffering thier own personal injuries to pride than they are about another’s well being and health.  I think it might make a good practice to check your partner’s STD/STI (or whatever they call it now) test results in addition to using a condom everytime.  Maybe this would help cut back on the deception and hurt caused by the lies.

alphabete
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 04:37 pm: [report]

@awomanfromcolchis: It’s my choice not to date someone with VD.  I’m not hurting anyone by not dating someone with VD.  I am 100% VD free and I’d like to keep it that way.  I’ve had friends with VD.  I don’t discriminate, it’s just that no infected person can be allowed to touch my mucus membranes, even through a condom.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 07:40 pm: [report]

@Joreth - I don’t recall rationalizing anything. I repeated several times that there are no excuses and the only thing to do is be ethical, even if it is difficult.

What I do remember talking about is empathy. No, nondisclosure is not right. But it seems to me that too many people who have never experienced anything like it are very quick to condemn those who don’t, for whatever reason. I understand anger and I get that there’s an associated fear, but it’s disturbing to see how intense and hateful many people get about this. The stigma attached to STIs isn’t just about persecuting people out of ignorance, it also has to do with the general public’s reaction to coming into contact with them. When we hear “he didn’t tell her” and the reaction is as vindictive and recoiling as it seems to be, I wonder how much of it is outrage at the fact that he is lying and how much of it is fear of the STI.

You are right. Those of us who have to deal with this should be courageous and responsible. We know what the right thing is. But people make mistakes, and no one is without flaws. There is a difference between a person who doesn’t disclose because they don’t want to and a person who temporarily gives in to fear. Can you honestly say you are fearless 100% of the time, about everything? If so, I sincerely mean it when I say I stand in awe. I only wish I could practice that sort of bravery. And I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I suggest that many more of us fall short of that ideal than we’d like.

I say we fight the source of the fear rather than the consequences. Cut the head off the snake and the rattle isn’t a danger. Would you rather go around shouting “Bad! Bad!” or would you rather ask “Why did this happen?”

I don’t think we should accept excuses, but I also don’t think we should be so hasty to be judge, jury, and executioner. Fight the stigma, not the results of it. You’ll still achieve the same thing: eliminating the stigma will eliminate the lies.

“Although I do not have access to this statistic to validate or repudate…”

I actually made a mistake. (That’s what I get for hurrying!) When I was thinking 75%, I was thinking of 25/75, which is how many have GHSV/how many don’t. So here are the numbers:

Of the population, 25% have GHSV. Of that 25%, only 10% know they have it because of symptoms. So, actually, of those who have GHSV, 90% do not know for lack of symptoms.

Turns out I erred too low.

Also, regarding the whole testing before sexing thing: Jesus. I am impressed.

I have also adopted the testing ritual. I now require any and all partners to be tested, and will summarily reject anyone unwilling to do it. Hopefully, by 2025, the year GHSV is projected to reach the halfway mark, testing for STIs will be the new pre-sex rule for everyone. That’s why I believe in awareness, not prejudice - how many people will be willing to get tested if there’s a chance they could get stuck with a lifetime of stigma? Unfortunately, many people would rather just not know.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 07:42 pm: [report]

@Symian - I sincerely hope you never have to encounter that sort of thing. I urge you to insist all your future partners be tested before intimacy and to carefully consider whoever you are thinking about allowing into your life in that way.

I have to say that I think it’s less about rejection and pride than it is about not wanting to be hurt. I’ve heard so many horror stories about people reacting to the disclosure: name-calling, the fade out, accusations of slutty behavior. One friend told a man about her HSV and only asked that he keep her medical information private even if he did not choose to be with her. He assured her that he would not and then immediately told everyone they knew, including friends, family, and co-workers. The harrassment at work became so bad that she had to quit (I still don’t understand why she won’t sue), and many of their mutual friends stopped speaking to her because “he told them I was a slut and spreading herpes.” The only bright side, she said, was finding out who her real friends were.

Yes, there was a failure of judgment on her part. But I think there was a bigger failure of integrity on the part of the man and many, many other people - of whom statistics say at least 80% have some strain of HSV/HPV.

That is only one example, but I hope you can see how, given the possibility of such a trauma as that, a positive person might be tempted not to tell. They still must, as it is their moral imperative, but surely their fear is understandable.

If you ever witness something like that happening, I’m sure you’d understand immediately. And I really hope you’d step in to stop it, or at least protest.

@alphabete - Of course it is your choice. It is your body and your health, and no one should take that away from you. If an STI is a dealbreaker for you, then so be it. I’m only saddened by the idea that you are committing yourself to outright rejecting up to 80% of the entire American population - but it strikes me that this probably causes more problems for you than for anyone else. Regardless, I firmly defend your right to make such a decision. However, stating something like “if it ever happened to me it would be 100% rape because there’s no way I’d knowingly/willingly bang someone with an std” leaves a very negative impression, of both those with HSV and of you.

In unrelated news, the next time you go in for testing, be sure to specifically ask for the HSV test. Many a “full panel of STI tests” does not include HSV. Doctors are notorious for not wanting to diagnose anyone with herpes. It’s a very minor medical condition in most cases, but patients tend to react so intensely that doctors simply do not want to deal with the emotional trauma and aftermath. (And some insurances don’t cover it.) Maybe you already know this and I’m talking out my ass. I absolutely do not mean to patronize you. I just want you to be aware, and know why so very, very many people don’t know they have an STI.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 07:48 pm: [report]

@Adventurous1 and @subpar - Thank you for your compliments. I’ve heard someone describe herpes as the STI that forces you into maturity, and so far I think it’s held true. I’ve had to do a lot of thinking since my diagnosis, and my determination is this: understanding triumphs over judging, every time. Before I contracted GHSV, I knew next to nothing about the condition and probably would not have continued to date someone who confessed to having it. (Unless it were Billy Idol or Orlando Bloom. I would have dated the hell out of their herpetic asses. I might be kidding. Also, it’s only a rumor that Orlando Bloom has HSV.) Now, being where I am, I realize how ignorant and prejudiced I really was.

Joreth
wrote on June 26 2009 @ 08:44 pm: [report]

@awomanfromcolchis Of course I am not 100% fearless, but when it comes to other people’s safety, I make damn sure I’m as close to it as humanly possible and I err on the side of courage and consideration for the other person.  My bruised ego is not worth someone else’s life, or even their health in the cases of STDs that don’t kill.

I do not think so highly of myself that I can be easily hurt by someone wishing to protect himself.  I have spent many years working to become a courageous person, and situations like this remind me of how much is at stake when I stall.

Courage and bravery are indeed something that can be learned.  The problem is that we spend so much time practicing at being weak or afraid that many people don’t even realize it was something they learned, and believe it to be innate, and that courage is beyond their ability or control.

And that’s simply not true.

I’m a big believer of not allowing the monsters in the closet run my life.  When I have a fear or an insecurity, I march right into that closet, grab that monster by the tail, and haul his ass into the light for a knock-down, drag-out fight to the death.

And, y’know what?  Those monsters are always smaller in the sunlight, when they don’t have shadows to make them look bigger.  And those fights get easier and easier every time.

I recommend reading the following for practical suggestions on how to live a life of courage:

http://tacit.livejournal.com/90763.html Some Thoughts On Truth And Virtue
http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolypiano.html How To Become A Secure Person (interestingly, he uses the exact same monster analogy that I’ve always used, but neither of us had any contact with each other at the time we each independently developed the analogy)
http://tacit.livejournal.com/154844.html Some Musings On Security In Relationships

And of course we need to fight the stigma, which is why I have been very careful to point out that it’s the lying and taking one’s choices away from them is the bad part of the scenario, not having the STD.  I realize that some people above have used language that perpetuate the stigma, but that was not me.  Having lived with an STD, I do not feel “dirty” for having it, any more than I would if I had strep throat, so I can’t condemn others for having an STD, but I might choose to avoid kissing someone with strep throat.

I have also *had* partners with STDs who did notify me ahead of time, so I could make an informed decision.  We agreed that we would limit our behaviour to prevent spreading the infection, but that we could continue to have a romantic relationship.

Making it very clear just how poorly I think of someone who hides his status is part of my efforts to fight the social stigma (and it’s not the only part, my journal that I linked to above focuses more on the re-education of STDs than I did here).  It’s not his infection, it’s his cowardly behaviour.  If he truly cared for me, he would not wish to harm me for his own selfish pleasure and if you cannot confide in the person you want to get naked with, then I propose that you’re trying to get naked with the wrong person.  There’s something very wrong in a society that believes it’s totally acceptable to get in an intimate, vulnerable position, repeatedly, with someone you’re afraid to talk to.

eskim00ninja
wrote on June 27 2009 @ 12:44 pm: [report]

A bruised ego is not equal to cervical cancer/testicular cancer (which HPV normally causes).

For the love of humanity TELL THE PERSON!!!

Admitting you have an STD is apart of being an adult, not spreading it around!

TQ White II
wrote on June 27 2009 @ 11:38 pm: [report]

I’m sorry but I think there is a lot of dishonesty going on here. Sure, it’s all moral and ethical and responsible to tell a person you want to have sex with about your std. It’s also a guaranteed way to not have sex ever again.

I wanted to scream at the screen and say rude things after I read the, for the third or fourth time in this comment thread that someone would rather make an informed decision than hook up with a dishonest person. I suppose that’s true as far as it goes but NONE OF YOU WOULD EVER KNOWINGLY SLEEP WITH AN INFECTED PERSON. Maybe if it was the appropriate side of the Brangelina pair, but most people are just not worth the trouble, especially if you are early in the relationship. I don’t blame you, my “informed decision” would be avoid the virus too, but get some honesty here.

There is another story on this site discussing the problems people with disability have finding partners. The upshot is that a lot of people don’t want the responsibility and don’t see any reason to burden themselves by putting themselves in the position of developing a relationship. Of course, not. There are a lot of non-disabled people out there. All things being equal, why choose to make your life a hassle. Same with virus.

So, cut the “his own selfish pleasure” crap. You are asking him or her to give up having a sex life. This is not a matter of selfishness, it’s a catastrophe. It may be the simple consequence of their reality but the idea that it’s a simple decision is silly and your claims of tolerance are crap-o-la.

Joreth
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 08:28 am: [report]

@TQ White II: To repeat myself yet again ...

I have an STD and I have not lacked for partners, none of whom have contracted it.  I have also chosen a partner with an STD and taken the precautions necessary to avoid infection successfully for the entire duration of that relationship.  Different people have different levels of personal safety, and some people view certain STDs worth the risk for the exchange of a long-term relationship and/or a non-life-threatening illness that is easily treatable.  Some merely require a round of antibiotics.  Some, like herpes, are so common that there are people willing to risk exposure because they’re pretty sure they’re going to get it sometime anyway. 

Then there’s also the little fact inconvenient to your theory that there are entire dating sites specifically for people with STDs, because if you have one and you hook up with someone who has the same one, no one gets hurt. 

Not to mention the fact that about half of the STDs are not permanent and simply waiting until the infection clears up is often sufficient.

So no, disclosing an STD does not condemn a person to life-long celibacy.  You’re full of #&@$%.  It is “his own selfish pleasure”, it’s not a catastrophe.  Living with an STD, even HIV, is not an immediate death sentence or even a permanent sort of purgatory.  It sucks, it could mean death, and it could mean complications, but it doesn’t mean never having sex again.

It *is* a simple decision, you can be an ethical person or you can be more interested in having orgasms than protecting the lives and health of another human being and giving them the dignity they deserve to make informed decisions about their own life.

IAMME
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 09:52 am: [report]

I agree with awomanfromcolchis, have some compassion, if you are told that someone has a STD and choose to not have sex with that person because of that for God’s sake don’t go blabbing to every one you know that they are infected, obviously they are being mature, responsible adults about it, they told YOU., so there is nothign to be gained from you telling everyoen their private medical history that they choose to share with you.

On another note, I once got Trich from a guy, and he REFUSED to believe he had given it to me, told me he had gone to the doctor and that the doctor told him he was fine, and he refused treatment, bc he “knew he didnt have it”, a few months later a mutual friend was hired to clean his house and asked me to help her (which was something I occasionally did for extra $$ and I agreed, while cleaning his house I found THREE prescriptions for Flagyl for different women he had been involved with previous to me, and 6 FULL bottle of it for him (dating back THREE years)!!! This man was KNOWINGLY spreading an infection that can be treated!!!! WTH? I developed PID from the trich and was treated, and everything turned out fine, well I guess, I dont know if the PID caused any scarring/infertility problems, and since I am done having children am not concerned (however what about the other girls he infected who may CARE about their fertility???) This guy REALLY pisses me off bc he could so easily TREAT his condition and still chooses to infect women, and then tries to blame it on them!!!

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 10:49 am: [report]

@TQ and @Joreth - It seems to me you two make up what could almost be the two opposite ends of the spectrum: one person who thinks it’s understandable, if not moral, to not disclose, and one person who asserts that it is absolutely unacceptable.

I think both of you are right in your own ways. No, not disclosing is never right or justified. But, because of the societal pressure and stigma attached, it is significantly harder for a positive to find love or at least sexual partners than it is for a negative. Apparently, Joreth, you’ve had many good experiences in addition to bad ones - and that’s totes inspiring - but I think you can agree that this is not so for everyone. It certainly isn’t for me. Not disclosing isn’t always about being “more interested in having orgasms.” Sometimes, it’s just about fear, especially the fear of losing someone you care about or the fear of being alone. I know you have a whole other post about the nature of courage and courageous behavior, and I did read it. But, again, I don’t believe anything is as clear cut as being told to be brave and then just doing it. I agree that you have a very good point and I wish more people would be influenced by it - it’s an inspirational philosophy. I just don’t think it’s as uniformly easy as you say. I also disagree with your method of delivery. I would rather ask questions and discuss than simply write people off as being selfish. Too many are just scared or misinformed and make mistakes - all they need is a push in the right direction.

That being said, sorry, TQ, but not informing your partner is, in fact, quite selfish. Depending on your condition, it could even be construed as murder. But this doesn’t necessarily condemn you to being alone for the rest of your life. Which brings me to another question - what exactly is your goal in meeting people? If it’s to have lots of sex with multiple partners, well, that IS going to be difficult to achieve while doing the right thing. Difficult, but not impossible. And perhaps you might want to reconsider what it is you want out of a relationship.

Frankly, I think the American culture is way too obssessed with sex anyway. There is something fundamentally selfish about recent generations, and this selfishness affects everything from sexual encounters and relationships to how we treat others in the pursuit of it and in relation to ourselves. I firmly believe nondisclosure has more to do with fear than anything else, but our general sense of entitlement can’t be helping.

@IAMME - It’s repeat offending as*holes like that who make it so much harder for everyone else! If this wasn’t too far back and you can get into contact with the other women, I would seriously consider bringing legal action against him. And while I despise people who spread around other people’s medical information, in this case it might be the humane thing to do. Not in a “OMG, he’s got this!” sort of way, but a “This man is deliberately spreading an STI. You need to avoid him,” at least in your social circle. That kind of behavior seems pathological to me, which goes beyond either fear or selfishness. He needs professional help.

Sigh. One step forward, three steps back…

sparklestar
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 11:08 am: [report]

You went through his cupboards? I mean, I guess it’s justified but that’s a whole breach of something else right there…

You should sue him.

Joreth
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 11:08 am: [report]

@awomanfromcolchis I never said “easy”, I said “simple”.  All reasons for being afraid still lead to being selfish (arising from concern with one’s own welfare or advantage **in disregard of others**) and a lack of courage and I do not respect anyone who chooses to give into their fears when the result is a direct negative affect on another human being.  They do not have my respect nor sympathy.

Someone who is afraid but who steps up to the plate and acts courageously in the face of their fear, now they deserve my sympathy.  Having been in exactly that position, I see no problem with condemning someone for not being a grown up and taking responsibility for their actions.

We are often dealt a #&@$% hand, but it’s how that hand is played that defines the player.  Bad things happen to people, but that is no excuse whatsoever for behaving in a morally reprehensible manner.  Their reasons are irrelevant, I’m already aware of all the reasons why someone would not *want* to disclose.  None of those reasons come even close to the damage that nondisclosure does, so I don’t care about their reasons.  They are wrong, cowardly, and do not deserve my sympathy.

Misinformation is also not acceptable, because part of being a responsible adult engaging in sexual behaviour is to be educated about the process.  We do not allow people to drive vehicles without taking a vehicle safety course.  We should know about our own health and safety, of which sexual health is only a small part.  Anyone who is a product of Abstinence Only is supposed to not be having sex in the first place, so if they are, they are going against their religious beliefs and are therefore hypocrites and, again, do not deserve my sympathy.

To that end, however, I am actively in the process of distributing education about sexual health, so I am not merely ranting without doing something about the problem.

If you are going to have sex, you should be responsible about it, which includes understanding the mechanics, the safety precautions, your own body, and accepting responsibility for the consequences of your own actions.

Any other action, regardless of emotional reaction, insecurity, or fear, is not being a responsible adult, a courageous or ethical person.

As I’ve already said, being an ethical person is not doing the right thing when it’s easy, it’s doing the right thing when it’s hard.  If you can’t do that, then you are not an ethical person.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 12:14 pm: [report]

@Joreth - You seem to be missing my point. I have already agreed with you several times on the ethics and morality of the situation we are discussing. Nondisclosure is NOT right. We both agree on the responsible and ethically correct thing to do. I am not arguing that. We agree on the mechanics of it.

What I am arguing is your willingness to tar everyone with the same brush. Following your logic, no one can ever make mistakes and anything short of perfection is to immediately be condemned. I reject that. I have made too many mistakes in my life to expect such rigid flawlessness from everyone else. Granted, some situations are more black and white than others (not disclosing when you have, say, HIV would indeed be heinous beyond most other things), but mistakes do happen. I believe there is a difference between the man in IAMME’s situation who knew but chose not to speak and another man with HSV whose doctor actually told him not to worry about telling people as long as he wasn’t having an outbreak. This really does happen.

Which brings me to misinformation. Positive people are not the only ones responsible for this phenomenon. Doctors routinely give bad advice, and there is still literature left over from the 70s that give absurd information. Why do you think so many people think condoms protect you from HPV and HSV? There is a difference between ignorant and misinformed. It disturbs me that you are so quick to blame even this on the positive person without asking any further questions. What if their doctor told them the wrong thing? What if they were given outdated literature from the CDC? Are we also supposed to be responsible for things that are out of our control? If the vehicle safety course is itself flawed, how are we to know we shouldn’t be driving?

I also find it interesting that this sort of responsibility is expected from a positive every time, but almost never from a negative. Shouldn’t all sexually active adults be equally responsible? If you think you don’t have any STIs but have never been tested and use only condoms or birth control for protection (if you use anything at all), how does that make you more responsible than the person who knows they have HSV but takes anti-virals, uses condoms, abstains during outbreaks, and doesn’t say anything? Why is it generally acceptable for negatives to go out and have unprotected hook-ups and never get tested but a positive practicing absolute caution is still a criminal if she/he doesn’t say anything?

I won’t even go into the Abstinence Only question. I find that philosophy unreasonable and unenforcable. My only contention is that sometimes, being a product of Abstinence Only education is NOT a choice. Many schools teach nothing but, and if your parents refuse to espouse anything but “Dont do it!” it’s hard to accurately know about anything else. And the information available online is also not always correct or accurate. How many adolescents do you know today who can be trusted to go online, do their research, and form an educated, responsible, mature opinion while ignoring all the false info, political posturing, and rampantly prejudiced forum talk? If your answer is “A lot!” then please consider yourself blessed. Or sheltered. So writing off the average product of many of our high schools today as “hypocrites” is, to me, really shortsighted.

I do not disagree with your ideals. They are in alignment with my own. My contention is that it is better to educate and lead than berate and punish. Shouting “You are a bad person!” only leads to more bad behavior. Most people will ignore the person yelling at them, and contempt never breeds respect. So even if you are a strong person capable of doing everything you espouse, it seems unrealistic to expect everyone else to adhere to the same high standards without fail. That’s just a different kind of judging. When you say “their reasons are irrelevant,” you are basically saying that no one else’s motivations or thoughts or behavioral causes matter - yours is the only viewpoint you consider valid. And yes, I agree that your viewpoint has a very strong moral base to stand on - but it’s also coming across as extremely narrow-minded, without room for growth or encouraging others to follow. For you, it is all or nothing. People are either “good” or “bad.”

You seem to expect a level of responsibility from people that even you did not have before you were directly affected. And I suspect that it took time to reach the point you are at now. So you did, in fact, grow and learn from your experiences. From what you’ve posted, you seem to have had to grow into an ethical, courageous, responsible person. Why deny this same thing to others?

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 12:15 pm: [report]

There are so many things wrong with our current situation. Misinformation, a general societal reluctance to talk about these matters, the national argument over sex education, conservative values over liberal ones, and even our country’s deep-rooted Puritan background. The stigma is not just one thing. Neither is the average person. Each and every one of us has a unique background and unique thought processes. One person’s motivation for disclosing is probably not the same as another’s. For some it is so easy they are completely open about it to their immediate social circle. For others, it is such a heavy, stifling shame that they isolate themselves for years.

I’m happy for you if the former case is yours. I’m glad you have such support and are so strong about it. But I think you’re wrong to be so inflexible with everyone else.

Nondisclosure is NOT RIGHT. It is, in fact, morally bankrupt. But it is not impossible to see how it might happen, and why it does.

Awareness and education it the answer, not condemnation.

TQ White II
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 12:45 pm: [report]

Here’s how I can tell, Joreth, that you are playing manipulative games. It’s this phrase,“he little fact inconvenient to your theory.” That tells me that you are in an hysterical fit of self-righteousness. I don’t like it and think you should stop using belittling language like that.

I know that there are people that find ways forward with diseases, just as people with handicaps to. Hell, for the latter, there are people with fetishes to support them. As another commenter pointed out, it is absolutely beyond question that life is more difficult for those with STDs. While I might have overstated when I said, “never”, the sense was correct. A person with an STD that is about to hook up with someone is very, very likely to have his or her hopes dashed. Likely to the point of having to go to an internet leper colony to find someone with a compatible disease.

I never said, nor do I believe, that one should conceal one’s condition. I agree that the ethical position is to tell all. I also think that it is ethical to never, ever steal. Yet, I am tolerant of people that are hungry and transgress. No one should, but the free use of the term #&@$% in this thread suggests a lack of sensitivity and nuance that is unseemly.

People that have suffered the train wreck of having had a diseased partner are in a tough position. It’s not as simple as “just say I got it.” A person can get mighty horny after years of telling the truth and going home alone.

One other thing. A question was raised that the website reported to me as a response to my note. It suggested that a person that was hooking up for sex alone belongs in a special, lesser category than those that only want to have sex to make love. I wish this sort of conservative thinking would go away. People need sex. Some like it to be connected with love. Others don’t. The assumptions underlying the judgement that this is somehow more selfish or less virtuous are not attractive. Love is good. Sex is good. It’s up to each person to organize their priorities and it’s no more, or less, noble to reveal or conceal for either situation.

Joreth
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 12:49 pm: [report]

@awomanfromcolchis

Again, I have no sympathy precisely because I was in that position and I got myself out.

I was also misinformed about my condition by a doctor.  By several.  It never once occurred to me that non-disclosure was responsible behaviour.  People disclose when they have a cold, so why on earth wouldn’t someone disclose that their genitals are doing something funny to the person who is about to come into contact with them?

I educated myself in spite of the misinformation from the doctors because that’s part of being a responsible, sexually active adult.

And as I’ve already said more than once, lack of education is a different topic.

Knowing that one has an illness, even if they are misinformed about the nature of that illness, and willfully exposing someone else to that illness out of fear is unacceptable, period, end of story.

No, I have no tolerance for cowards or unethical people.  Everyone feels fear and everyone is subject to misinformation.  Not everyone allows themselves to fall victim to it or to use that as an excuse to treat others poorly.

Joreth
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 12:51 pm: [report]

Oh, and “Shouldn’t all sexually active adults be equally responsible?”

Yes.  I am not absolving anyone of their responsibilities.  I’ve already gone on at great length about my charts and regular testing procedures and disclosure conversations.

Joreth
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 12:59 pm: [report]

@TQ White II: I have had more than 30 partners over my lifetime even after full disclosure.  So don’t give me that #&@$% about people not being able to find partners when they have an STD.  The chances are more likely that it’s some other reason that they’re going home alone.

I’m sorry you don’t like my use of language, I don’t like your accusations of being hysterical.  Get over it.

The fact is that having an STD does not condemn people to celibacy, nor is it even very difficult to find partners.  The fear of such is not a reason to condemn someone else to the same fate.  It is a cowardly thing to do and it shows a complete lack of respect for the other person.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 01:17 pm: [report]

@Joreth: “Again, I have no sympathy precisely because I was in that position and I got myself out.”

Again, just because one thing applies to you doesn’t mean it applies to everyone.

It seems we are simply going to disagree. Personally, I think you are too inflexible, but you probably think I am too elastic, if not an outright rubber band. So I guess it all evens out. Fair enough. We all have our own opinions, and I think any more argument on the matter would just be a waste. You will espouse what you will, and I’ll do the same. Since we are both against the stigma and for honesty, I don’t see anything wrong with that.

It was an interesting conversation. Thank you.

Joreth
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 01:35 pm: [report]

@awomanfromcolchis You are probably right about having to agree to disagree. 

Although I did re-read your statistic comment, and I do have to be pedantic in pointing out the inaccurate picture your numbers produce.

First of all, 90% if people with HSV don’t know they have it still leaves 77.5% of the general population without the virus (based on your numbers of 25% of the total population are infected, but 90% of *them* don’t know it).

And if 22.5% of the population have HSV and don’t know it, then where did the statistic come from?  If the health industry knows that many people have HSV, then *why* don’t the people with it know?  In order for the medical industry to know that someone has it, that must mean they did a test on that person, and part of that testing procedure comes with telling the person the results.  If they didn’t know it prior to the test, well, they know it now and are no longer eligible to be counted in that population who is ignorantly spreading the virus.

I did want to point out that I agree that education to prevent the STD and remove the stigma in the first place is important, and one of the many things I do in my efforts to eliminate STDs from the sexual experience.  But that’s not the question of this article.  The question was, is it ever OK to not disclose?  It’s just that, once they have it, it’s too late for me to educate them for prevention, and I hold them accountable for their behaviour when they know they have something and don’t disclose.

awomanfromcolchis
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 02:21 pm: [report]

@Joreth - Stats are based on trend data. Obviously it cannot be based on case reporting data. For that matter, no stats on any illnesses are based on 100% case reporting data. Testing everyone in the country is unrealistic, if not impossible. All the stats that we have - on anything, not just HSV - are based on projections. So to say that “for the medical industry to know that someone has it, that must mean they did a test on that person” is to be deliberately obtuse. Look at the stats for HPV, which I’m sure you know better than I. Yet many women don’t know they have it until it turns into cancer. How do you explain that? Did the CDC go out and test every woman in the country for HPV? If so, why are so many women so surprised when they are diagnosed? And why is modern medicine so intent on explaining to us that many, many men have it if they can’t even test accurately for it?

If you’re looking for an argument on statistics, I’m afraid I’ll have to bow out. I don’t want to waste my time arguing possible numbers. I’d rather go with the best information available and lobby for better.

Besides, herpes has been around since ancient times. The Greek Hippocrates wrote on the disease. During the Roman Empire, Emperor Tiberius banned public kissing in ceremonies and rituals to try and reduce a herpes epidemic. Herpes has been around probably as long as humans have. Frankly, I’m surprised we don’t ALL have it.

So if you’re wondering at my logic, I am wondering at yours. I guess great minds think alike.

For further information, I refer you to the CDC.

As far as numbers go, 25% is an approximate number in relation to GHSV. There are two strains of HSV: HSV-1 and HSV-2. HSV-2 primarily causes genital herpes, HSV-1 primarily causes cold sores. Around 25% of the population has HSV-2, or GHSV (the most common quote I’ve seen is 1 in 4 women, 1 in 5 men). 80% or more have HSV-1, or OHSV. I’m sure you’ve seen more than a few cold sores.

About the number 25: I’ve read it as both less and more. Some places claim 24.something. Others said 26 or 27.something. And the CDC out and out says that most of its accumulated data is beginning to be outdated. I feel this only illustrates how misinformation persists - when even government sources aren’t 100% reliable, where do you turn?

“I hold them accountable for their behaviour when they know they have something and don’t disclose.”

Agreed. I never said don’t hold them accountable. But our society actually grades murder - Murder 1, Murder 2, manslaughter. We look at the circumstances and render judgment based on them. Are you saying we can do that for murder but we can’t do that for disclosure of STIs?

Oy. I thought this was over. I think we have something else in common: wanting to have the last word.

alphabete
wrote on June 28 2009 @ 04:46 pm: [report]

@TQ White II
“I never said, nor do I believe, that one should conceal one’s condition. I agree that the ethical position is to tell all. I also think that it is ethical to never, ever steal. Yet, I am tolerant of people that are hungry and transgress.”

It’s one thing to steal when you’re hungry.  When you’re having sex with someone who would not have sex with you because you’re diseased, that’s rape.

beana2506
wrote on June 30 2009 @ 12:56 pm: [report]

I agree everyone has a right to make there decision if they sleep with someone who has a std.. WHILE IT MAY BE EMBARASSING think how you would feel if someone knew they had one didnt tell you and then you got it.. In this world now std r sooo common we all need to remember that in the heat of the moment

jadoremode
wrote on July 6 2009 @ 04:11 am: [report]

Unfortunately for me, I have NO idea if he knew but I think he did, he gave me both chlamydia and genital warts. Chlamydia, first, and I slept with 3 different guys after that b/c I honestly thought I was clean. I took multiple std tests and it came up clean. Then months later, I started having sex with this guy I’ve truly care about, I had no idea, I wasn’t educated on genital warts, so, I was having sex with him while the warts were on my body. But they didn’t look like warts, they looked like a rash but when I went to the hospital, they told me it was warts. How embarrassing, I should have known, the guy I was currently having sex with even kind of mentioned to me that I should get checked and I did. Wow, you know, I couldn’t believe it, the guy who gave it to me was the first guy I’ve slept with and only. Soo… it was kind of a slap to my face. You know, luckily, I was using a condom with the 3 other guys but the guy I was currently sleeping with, we stopped using condoms because we were in a committed, exclusive relationship. I mean, luckily, the guy I was with, stayed with me but you know, I wish the guy who gave me two stds would’ve told me or would’ve gotten checked. It was so embarrassing, I had to keep going to the hospital b/c the freezing didn’t work and then I had to get it acid removed and it was painful, the warts traveled to my anus and I had to get all these meds. the most humiliating months of my life. I wanted to die, I never felt so slutty and I know I’m not a slut but the fact that someone could do that to me. And I’m in the military, so, he told everybody he worked with, EVERYBODY, my sexual history that he gave me two stds and he was laughing about it. Honestly, now that I’m thinking about it, I may sue him because the fact that he was laughing about it, telling people like it was a joke. He #&@$% up my #&@$% life. So, tell people. I mean my doctors told me as long as I don’t have an outbreak don’t tell people but I do think it’s wrong and it’s hard which is why I don’t around. Honestly, in the military STDs are probably worse, our doctor’s just tell us that mostly everybody has the virus for HPV, just some actually show symptoms. It’s sad huh? Wrap it up people and tell people.

Sakura Kawaii-hime
wrote on September 9 2009 @ 12:16 pm: [report]

I believe that if you have an STD you should tell you potential partner before having any kind of sexual contact. And anyone who has an STD and doesnt say anything is a coward. I got a pap-smear recently that came back abnormal, it was the 2nd pap I got in my whole 20 years of life, the first one I got was when I was 12 because I was rape and I didnt know anything about STD’s or HPV for that matter and I received a phone call from the doctor saying something I didnt understand and the doc wanted my mom to call back. Now that I know Im positive for HPV I wonder if back then I had also been positive and my mom never called back or if she knew and just didnt want to tell me. And if that was the case who I might of accidentally given it to not knowing. Makes me feel awful knowing the my last b/f who was a virgin gave it to his next g/f and now she has cancer just because I didnt know cuz I had never gotten tested, cuz I didnt money for a doctor to go to.

duhh
wrote on October 25 2009 @ 01:56 am: [report]

um, yea, I think I might just avoid these kind of articles like the plague from now on…...because I don’t have an STD…...and y’all have me having my monogamous partner of 17 years looking at my hootchie with a flashlight now…...oh yea, you do….......
I’m thinking of going to the free clinic (incognito) and with rubber gloves on so I don’t catch anything…...yea…..the only thing I have ever had is cold sores and fever blisters on my lip area…..when I’m sick….....and now you tell me that if I date, when I transfer this UNKNOWINGLY to another person, as I don’t and I know they don’t either check the inside of their mouth during sickness or a common cold to see what exactly is in there…...I could get sued for giving someone a cold sore???????????????

Isn’t our society a bit ridiculous these days and sue happy just a tad???????????

I would never ostracize, condemn or anything else for that matter an honest person I was dating for giving me something that they unknowingly had and didn’t know it….........I might kick them in the nuts if they did know it….but I wouldn’t sue them…..and most likely I wouldn’t even do that….........because if this strain of Herpes, is not even tested for when you go to get an STD test, or the HPV is not detected in men…..HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO KNOW THEY HAVE IT?  And how is everyone on the planet supposed to know when they have a cold sore….......my significant other has kissed me plenty times on the mouth when I had fever blisters during a cold, when I was clearly over heating, that’s why they call them that…..and he never got anything from it…........

so, if men can’t be tested for HPV and no one tests for whatever the ehck that other one was HSV-v2..then how are people supposed to know if they have it?

ARE WE ALL SUPPOSED TO CARRY AROUND PAPERS WITH US WHEN WE DATE?

Joreth
wrote on October 26 2009 @ 12:39 pm: [report]

ARE WE ALL SUPPOSED TO CARRY AROUND PAPERS WITH US WHEN WE DATE?

Actually, yes, I do. 

I expect my partners to notify me when they have a cold or the flu or any other illness before I kiss them, so I can make my own choice to expose myself or not.  A coldsore shouldn’t be any different.

It’s true that men can’t be tested, but men can be aware of their female partners’ and ex-partners’ health status.  If she has normal pap smears, he can safely assume he is not a high-risk for spreading HPV.

Being aware of your own health status, not just sexual status, is part of being a responsible adult.

Joreth
wrote on October 26 2009 @ 12:41 pm: [report]

Oh, and you *can* get tested for HSV, you just may have to go to a private physician to do it and it may cost you money out of pocket.  It’s the free and cheap clinics that often don’t have the test available.

Joreth
wrote on October 26 2009 @ 12:45 pm: [report]

*sigh* one of these days I’ll remember to wait a few minutes before posting so that I don’t think of stuff later and end up making several posts.

Anyway, @duhh, you don’t actually need paperwork, you already know you’re a carrier for HSV since you get coldsores.  You just need to disclose that you carry the virus, and you need to disclose again when you are aware of an active infection (a coldsore).