Is It Her Rape Fantasy Or His?
Posted by: Amelia McDonell-Parry
Filed in:
sex
3:30PM, Friday January 30th 2009
In an essay published on Nerve.com, Matt Morse writes about the time he roofied his wife to save their marriage. “Roofie” is the slang term for Rohypnol, commonly known as the date rape drug. Before getting married, Morse and his wife had an adventurous sex life filled with role-play, but after marriage, he writes, “our fantasies would have to be safe, like the rest of our over-insured suburban existence.” Before she requested that he participate in her date rape fantasy, Morse and his wife hadn’t had sex in three years. When she proposed the fantasy, Morse doesn’t even blink, his mind immediately wandering to cover the details.
“To drug and abduct my wife — but which drug? Television seems to have convinced her that date-rape concoctions are ubiquitous, as if I could just run to the nearest GNC or have a box overnighted from a website in Mexico. The latter might be true, but I’d prefer not to add my name to any FBI lists. So while she’s in the bedroom, I rifle through the medicine cabinet and find a stash of giant pink pills — some sort of narcotic from the dentist — and throw a small handful into the coffee grinder. Decisions, decisions. My costume, my fake name, my fake identity — there is so much that has to be just right. Konked-out victim? Her part is child’s play. I’ll be the one who has to drive the conversation and strike the proper balance between charming and sinister, all the while maintaining some sort of backchannel of actual attraction. I douse myself in aftershave and begin humming the jingle, or what I remember of it. “There’s something about an Aqua Velva man.” Oh yes, there is: He drugs strange woman and drags them back to his lair.
While this story initially suggests that the rape fantasy is hers, one that he has to partake in order to “save” their sexless marriage, I think it’s more his fantasy than hers. His lack of hesitation about participating in a sexual scenario that’s based on violating his wife, not to mention his immediate mental brainstorming session, makes it clear that his participation doesn’t require convincing. But perhaps that’s the point—in her fantasy, he has the control.
I’ve always tried to be very non-judgmental about what gets people off in the privacy and safety of their own home, between consensual partners. Clearly, Morse and his wife participated in this rape fantasy willingly, thereby making it about as close to real rape as ANY consensual sexual encounter. Frankly, I can’t understand the appeal, nor the desire to play that much of a victim role during sex—but then again, I like a lil’ spanking, and some might find that reprehensible.
But the crux of Morse’s belief is that it’s okay to “rape” his wife, because it’s a shared fantasy—that the fact that he has his own rape fantasy makes participating in hers okay. The idea is that you should never do anything in bed that you’re not comfortable with, but I can’t help but feel that this is the exception to the rule. If I had a rape fantasy about being violated by someone pretending to be a stranger, I wouldn’t want it to include someone I loved, who had a fantasy of victimizing me.
Tracie Egan, who writes for Jezebel, once wrote a story for Vice, called “One Rape Please (To Go)” about her own date rape fantasy, if which she paid (or tried to pay, as the experience didn’t actually come to fruition) a male prostitute to date rape her. While I thought the story was fascinating to read, the problem I had with it was that I didn’t think Egan—or for that matter Morse—illuminated the difference between a rape fantasy and actual rape or came to the conclusion that acting out a rape fantasy is not the same as actually being raped.
But if fantasizing about being raped does not reflect the real experience of actually being raped, is fantasizing about raping a willing partner just as harmless? For whatever reason, I don’t think it is, which is why I found Morse’s story so…creepy.
- Today’s Lady News: Polanski’s Lawyer Says He’s Been Punished Enough For Drugging, Raping Teen
- Today’s Lady News: After Homecoming Dance Gang Rape, City Struggles With Blaming The Victim
- Today’s Lady News: 6 Bodies Found At Cleveland Rapist’s Home
- Nicole Richie is Hospitalized! (Us Weekly)
- A History: Sex Tapes We Weren't Suppossed to See (Maxim)
TheFrisky.com is part of the Turner Sports and Entertainment Digital Network
Erin G
wrote on January 30 2009 @ 03:37 pm: [report]
What happens when someone sees him roofie a drink? “Oh no dude, that’s my wife, she wants it!”
Nick at Night
wrote on January 30 2009 @ 04:43 pm: [report]
Sounds like a very unsafe way to act out a fantasy. What if she has an adverse reaction to the drug and stops breathing? Is he going to notice while he’s banging her corpse? How’s he going to explain that to their children/her family/a jury/to himself?
jazzyj
wrote on January 30 2009 @ 05:33 pm: [report]
It’s really frightening to me for women to say they have rape fantasies because I have this fear that men will read that and think women really like to be raped. It seems like a lot of men think that anyway, and women saying they have fantasies about being raped could only make it worse. But, I am not in favor of censorship or anything like that. I think its good to talk about what we like sexually, but I think that women who have rape fantasies would not really want to be raped. Not most of them anyway, but then, I am wondering if they want to be raped by a stranger or not because they say they have rape fantasies. So, if I’m confused, wouldn’t men be too? And, where does the line get drawn? I mean if this man has a fantasy about raping his wife, what about a fantasy about goats or children?
eden
wrote on January 30 2009 @ 07:27 pm: [report]
@jazzyj: Hope I can give you an insight on this a little more! Yes, some women really DO have fantasies about *actually* being raped by a stranger. Its certainly a minority, but in the BDSM community its not uncommon (if you really wanted to know, you could go on fetlife, which is like facebook for kinky people and someone on there will be kind enough to explain it as best as they can, I’m sure). For other women and men, it is simply a fantasy, or they make it a type of role play with their partner. Almost all rape play will be consensual, except the small minority, who don’t want an element of fakeness to it. Often the person who wants to actually act out these fantasies will be used to power-exchanges, domination and/or submission in their sex lives.
IMO, most men who want to rape or ‘rape’ their wives or partners will tend to be people in a kinky relationship because this isn’t something you can push on someone who is not into it. In that case, there will already be implied consent within the relationship. Now this is not necessarily the case, and we all know there are awful, horrific people out there. But I think we can all see having kinky fantasies or a certain dynamic in a relationship is not the same as being an actual criminal sex offender! (The drugs thing in this one worries me, however.)
If any man is stupid enough to think that women actually want to be raped because some women have that fantasy, then they are the worst kind of idiot pervert and deserve a kick upside the head or worse. Its like the whole short-skirt, asking for it thing. Ugh. Now, the dude in this article seems like a total prick, because I find it hard to believe that if they were that sexually connected to have that intense a fantasy and the will to act it out in common, then they would have had sex, like, less than three years ago. Anyway, the drugs are horrifically dangerous. If anyone has come across this article while looking up rape play, DON’T DO IT!
Phew, that was a long post! Hope it made sense!
Love Eden x
crosenyc
wrote on January 30 2009 @ 08:14 pm: [report]
Having been raped as a 17-year old virgin, I don’t understand why anyone would want that experience. But I also know that whatever women with rape fantasies are imagining, it’s not pain and fear. Maybe there should be a different name for this kind of fantasy.
One Big Voice
wrote on January 30 2009 @ 09:40 pm: [report]
crosenyc, I could not agree more. There is nothing fun or ###### about actual rape. Anyone out there who thinks different, please check yourself in to the nearest psych ward. What these people are thinking of is closer to “anonymous” sex, where you don’t even know the other person’s name. That kind of sex is still consensual—NOT the case with rape, where one person is a very unwilling participant.
One Big Voice
wrote on January 30 2009 @ 09:43 pm: [report]
Sorry, I’m at work and I guess the net nanny kicked in when I tried to type er0+ic
ShortyDooWop
wrote on January 30 2009 @ 11:01 pm: [report]
so much to say, don’t know where to start. i definitely see both sides. nobody who’s been raped and hated it could understand anyone wanting that to happen to them…however, there are women out there who have been raped and aren’t traumatized. everybody has different reactions but for the men and women out there who want the “rape” fantasy, let’s make sure there is some consent involved…even if you tell your beau 5 years in advance! (i.e. when you start dating you tell him you have a rape fantasy, he should wait a long time so he catches you off guard so there’s some authenticity)
alezsu
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 03:27 am: [report]
Just to be clear: People who have or act out a rape fantasy DO NOT necessarily think that an actual rape would be a great or erotic experience. It’s a fantasy, plain and simple. Many women also fantasize about sex with authority figures; this does not mean that they think it would be swell to screw the next cop they see.
Also, I gotta disagree with you a bit, OneBigVoice - I don’t think that rape fantasies are equivalent to anonymous sex fantasies. Rape fantasies tend to be more about the desire to be relieved of control (and thus responsibility) in a sexual situation. It can also be about the desire to be dominated by a partner, sometimes with specific gender play in mind. As an extension or expression of a power exchange dynamic, the appeal of a rape fantasy might also be the surrender of personal power to a specific sex partner whom one can trust to completely control the situation. Also, for some women who have experienced actual sexual trauma in the past, the acting out of a rape scenario, but with a trusted partner, in a situation which is actually under their control (they do plan the fantasy, after all, and bring it to the table) can be a form of processing.
That’s a bit different from anonymous sex, wherein the thrill lies in the violation of socially expected emotional attachment to a sexual partner, in the gamble of not knowing - the person could be/have been anybody! - etc. However, in the anonymous sex fantasy, the fantasizer still maintains control over the situation - the sex is consensual and is over when they say it’s over.
I think the difference is in the desire for/rejection of control. The lack of control is the fundamental appeal of a rape fantasy; not so for anonymous sex.
* side note to crosenyc: some women do desire pain and fear in their sexual fantasies. Albeit, they may be a small minority, but certainly do exist.
eden
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 03:53 am: [report]
alezsu - thankyou, you just said exactly and perfectly what I was going to say! Sorry girls, its hard to understand, but its true. Its risky for the women, upsetting for some of us, but true nonetheless.
@ crosenyc: I dont think there should be a different name for it, because thats what people fantasize about. As a woman who does fantasize about pain and fear…well, some women fantasize about pain and fear! Its hard for some people to get their head around, but it happens, and on this topic, the people who do fantasize about rape are aware it can be distressing to others and would never push their fantasies onto others. I hope that I’m not coming across as harsh or defending something awful, but it is how it is and I think I’m in a position to offer an alternative viewpoint, so here I am!
Anonymous3
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 08:01 am: [report]
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One Big Voice
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 12:19 pm: [report]
alezsu: It sounds to me like you are describing a submissive fantasy. Again, this involves mutual consent—and the use of a “safe word” that the person being dominated can use at any time they feel uncomfortable.
The bottom line here is that it is offensive to rape victims when they hear other people claiming to fantasize about what was, to the victim, an extremely traumatic experience.
I am saddened whenever I hear about people who “desire pain and fear in their fantasies”. I can only guess that you were sexually abused as a child and somehow equate abuse with love. In psychological terms, this is a “twisted way of thinking”, and can be treated very effectively with CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy), usually in a short period of time. If anyone reading this would like help with this, e-mail me and I’ll try to direct you to some people that can assist you. If you’re too shy, try doing a search of “support for rape victims”.
eatmybook
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 01:42 pm: [report]
As a young girl I was fairly determined to hang on to my virginity for as long as I could. As a result, I worried about sex all the time. Around 17 or 18 I developed a “rape fantasy,” that was sexually satisfying in my mind and it bothered me for all my feminist adult years. Until I realized that it wasn’t being “raped” that I wanted, so much as I wanted the responsibility of my morality taken away from me. I wanted someone else to make the decision to have sex because I seemed to afraid.
I didn’t want to be hurt, or frightened (and in fact that fantasy sort of melded with a molestation fantasy I had, in which I was actually seduced, cajoled and convinced by John Denver to have sweet, tentative sex—but I was talked into it and he was unstoppable. Sigh. I have to go have a shower now. With the pulsating setting.)
The rape fantasy faded after I became sexually active. Seems to me I was right on the nose with the psycho-babble, huh?
eden
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 02:44 pm: [report]
@onebigvoice: Sorry, and I don’t normally say this flat out, but you are wrong. Wanting pain and fear as part of your sexuality does NOT mean you are mentally ill. Just because something is offensive to rape victims does NOT mean it doesn’t exist. People can’t help how they feel and rape fantasists are aware of how thier fantasies could affect actual rape victims. I have every sympathy for people who have been sexually abused or assaulted. But as a kinkster and a feminist - and yes, they do co-exist - I have to accept that some people’s fantasies are different to other peoples fantasies and views of sexuality
Do you think I’m mentally ill because I like to be punched, slapped, and beaten during sex? I have never been sexually abused in any way whatsoever, am in good health, have been in a loving, monogamous relationship for over seven years, my parents are still together and as far as I am aware have a healthy, loving and sexual relationship. I have a good degree in psychology, I travel, etc etc. But because I like it pretty rough, I’m mentally ill?! Open your bloody eyes, love. Not all people are cut from the same mould. And again: NOT ALL SUBMISSIVE FANTASIES INVOLVE CONSENT. The ultimate submission is to *not* give your consent. This certainly does not apply to most submissives, however, as consent is generally a large and important part of the BDSM lifestyle.
Again, I hope this doesn’t offend anyone who has been raped. I personally am NOT a rape fetishist, but I do know people who are and I can vouch for the fact they have perfectly normal relationships, children, jobs and that they do not need to be, more have been in therapy. I’m sorry to be so strongly opinionated on such a controversial topic, but the bottom line is, if you think that some people do not want to be raped, you are wrong. If you think that wanting pain and fear as part of sex means you are mentally ill, you are wrong. Now people who actually want to be raped are in a minority, and yes, some masochists or algolagnia (where you enjoy physical pain in a non-sexual context, i.e., you like having a scratch or bruise) do have mental health problems, but there isn’t a correlation.
Perhaps I’m protesting too much, but as I said before, I’m in a position to explain, so I’m trying to. Please feel free to email or message me, anyone, if you would like me to chat
Love E x
eden
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 02:52 pm: [report]
* Sorry, I got algolagnia wrong. It is in a sexual context, but its different from BDSM because its a physical motor reaction and not a psychological one. I always get that one mixed up, lol.
ClatieK
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 07:34 pm: [report]
Guess I’m one of the only ones who was most disturbed by his grabbing some random narcotic from the bathroom cabinet??
ElleChen
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 08:23 pm: [report]
Ok, I have a bit of a rape fantasy. I have shared it with my husband, and though he’s tried, he just can’t hold me down - he’s not much for being rough with me (awww) I was never abused, my husband and I have been together for 7 years, have a son, we are happy and healthy. But yes, sometimes I like for him to hold me down and “take me”, pull my hair, call me *bad words* hee hee. Sometimes I like to dominate, sometimes I want him to. I think sexual fantasies are healthy between two consenting adults.
alifiz
wrote on January 31 2009 @ 08:23 pm: [report]
I was raped as an 18 year old virgin my freshman year of college, and I have entertained rape fantasies since then. I am in a loving, committed relationship, and as alezsu said, I think it helps to reenact certain scenarios with someone I love and trust. While on the surface, it seems like a loss of control, even something like my boyfriend pinning my arms down while we have sex allows me to open up [so to speak] and let myself work through a difficult experience because I trust him. Control of the situation is out of my hands, but only because I have freely given it to the one I love.
Chelle
wrote on February 1 2009 @ 08:50 am: [report]
This particular fantasy makes no sense on the woman’s side of it. How is she going to enjoy “her” fantasy if she’s knocked out? Also, he’s an idiot for grabbing some random drug from the medicine cabinet.
One Big Voice
wrote on February 1 2009 @ 02:07 pm: [report]
@eden: No need to apologize, you have every right to your opinion, and you state your case quite well.
I should apologize myself for offending those who are into this stuff, I did come off as judgmental, sorry. This is a loaded subject—I was sexually abused/molested/raped, whatever you want to call it, when I was fifteen—and it’s hard for me to be emotionally neutral.
To clarify; it’s only my PERSONAL opinion that this type of fantasy is “sick”. One person’s crazy is another’s normal, and honestly, whatever people do to make themselves happy is fine with me, as long as no one is getting hurt. As John Lennon said, “whatever gets you through the night.”
I don’t think any amount of debating the issue is going to change how I feel about this, however. You asked, so yes, I do think you have a problem “because (you) like to be punched, slapped, and beaten during sex.” That is simply not normal behavior to ME. If a woman asks me to pull her hair, or spank her, or throw her on the floor and f*ck like dogs in heat, that is all good—but I draw the line at slapping, punching, and pretty much anything else that falls under the category of sado-masochism. It doesn’t appeal to me and I doubt it ever will. If that’s what works for you, then more power to you, but I think we’re going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on this, OK eden?
I should also mention that if there is a perfectly well-adjusted human with NO so-called “psychological problems”, I have yet to meet them. In my opinion, everyone has mental health issues at some point in their life. It is my hope that in the future everyone will have a therapist, and it will be just an accepted fact that everybody needs to go for a “mental tune-up” once in awhile, similar to having to see an MD periodically. Unfortunately, I don’t see it happening within my lifetime, as there is a powerfully negative stigma to mental illness in our current society. But hey, I could be wrong—maybe Obama will include that in his medicare plan. With hope, anything is possible, right?
eden
wrote on February 1 2009 @ 02:24 pm: [report]
@onebigvoice: I can agree to disagree on the rape fantasies, for sure. Its not my cup of tea, anyway. I’ll also agree with you on the fact that probably most people have some sort of ‘problem” (although the likelihood of any of those being related to anything sexual is another long conversation I can’t be arsed with.) But I still will take offence at the fact that you think I have a problem, especially because you admit to liking it a bit rough. How is a slap on the face or breasts different to a spanking or hair pulling?! Its just the level to which you take it to and how it is delivered. Our ‘activities,’ if you will, are very carefully negotiated and on a fairly tame level compared to a lot of other people. But anyway, I don’t particularly want to defend my mental health on a website, so lets be civil and leave it here.
One Big Voice
wrote on February 1 2009 @ 04:07 pm: [report]
@eden: I meant no offense or hostility. You asked for my opinion, so I told you what my boundaries are. Why am I OK with some stuff and not with others? The best answer I can give you is that it just feels “wrong” to me on a gut level. Call it conscience, I suppose. To explain further would be, to steal your phrase, “another long conversation I can’t be arsed with.” Again, though - if you are fine with it, then don’t let the fact that I don’t share your point of view bother you.
P.S. - I gather, from this statement: “most people have some sort of ‘problem’ (although the likelihood of any of those being related to anything sexual ...)” - that you’re not a big fan of Freud, AKA Mr. Everything-is-linked-to-sex
CuteCora
wrote on February 2 2009 @ 08:09 am: [report]
I found the Story very interesting… He mentions that they did not have sex for 3 years.. then all of a sudden his wife asks for this FANTASY..UMM anyone see anything wrong with that. I don’t care who you are ,NOBODY can with hold that long then all of a sudden want something sooo completely out of this world! Anyways… I think a fantasy no matter what it may be can really do no harm if the 2 people involved are Ok with what they are doin.. However I beleive a Fantasy such as this one must have some guidelines to ensure it can go smoothly.. they say this type of fantasy when people do it ends up destroying the relationship..so BE CAREFUL..
Art S.
wrote on February 2 2009 @ 09:52 am: [report]
I’ve been asked more than once to fulfill a rape or choking fantasy for women I’ve been with. I politely decline ... while I definitely believe in “to each his own” I don’t ever want to equate violence and women having seen my mom live with that horse crap with my Dad. Not cool under any circumstances, imo.
Now, a little rough, some serious spanking, c’mon! What a girl wants, what a girl needs…
SeattleMama
wrote on February 2 2009 @ 01:43 pm: [report]
I want to know why they haven’t had sex in 3 years! Even when our very fussy son was born, our dry spell was less then 6 months. What happened to precipitate the big chill?
Okay, debate about rape fantasy aside, I am with several other posters in that what disturbed me most about this scenario was that 1) that they hadn’t effed in 3 years and then out of the blue they’re going to do this scenario that without a strong connection is bound to cause more problems then it solves, and 2) that he’s just going to make a ‘suicide mix’ of pills from his bathroom cabinet to put her out with. Unless he’s a pharmacy tech, he has no business doing this! How is he going to explain this if she ends up in the hospital?
For all we know, his wife got a message from someone on Facebook that her husband was a rapey creep, and this request was her way of finding out if it was true… if so, it looks like she got her answer.
I wonder if he’ll be writing as enthusiastic an article about their subsequent divorce?
vanya
wrote on February 2 2009 @ 02:30 pm: [report]
Count me among the curious as to why they haven’t had sex for 3 years and the first sexual encounter initiated to end the dry spell is a drug & rape fantasy…
eden
wrote on February 2 2009 @ 04:54 pm: [report]
@onebigvoice: No, I’m not a fan of Freud! Not many English people who study Psych are. We like teh science, not teh… well, load of crap, to be honest. He had some interesting ideas, but again, another conversation I can’t be arsed with!
jazzyj
wrote on February 3 2009 @ 04:01 pm: [report]
@Eden, thanks for trying to explain the difference between the ‘fantasy rape’ and the ‘real rape’ but I don’t think I can understand the difference. I was raped as a fifteen year old virgin. Gang initiation. Girls were the ones who tricked me into going to a party where I thought we were just picking someone up to go to a movie. The girls cheered while it was happening.
When I reported it to police, the entire Catholic school community here in my hometown seemed to have an opinion about whether or not I wanted it to happen. No one denied that it happened, they denied that it was rape because I wanted it. I didn’t want it, and I said no and I tried to escape, but it didn’t work out like that.
However, my motivations were brought into question and people did not hesitate to harass me. Mostly strangers who knew the girls involved. The fact that girls were involved seemed to only validate the idea that I wanted it because the girl code should have been in effect, right? But it was a group of perverse and sick young women who were not concerned at all with the girl code. That’s why it was rape; if I had wanted it, it would not have been rape.
If I had been a willing participant, it would not have been rape. I suppose it just makes me sad that other people can even think about having a rape fantasy because I can’t even understand it and I know that is one of the ways I am different. Damaged or whatever. Baggage. And it kind of makes me resentful that I could have had a life that would allow me to flippantly refer to rape in a lighthearted manner the same way I would think about the fireman I soo badly want to pony when he checks my smoke detector or the cop I would who I would really like to play with his baton.
It scares me too for other people who are going to be raped in the future by people who think they want it to happen. Rapists are the moronic douche bags you referred to. That’s why they rape, and when they do it, often they think its a secret pleasure for the woman. Your mouth is saying no but your body is saying yes kind of mentality.
And I guess I’m jealous that this is one more way that I’m a freak. What is sad is that I am not in a small minority because soooo many women experience rape and find they are different now too. One third of women are raped in the US I think. I don’t mean to judge, and I know that there are women that have this fantasy - I read Secret Garden when I was very young and discovered the fantasy so many women seem to have. It just unsettles me and makes me nervous. But, that is my problem and I probably shouldn’t have even read this article because I am the bag lady when it comes to baggage on this issue.
SeattleMama
wrote on February 4 2009 @ 12:50 pm: [report]
Jazzy (((hug))) you’re not a freak, what you describe sounds terrifying- not only were you violated by the perps, but you were betrayed by girls you thought were friends (personally, I had a date-rape averted because my GF had my back and came to find me- that’s the way it’s supposed to work) as well as your community. I think your response to this topic makes perfect sense- and does NOT make you judge-y or weird.
Some people enjoy a little power play in their sex- I guess rape fantasies would be an extension of that. The trick is though, most of these fantasies DO center on the woman being in control (another reason the original article rang false to me, if she’s drugged she has NO control)- she picks the man, the time, the level of coercion used, etc… definitely NOTHING like a real rape.
Really, there’s plenty about other people’s sexuality that I will never get, either- it doesn’t make mean I’m damaged. You say that you’re attracted to firefighters and policemen- sounds like guys who are heroic and make you feel safe are turn-ons to you. That sounds perfectly normal to me! Of course, I have problems with authority figures, so I’m the only chick on the planet who doesn’t have THAT fantasy LOL!
I personally think the best thing we can do to prevent rape is to raise our sons to have respect for women, and to give them strong male role models who treat women with respect- if a man has no moral framework to base his decisions, he’s more likely to act w/o thought to who it will affect. Any scumbag who would use another woman’s fantasy/erotica as justification for violating someone is a sack of sh*t who is looking to blame anything else for his own evil choices.
As an aside, I read recently that since online porn became more prevalent that rape stats have actually gone down? Something about having an outlet reducing more impulsive sex crimes…
One Big Voice
wrote on February 4 2009 @ 04:23 pm: [report]
@jazzyj: SeattleMama is right, you are not a freak - because you did nothing wrong. You were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
I used to feel this way as well, and thought that “nobody would want me” because of my so-called emotional baggage. Imagine if you will, a perfectly healthy twenty year old guy basically giving up hope of EVER being in a relationship. Then my therapist got me to read a book by David Burns, called “The Feeling Good Handbook” (here’s the blurb from his website: “Dr. Burns shows how you can use cognitive therapy to overcome a wide variety of mood problems (such as depression, frustration, panic, chronic worry and phobias), and personal relationships problems (such as marital conflict or difficulties at work).”
Not everything in it was useful for me, but I found it really helpful in dealing with my low self esteem.
@eden: Yeah, ol’ Siggy was great in some ways, a pioneer of psychology and all, but some of his ideas make no sense! My favorite example of this: In one of my sociology classes, the instructor quoted Freud as saying “religion is a crutch for the weak minded.” One of the students raised her hand and asked, “... but wasn’t Freud a cocaine addict?” The teacher replied that yes, he was. She continued: “So, how is cocaine addiction not a ‘crutch’? Isn’t that hypocritical?”
“Absolutely”, was the response.
@Amelia: (last but not least) Judging by all the comments, you did good with your choice of topic. Kudos!
NightShade1387
wrote on February 5 2009 @ 12:20 am: [report]
The only concerning part of that story is how he so casually feeds her a handful of pills of which identity he isn’t even sure of…
I rifle through the medicine cabinet and find a stash of giant pink pills — some sort of narcotic from the dentist — and throw a small handful into the coffee grinder.
...he could have killed her.
There is, however, nothing wrong with acting out rape fantasies—so long as they are done safe, sane, and consensually. I’m female and I’ve been doing it for years. The curiosity started when I was young. No, I’m not damaged; No, I didn’t have a warped childhood; and, no, it’s not some deranged cry for help. ...just some good ol’, clean, kinky fun.
Dmun
wrote on February 5 2009 @ 04:59 pm: [report]
God, this post reminds me just how much I hate the word “normal”—seeing someone say “normal to ME” is such a joke, considering the very definition of the word in question.
It is not “normal” to have rape fantasies. Not to society. It is, however, neither deranged nor wrong.
It is simply “different.” Is that so difficult to comprehend? “Different?”
There’s a saying in the kink community: “My kink isn’t your kink but yours is okay too.” Live by it, people.
By the way, the wife did have control—she requested an action he would not have taken on his own, she dictated circumstances and he was left to follow through. And he did.
She choose the partner and she choose the method. It’s just a game. A rather extreme game (playing with potentially lethal narcotics? Jesus….), but a game none the less.
Stop being a bunch of squares.
BeckyMR
wrote on February 7 2009 @ 02:17 pm: [report]
I have rape fantasies. I’m not ashamed of it. They’re what arouse me more than anything else, and this was not a choice for me. I can’t pretend that other things are as arousing, and I see no need to. For someone to assume that because I enjoy these fantasies, I must be ok with myself or other women being raped is a logical jump I fail to comprehend. Why would I assume that other women would enjoy what I enjoy? Maybe for the same reason that you’re assuming I’m mentally damaged because my fantasies are different than yours. There is a big difference between a person who is perfectly content with simply fantasizing/roleplaying, and a person who desires to genuinely realize their fantasies. If I or most other rape fantasists “flippantly refer to rape,” I’m in fact referring to thoughts in my mind, while you’re projecting that I’m referring to an ACTUAL rape.
What I find creepy about this man’s essay is his claim that it’s his wife’s fantasy, while he himself slides effortlessly into the role of rapist, right down to all the nitty gritty details. Maybe it’s his attempt to show off what a good, detail-oriented actor he can be. However, the apparent lack of thought toward why he could find it so easy to imagine himself in this role is problematic. If he does have rape fantasies, fine, but at least admit it. I’ve attempted to get my boyfriend on board for role playing rape scenarios before, but his contribution usually consists of holding my arms down - not very hard - and not for very long, before moving straight back to regular sex. Which is fine, if he’s not into it. But my point is that, when requested to participate, my BF didn’t suddenly launch into a huge plan of having an “identity” and ordering medicines and special supplies. His claim of ambivalence (yep, just turnin’ the old wifey’s crank, as duty requires) rings false.
BeckyMR
wrote on February 7 2009 @ 02:20 pm: [report]
And yeah, the drugs part jumped right off the page. Random dentist pills? For realsies?
aliha
wrote on March 6 2009 @ 05:09 am: [report]
The initial question is “his rape fantasy or hers.” I don’t think that many men are willing to do the rape fantasy roll play. I believe however that all men would be willing to take what they want. But since the public stigma is that rapists are evil. That rape is bad keeps men from admitting even to themselves that they would actually rape. Instead this comes out in a different presentation one more acceptable by society standards. Come on baby… Why not… Please… Or just doesn’t put his hands down. Continues to touch you after you give him every excuse why you don’t want to. Now talking the woman into doing what she doesn’t want to do. That’s not rape. Or is it. We’ve all been there. I know I have. I also know that when it happens I feel like I’ve been raped. Just a little bit but raped none the less. Some women can stick to their guns. Some women are more easily victimized. I was talking to a Navy recruiting officer when I was 21 and he told me something that scared the snot out of me. He told me that he could tell that I was a victim. He said that he could in affect smell it on me and that all men could, that it’s just scientific, the predator could tell who the easier prey was. I was an easier target than other women. I had an aha moment from that conversation and its true if I don’t pursue sex then I am the victim. From then on I worked on being the pursuer. I have mastered that skill but I also know that if put in the wrong situation, I would again become the victim… So in my opinion the answer to the question is all men have a rape fantasy. This wife just gave her husband permission to do it, allowing him to act out his innate nature.
One Big Voice
wrote on March 6 2009 @ 02:09 pm: [report]
All men do not have rape fantasies. Just because you have had bad experiences with men doesn’t mean they are all bad.
I am a man, and after my own experience as a teen being molested, I would never force a woman to do ANYTHING. I have zero respect for guys who coerce women into doing stuff they clearly are not comfortable with. To me, no means no, end of story.
My personal definition of rape is: sexual activity where one participant is unwilling, or in the case of date-rape drugging etc, one person is impaired or unconcious.
By the way, that Navy recruiter sounds like a real piece of work. I wouldn’t believe anything that guy told you if I were you.