Is Ego-itis Really That Bad?
Posted by: Ami Angelowicz
Filed in:
relationships
8:20AM, Tuesday September 15th 2009
I just finished reading yet another article about women and our ever-expanding egos. According to a new study by leading psychologists, we women are more egocentric and narcissistic than ever before. The symptoms of this dastardly “ego-itis”? Huge expectations of ourselves and others, a belief that we are the center of the universe, a deluded sense of our own fabulousness, trouble accepting criticism, and difficulty extending empathy. In fact we are 67 percent more narcissistic in the last two decades. Hmmm … I wonder if that has anything to do with big bad women’s lib?
Naturally, the article doesn’t spend much time talking about how these traits may serve us in our careers or personal lives. Rather, it looks at how this shift in the dating sphere is making things difficult … especially for men!
A 40-year-old man (who was not brave enough to share his real name) interviewed for the article says of his recent online dates:
“You sensed that they absolutely worshiped themselves, though none of them was drop-dead gorgeous or had amazing personalities, jobs or anything else to set them apart and elevate themselves into some superior position. I also thought it was quite telling that none of them had ever been married, engaged or had recently—or perhaps ever—been in a long-term relationship. I got the feeling that these women were living in a ‘Sex And The City’-inspired fantasy world. I also sensed that nobody would ever be good enough for them.”
Boo hoo, dude. I’d place money on the fact that he was not the cat’s pajamas either. I’m sorry, but does anyone else think this is a bunch of crap? Why are women being criticized for putting themselves first and not settling for relationships they don’t want? I can hear you haters screaming that I have my very own case of “ego-itis.” But really, think about it. What’s wrong with me liking myself or thinking that I’ve got great things to offer the world? If I don’t, who is going to? What’s wrong with me having expectations of others and myself? I want to be the best person that I can be and at the very least I expect that others might be striving for the same. And so what if I am the center of my universe? I don’t imagine that things will be that way forever, but for now, that’s how I choose it. Hasn’t it always been that way for men? Having a healthy ego does not make me an unkind or uncaring person. Nor does it make me selfish or superficial. So what if I have a case of “ego-itis”? It certainly isn’t hurting anyone. My theory: Maybe it’s not that women are becoming more egotistical; maybe it’s just that men are becoming bigger wimps. [Daily Mail]
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Riley
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 07:35 am: [report]
Eh, everyone should value themselves. There is a line though, for both genders, between valuing yourself and being completely engrossed in yourself.
I don’t like to be around someone that thinks everything they do is great and they are so much better than anyone else. Everyone screws up and everyone has some terrible ideas.
I can’t say I know more than one or two women like this, same for guys. Generally, I try to stay away from both types.
tigerstripe
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 07:37 am: [report]
It’s great for people to like themselves, but there are definitely some people of both genders who like themselves too much. It’s a fine line.
Curvyt
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:09 am: [report]
There is nothing wrong with liking yourself or thinking you deserve the best. Thats what self esteem is. But there is a big difference between having good self esteem and being a full fledged narcissist. I think this man who wrote this book is confusing the two.
_jsw_
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:12 am: [report]
There is a difference between confidence and entitlement, and also a difference between good self-esteem and narcissism. There have always been the jackass men who think they’re God’s gift to women but who, really, aren’t. And there are a growing number of women who are the equivalent. I think our whole society is moving towards an expectation that more and more things are due them, and women just have gone farther and have caught up with men.
_jsw_
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:21 am: [report]
@Curvyt: The “man who wrote this book” is actually a team of two people: Jean M. Twenge, Ph.D., an associate professor of psychology at San Diego State University, and W. Keith Campbell, an Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Georgia. They seem reasonably well qualified. The linked article was written by a woman, not a man, for what it’s worth. I don’t think any of them are confusing good self esteem with being a narcissist. Did you even read the article?
*sam*
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:45 am: [report]
My two cents:
The article and the study are not one-in-the-same. I haven’t read the article (yet) but I am willing to take a bet that the article fails to mention any of the boring scientific aspects of the actual study(ies) and really only harps on the discussion section (which is all speculation from the researchers’ standpoints) and even then only takes the “more egotistical than ever before” bit and runs with it. My personal guess is that women, on the whole, probably are more “egotistical” than before, but that this isn’t necessarily such a bad thing. Think about it, we’re living in a time where for once, putting yourself first is seen as an OK thing to do. Before the women’s lib movement, women were taught to be subservient and always put the needs of others before our own, even if that meant giving up on our hopes and dreams to have dinner on the table by 5pm and be willing to take a smack to the face if we dared to stand up for ourselves. So yes, it makes perfect sense that we’re more egotistical than before. But like the author pointed out, men have been this way a lot longer than we have, and it’s really that we’re just beginning to catch up. If you really think about it, part of this argument goes back to the ‘does not wanting kids make me a bad person’ argument. It’s finally becoming socially acceptable for women to admit, loudly and proudly, that they don’t want children. Yet, there are still other women (and men) out there that will berate these women for being selfish and yes, “egotistical.” But when has this argument ever affected men? It’s like Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady—he was as egotistical as they come in this regard, a self-proclaimed confirmed old bachelor that had an air of arrogance about him, yet, society never looked down upon him for that one bit. However, if a woman were to take that stance she gets berated for being selfish and egotistical and is told to “get over herself.” So really, I think this book is just pointing out how far we’ve come. And if the article wishes to highlight how difficult this may make dating certain men, then it seems blatantly obvious that instead of taking a step back to “get off our high horse,” we should really be looking for different men to date.
<off soapbox>
ootie
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:01 am: [report]
Maybe the guy got the idea that these women thought they were too good for anyone and self-absorbed because they weren’t into him and didn’t really wanna give someone they didn’t have chemistry with a chance. They might seem self-involved and like they don’t have “amazing personalities” because they don’t ask a lot of questions or really engage in the conversation because they don’t feel like feigning interest/sending mixed signals. If a woman knows what she wants, there isn’t really any point in trying to make connections with people she knows early on aren’t what she’s looking for. You run a big risk of meeting up with people who won’t be into you if you go the online dating route.
canadiancutie
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:23 am: [report]
I agree with sam wholeheartedly.
betty123
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:39 am: [report]
I feel that having a healthy ego does afford women many benefits in the workplace and other areas of our lives. However, I also feel that sometimes we don’t know how to turn it off and show the vulnerability that is necessary to form a real romantic bond with someone. So it isn’t necessarily that men are turned off by a woman who goes for what she wants, in fact they are probably turned on by it. But relationships are about vulnerability and compromise and wanting more for another person than you want for yourself. So, I can see how that could be frustrating to men that want to get into relationships with us and lead to problems in the dating world.
jeccabean
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:55 am: [report]
@sam: Hell yeah!
spatula
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 10:29 am: [report]
I just think it’s one of those things you dont really have to SAY to people, just because you feel that way. So you are a confident, fabulous, independent, kick-ass strong woman? Sweet. You don’t need to like, tell people that. IF it’s true, it should come across non-verbally. Otherwise it’s just bragging about how super-cool you are, which is very off-putting.
Kathls
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 10:46 am: [report]
@sam: bravo! I couldn’t have said it better. I’m so tired of hearing stories and studies about how women have turned into wicked bitches because they make themselves #1 on their list. It’s ridiculous that we are still classifying the SAME behavior differently for men and women.
My baby boomer mother does the same thing to me and my brother. We’ve both earned Masters and are relatively successful in life. My mom, however, holds me to standards right out of the 1950’s. When my brother bought a house as a single man, there was no problem or discussion, but now that I’ve been talking about buying a home for a few years (as a single woman) it’s been nothing but doom and gloom. Once I sign those mortgage papers it will be nothing but the apocalypse (maybe I should wait for 2012). But I think what she really wants is for me to wait for a husband. *throws hands in air*
When my brother decided he wanted to run around Europe on vacation there were no questions asked. I’m now planning a solo trip to Paris, and my mom has described it as “selfish” (that is, selfish because my family will have to worry about me).
I didn’t realize trying to live my life and make myself happy was an abhorrent thing to do. I’m sure that I’m not the only woman who’s ever experienced this, but I am dumbfounded as to why it still goes on. I’ve got news for people out there: you only have one life, so if you waste it by not making yourself happy or feeling unfulfilled, that’s your problem.
I’m not a ball-buster, I’m just as feminine as the next girl, I have manners, self - doubts, dreams, you name it. But I’m not going to sit on my hands and let life miserably pass me by. I also don’t go around thinking the sun rises and sets around me.
But for the record, on probably 75%+ of guys online dating profiles, they say self-confidence is a huge turn on, and that lack of self esteem is an even bigger turn off. So maybe the men that were interviewed (for the article NOT the scientific study) have had a recent string of bad luck on meeting women who haven’t found the right balance of self esteem that men and society are expecting from them (not that women are expecting of themselves).
We have all hit those patches of ‘when it rains it pours losers’. In the last 3 to 4 months alone here are a few of the winners I’ve met at bars: a guy who spent most of the time talking about his prosthetic leg and wanted me to touch it, another one who after chatting me up was thrown out for shoving another guy’s head into the bar, and last but not, least, a drunken charmer who offered me a roofie for my beer. And yet I still haven’t given up on men ... go figure.
I thought this was a real gem of a quote from the article, “I have friends who are not so optimistic and it’s evident that encounters with these sort of women seriously erode their self-confidence, which is a real shame. There are a lot of genuine, decent guys out there who are getting a rough deal.” Hello! Almost everyone gets a raw deal in the dating world at some point in time. There have been plenty of fantastic women who have been passed over for years because they’re too short and fat, too tall and no boobs, plain face, mousy hair, etc, etc. What do you think happens to their self esteem?
Anyways, now that I’m all worked up into a tizzy I’m going to work on planning my trip to Paris.
LunaLena
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 11:03 am: [report]
I agree with spatula, if you have to tell people how wonderful you are, then you’re not as wonderful as you think.
@*sam* - Great analogy! Henry Higgins was definitely the personification of egotism. “Why can’t a woman be more like… ME???” ;D
BlueVibe
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 11:43 am: [report]
There is a major difference between having good self-esteem and thinking you are owed the world on a silver salver. This applies to men as well as women, although I suspect that society in general is more sensitive to it in women because men have gotten away with it much longer under the guise of being “confident.”
Mr. Anonymous may very well be right about these women. Of course, he’s not right about _all_ women, but then it sure seems he was only talking about a small sample, anyway.
I don’t think it helps that there is so much media attention on people whose major accomplishments are more basic biology than otherwise (the Gosselins, the Duggars, Octomom), and on examples of raving egotism-as-entertainment such as “bridezillas”. Yeah, we’re mocking them, but they’re getting attention and money.
retro chic
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 11:48 am: [report]
Uughh… hot labels. For me, the litmus test
for a real egoist vs narcissist vs good
self-esteem is how they process a compliment
or a call to action.
The latter will respond magnanimously.
majicksand
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 03:10 pm: [report]
I don’t have time to read the article just now, but there is, indeed, a difference between self-confidence and narcissism. I’ll be interested to see if the article has acurately (imo) judged said difference.
(This post is really a placemarker, so I can keep up until I’ve read the article.)
freepeople1986
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 03:12 pm: [report]
@ Bluevibe agreed on your last paragraph.
In other news:
I find that confidence, perhaps even a certain level of narcissism, eschews jealousy (applies to both sexes).
Jealousy, in turn, is one of the great evils of the world, and in my eyes has ruined more relationships than overconfidence.
Personally I like the fact that I’ve reached a certain level of confidence so that I do not have to compare/worry/#&@$%-talk to/about every other woman in the room.
Besides, everyone gets knocked off their high horse at some point. I think there’s a point, perhaps your late teens-mid 20s where everyone is rather self-absorbed. It’s good to get it out of the way.
Jenbug
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 03:17 pm: [report]
Women + ego-itis - bi*chiness = WIN
Curvyt
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 03:48 pm: [report]
@_jsw_
guess it didn’t read it well enough. Thanks for clearing things up for me!
bearclover
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 03:55 pm: [report]
This is a subject that hits close to home for me. When I was young, I was told I couldn’t enroll in woodshop class in the public high school I attended because I was a girl - in California - in 1979. That might seem like a long time ago, but it was well after the women’s lib movement.
By the time I was 19, I was driving 18-wheel double-belly dumps. More often than not when I applied for a job, the person in charge could only see me as a “sweet thang”. I couldn’t wait to leave that hicktown.
In my mid-thirties I decided to get a pantyhose job. I got a degree in IT and found that even in educated, urban settings, sexism thrived.
I’m 44 now and can do most anything from build a wireless network to dress a deer. I believe I can do anything and I I don’t really see that as ego-itis, but more just having brains and backbone. Anybody, man or woman, can do anything if they choose to and it’s got nothing to do with arrogance.
Most of the time I’ve found it all depends on perspective of the person putting the label on me. Don’t be a hater just ‘cause I’m more of a man than you! ;-p
bearclover
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 03:59 pm: [report]
@Kathls: Sing it, Sister! I ‘aint nothin’ but road rash right now!
_jsw_
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 04:06 pm: [report]
@Curvyt: Actually, I owe you the apology. I was in a foul mood for reasons unrelated to anything on this site, and I was snippy. There was no good justification for my tone, and I’m sorry.
Lavanderism
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 05:57 pm: [report]
HA.
Wimps.
I doubt it’s ego-itis. Women are simply deciding to be our own selves. We’ve spent the past centuries as silent and docile and nearly invisible, and now men feel like we’re encroaching upon their already established rule.
Boo hoo, bitches.
LilMissSunshine
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 06:50 pm: [report]
@Kathls I think you missed the “one” by walking away from the drunken charmer. He was such a gentleman to offer you a ruffie with your beer instead of just slipping you one.
Kathls
wrote on September 16 2009 @ 09:42 am: [report]
@lilmisssunshine: *slaps hand to forehead*
You’re so right! God I hope I haven’t blown my chance at true happiness and limp, unconscious lovin’. Maybe if I go back this weekend he’ll be there, ruffie, in hand.
Thank you for pointing out my rash actions to pass up a true gentleman. Any other tool really would have just slipped me one. Maybe I need to re-evaluate my dating standards. le sigh ...
SummertimeFirefly
wrote on September 16 2009 @ 10:08 am: [report]
There is a fine line between healthy self-esteem and ego. Self-esteem is much harder to come by than ego, which is often constructed as a defense mechanism when self-esteem is lacking. So for women, should we be working to build up a healthy sense of self instead creating false illusions of grandeur that never serve anyone well? Especially because we live in a society that makes it so so difficult for women (or anyone) to genuinely love yourselves and not just for what we do, who we’re with, what we wear, or how we look, etc…
oppositeofzen
wrote on September 16 2009 @ 10:42 am: [report]
First, does anyone know where to find the paper about this study? If I have learned one thing from academia, it’s that very rarely does the media use the real facts about a study.
Maybe the increase in what is seen as “ego” and “narcissism” is due to the fact that more women are earning professional degrees and PhDs than did 30-40 yrs ago. I know that when I have go defend my thesis in a few weeks, I’m going to have to have enough self esteem to show that I known what I’m talking about. And if that means I have ego-itis and I’m narcissistic, then I am guilty as charged.
majicksand
wrote on September 16 2009 @ 11:26 am: [report]
Ok, so I finally got a chance to read the article. The women quoted went waaayyy beyond self-confident. The elitist, materialistic, “diva” behaviors highlighted definitely qualify as narcissicism. As far as I’m concerned a person (male or female) can be, or believe themselves to be, as beautiful, intelligent, and successful as they like. If that belief is not grounded in reality and tempered by humility, I have no use for that person.
If you have to pound it into my head how great you are, you’re obviously not sure you believe it yourself.