How To Really Meet A Woman

Dmun
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 10:18 am: [report]

Here’s the thing, writer girl—- and I’m going to say writer girl because you give yourself away with the “just say hello, buy her a drink” #&@$%.

You are probably a nice and normal person—who doesn’t examine herself in the dating scene.

If you did, you’d admit that youve known girls—the prettiest girls, the most social girls—who play “which loser is going to buy us the most drinks” game. Just like you’ve known #&@$% dudes who are swaggering pricks and lay those hot chicks.

That’s the reality. The better looking you are, the harder you are to approach—simply because you’re approached alot. Which means you know game, yes—and you know you’ll be hit on in all types of situations.

Which leads to small-time guys trying to find ways to get over.

The fact that you threw in the shame-banging thing shows you’re bias pretty hard. Ever flirt with a guy by picking on him?

BOOM. You’ve negged him, you horrible, horrible person. The “experts” all say you never play such a game with a girl with low self-esteem. She’ll break and you’ll be a douche.

That’s the point. These boys are trying to teach losers how to big-game hunt with the jocks who slapped them around in high school.

You want a nice, normal girl—go to OKCupid. Plenty of them there. Often cute, too. But these programs are for a whole other thing.

slip
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:01 am: [report]

There’s a flaw in your reasoning, Annika. What women say they want and what they actually respond to are rarely the same. These guys have learned the difference, and the stuff they teach works like magic. Oddly, the smarter a woman is, the better it works. I don’t go to bars, so I’m no expert on bar game, but in cafes, bookstores and at social events, it’s incredibly effective.

Just a few weeks ago, I used a very slight variation of the line you dismiss as useless/creepy (“I’ve noticed you across the room a number of times tonight.”) to start a conversation with and ultimately seduce an absolutely captivating woman. We’re now in the back-and-forth of the first steps of a relationship, which was always my goal.

It’s about having options.

Slip

_jsw_
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:14 am: [report]

@Dmun: I think they’re simply trying to take money from guys who think the class will help them. If the classes can do anything for them, I suppose it’s that they could give them confidence, which is appealing. But the approaches and lines they convey aren’t going to get some average-to-below-average guy to have sex with some hot woman, unless that hot woman is desperate or unusually receptive to #&@$%.

In the end, it’s all apparently oriented toward getting laid, because I can’t see how anyone a guy would “get” using these techniques would be appealing past the first encounter. And if, as a guy, you’re gonna drop several grand to find out how to have sex with gullible and/or stupid women with hot bodies, spend the money instead and fly to Nevada. You’re guaranteed to be able to buy sex there.

peacock
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:16 am: [report]

I’m a girl. I think its safe to say that I know within like 30 seconds of meeting you if I’m going to be interested or not.  And by 30 seconds I mean before you open your mouth.  And I think 90% of the time no matter what you say you’re not going to change my mind if the answer was already “No”. The whole “what line to use” etc I think is really not that important, you just need to initiate conversation.  .

bumbler
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:18 am: [report]

Big game hunt?  Pathetic. 

Tip #1:  If you use terms like Big Game Hunt you are instantly undateable.  Go work on being a human being first.

SomeGuy84
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:25 am: [report]

I’ve never been to a seminar, but I’ve read some of the books by those guys, and I don’t think you went with an open mind.  Much of what I’ve taken away from the books is how to initiate a conversation without the lame ‘can I buy you a drink,’ which I have found is a terrible way to start a conversation.  It just helps men be more confident in approaching women.  What’s wrong with that?

Dmun
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:48 am: [report]

@ _JSW_ Picture a world, if you will, of high school losers, geeks and social retards who never had anyone to teach them the basics of human interaction with normal, confident and fun-loving people. They go out there and they talk to girls about World of Warcraft, or they do the “I’m an expert” BS and tell girls all about how much they know about Beetles and Quantum Physics while the poor target yawns and wants to be anywhere else.

Or they just say, “so… uhmm… what do you do?” and spends all night searching for topics to talk about.

When these guys are through and watch some confident fella with good conversational skills sweep the girl off her feet, do you know what they think?

They think, “Girls are just empty and shallow and all they want is money and cars and I can never, ever compete with these rich guys.”

Let’s call this, the 80s Movie Cliche Syndrome and it is VERY real. And it makes these guys the kind of (if they ever get a girl) boyfriend that causes nightmares. They are the resentful. They are the the ones who secretly think all women are evil sluts. They are Skipper from Season one of Sex and The City.

These PUA guys? They’re definitely making money. Too much money, all things considered. But that doesn’t make them wrong.

They’re teaching self-help courses for boys, using the only incentive we ever needed: sex.

Lessons you learn from these guys: If you want to stay in a relationship, be someone who gives value to others (by being awesome), not take value (by having a hot girl to validate your insecurities). Girls aren’t materialistic but they are more socially savvy and hierarchal than most men—you want to get the girl, you must show you aren’t afraid to lose her, that you don’t need her (or anyone specific) but that her time spent with you is the best time she’ll get, compared to most anyone else around you. And lesson one, of course: girls like sex just as much as guys, you just have to make them comfortable first—as society tells them that sex is bad. Is that so terrible?

Most of all, they try to teach you to throw away your fear of rejection and hurt, never give up and have fun even in the face of the horrifying social reality that is the dating scene.

Remember: if you need a course in getting laid, you’re starting off behind the curve. These guys are explaining things in a way a GUY SUCH AS THEY would understand: with diagrams and charts.

I’ve known girls, btw, who read the game, used the techniques and found small results. If you did anything more than a shallow reading of some of these techniques (remember, there are different schools of thought to this), you’d see there’s value there.

Dmun
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:49 am: [report]

@ bumbler I do recall an article here about date nick-names. So a girl’s allow to call a guy by some nickname but a guy can’t call dating “big game hunting?”

Grow some thicker skin.

emflow
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:50 am: [report]

@ bumbler - Yeah, you kinda summed up the problem with these seminars.

@ Slip - That line (“Keep seeing you from across the room”) is okay, as long as you sound sincere. Its the “staring” and “just wondering if there was more there than meets the eye” that headed off into creepy-ville.

It seems like (based on the Pick-Up Artist show) the lessons just tend to go one (or more) step too far and then they’re past “ways to increase your confidence and start conversation” and into “game hunting” territory.

Dmun
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:51 am: [report]

Oh and when girls aren’t around? Boys are more vulgar than “big game hunting.” Even the nice ones. I’d know better than you would. So you can go ahead and write off 90% of the male American population. The other 10% is probably undatable by virtue of being punks-asses.

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:53 am: [report]

There’s no end to the number of creeps in this world and these pick-up methods are adding more.  I have read a good deal about them and the guys who use them and it seems that it’s not so much about getting the girl as it is about being able to play her, and even being able to revenge yourself upon her (and indeed as many as possible) for every girl who rejected, wronged, or played them before.

Who “negs” on someone to get a date?  Why would you say something cruel to throw someone off guard and get into their pants?  What’s that?  Huh?  Oh, right, you don’t are about the PERSON, you care about the pussy in the panties.  Whoops.  If you did, you wouldn’t spend hours trolling for just any woman who will respond to your pathetic lines and instead would make friends and be a real man like real men who get dates all the time.

I suppose there’s something for everyone but the pick-up groups, from everything I have read about them (I do a lot of research.  I’m a writer.) and my experiences with guys who have used those techniques (Really, stranger guy?  You’re going to just come on to X number of girls a night/week, regardless of your attraction to them or what kind of person you or they might be?  Oh yeah that makes me want you.) and the sad sad truly sad parade of ready-to-use stupid stories and pickup lines (We can tell you’ve been practicing, stupid.) are like locker room floors: gathering places for the low and the disgusting, stuff you wouldn’t even want to touch your bare skin.  Wait, did I just throw out a neg?  I was just kidding, wanna go on a date?

*snort*

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 11:58 am: [report]

@Dmun - “Girls aren’t materialistic but they are more socially savvy and hierarchal than most men—you want to get the girl, you must show you aren’t afraid to lose her, that you don’t need her (or anyone specific) but that her time spent with you is the best time she’ll get, compared to most anyone else around you.”

Wow.  That’s so disgusting I threw up in my mouth a little bit.  “I’m not scared to let you go but you’ll never have better”?  That doesn’t sound like the timid and tragic whining of a little boy whose mommy didn’t pay enough attention.  That is REAL sour grapes.

GO AHEAD AND LEAVE ME I DON’T CARE BUT YOU WILL NEVER FIND ANYONE AS AWESOME AS ME!

Yeah, still pathetic.

Dmun
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 12:09 pm: [report]

@ Alphabete Way to put words in my mouth. “I’m not scared to let you go”—yes—“You’ll never have better” Not so much. But if you go into a room and you think: “Yeah… I’m the good time here. I’m smart, I’ve got a great personality and I’m not here to do anything to make your life more interesting and the rest of these guys? Not so much.”?

You’re not timid. You’re ready. You’ve shed yourself of the idea that there’s only one girl for you—there’s plenty. And ladies? There’s plenty of guys too.

You seem to be assuming I’m speaking of relationships here- I’m not. If you go to a bar and some chick disses you and you have any other reaction than “your loss” You are a LOSER. And that goes for you too, Alphaebete. Some guy tosses your number and you DON’T think, “You just threw out an awesome time, buddy” you should eat icecream alone in your apartment.

In a relationship, it’s more complicated but it still comes down to two equals who aren’t needy for the other. If the guy is there thinking, “You can’t leave me, I’ll be everything to you” and working to win her over? He’s probably already lost.

Meanwhile theres all these guys with a “she’s the one, the only one” mentality. They wait for this one special chick, they pine for her, they think if they become the best friend the girl will see how awesome they are and BOOM! Happily ever after.

#&@$%.

Ladies, this goes for you too: You don’t have one particular soul mate. Investing too much into one guy you just met? Dumb move. Going on a third date and making wedding plans? Dumb move. That’s just reality.

Plenty of fish in the sea—so why fear losing a single fish? If she’s worth fighting for, yeah—tug the line and try reeling her back. But jumping into the lake? Uhmm… no.

bumbler
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 12:16 pm: [report]

@Dmun Guess what girls are people.  There are immature shallow ones just like there are immature shallow guys.  Using the whole “Girls did it first” argument doesn’t help your case at all.  Sorry its not a matter of the thickness of my skin its a matter of comparing women to animals being hunted.  Shocker for men, women are looking for a man they are compatible with, who shares their interests, who they enjoy spending time with and who they are sexually attracted to.  Trust me, I’ve been chased by a number of guys when I was single and every guy who tried to “bag me” or play games with me lost.  Not a single one of these tips has ever or will ever work on me.  Sorry, the majority of us hot or not aren’t looking for the #&@$% caveman routine.

Chebs
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 12:24 pm: [report]

But but but I do have a secret code!  Any guy worth my time would know the rest: ^^

@ Alphabete - re: “You’re going to just come on to X number of girls a night/week, regardless of your attraction to them or what kind of person you or they might be?”  His name escapes me, but the big C&F;guy came to my college a few years ago and gave a talk.  After that, I got hit on non-stop for about a month.  WHILE I WAS WEARING AN ENGAGEMENT RING.  I understand part of the point of these things is to get guys talking to girls, and eventually to ones they want to date, but seriously?  Classy men, they are not.

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 12:30 pm: [report]

Dear Chebs,

I’m not a guy but based on what I’ve been reading this is high time to get bi.

^^vv<><>ba

-bete

Wait.  Uh, I don’t need you but you’ll never have better!  Or something.  NEGNEGNEG

Dmun
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 12:34 pm: [report]

@ bumbler I’ll tell you a story. I had a major realization about women when I was hanging with a friend in another city than the one I live in—this is important, as I felt less hang-ups, as if I were on vacation and anything, therefore, was okay.

I was in a bar, drinking it up, having a great time with friends and started talking to a couple of beautiful women near me. These were model-level girls, girls that would have intimidated me were it not for the fact that I didn’t care—this wasn’t my city anyway and I had no pre-conceptions.

So I talked to these girls about POLITICS—the great no no of bars and dating! Worse, one of them had an opinion that I outright picked at—and I started playfully poking fun at her, too (that’s negging, btw). Slowly but surely, she’s eventually sitting next to me (while her equally hot friend keeps trying to break into the conversation) and we’re arguing pretty intensely, but I’m never really angry or serious—I’m just being me, with no fear of losing the conversation or offending. I’m not afraid to touch her arm or thigh—it’s natural. I am being in the moment. I am being, dare I say it, confident for one of the first times in my life.

When my friends are ready to go, the girl hands me her number and positively gushes about this being one of most interesting nights she’s had out and how I should call her.

I go back to being a loser, of course, because I’m not ready to call a girl that hot yet—I’m still, at that time, amazed it all happened in the first place.

But it was then that I realized these techniques weren’t off. The canned-game, the lines, they werent me—but there were truths there nonetheless.

So I started reading and I got a friend who had more to read and in 2 years, I am a very different person than I was before. A person I honestly like more. A guy who chooses to be with someone instead of waiting to be chosen or wishing for some unavailable beauty, afraid to act.

I’ve got a ways to go to be the person I want to be (who does not necessarily screw every girl in sight, btw), but it was the self-help aspect of the game that changed me for the better.

And friends who knew me then and now (mostly women)? They know the difference.

That’s my story and I’m done.

GreenAura
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 12:39 pm: [report]

How about this fellas:  Just be your damn self. If she likes you, guess what?? She’ll show it.  If she doesn’t like you, she’ll make it clear.  And if she doesn’t like you, who cares??? Some other female will.  And if she is just using you to buy her drinks, it will probably become apparent after the 2nd drink.  But just be who you are, so that a female can get to know the REAL you, and not some weird image conjured up by people who tell you what you SHOULD be like.  My advise if you are looking for love (and not just sex): STOP THINKING ABOUT GETTING INTO HER PANTS SO MUCH AND BE MORE RECEPTIVE TO THE SIGNALS SHE IS GIVING YOU.

@ Dmun: maybe guys that get nervous and start talking about “World of Warcraft” should not be looking in a bar for a nice girl to take home.  It’s not that nice girls don’t go to bars, but no one is there to talk about video games.  Those guys should go to places where they are sure to find more compatible women.

Queen Frostine
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 12:52 pm: [report]

“I’m growing a mustache for Charity! Do you like it?”

This is awesome. Any guy who can actually walk up and say that to me, will make me fall off the barstool laughing (in a good way). I’d give him a chance for sure, assuming he’s attractive.

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:02 pm: [report]

@Queen Frostine: Your avatar is gorgeous.

@GreenAura: Thank you.  While it may not be the usual for girls, I play World of Warcraft and while I don’t play every day (or even every week) I got nothing against a guy who wants to discuss it.  Same with most other video games.  I wouldn’t want to base a relationship around it but I and many other geek ladies I know wouldn’t diss a guy for playing WoW, or some other videogame, or even D&D;. 

Seems like a recipe for disaster if a guy has some sort of interests but keeps them quiet in order to meet a girl.  What happens when they’re together and they find they are incompatible?  Then again I guess these pick-up artists aren’t really trying to find a mate, just a bed-partner and another notch on the ol’ counting stick.

Dmun
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:03 pm: [report]

@Greenaura are you suggesting that nerds should stay in their place? That the social world, which is bars for a lot of dating, is barred to them and they should be happy with that? “Compatible women” is to say, “stay a loser and find another loser.”

I’d rather, “if you want a high status girlfriend, become a high status male.” Change for the better.

GreenAura
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:11 pm: [report]

@Dmun: why are you attributing people that play video games to losers?  Maybe video games is where their interest lies.  Who cares?? All I am saying is that the bar isn’t exactly the place to find a woman compatible to you if you are a more introverted type. And your “change for the better” comment is actually quite offensive.  So, because you are a guy that frequents bars and uses “smooth” pick up lines to try and bed random women, you are better than a guy who is more quite and reserved?  What is this high status thing and who are you to judge?? That’s more of a “loser” quality than anything else! Give me Dungeon’s and Dragons any day of the crap your putting out there.

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:11 pm: [report]

@Dmun: So are YOU suggesting that a guy or a girl who is into video games or science or something that is considered nerdy is a loser?  So now you have insulted guys AND girls who are not using or responding to pickup games.  What if you met a girl who was hot for Halo?  Low-status, huh?  She should be more interested in her hair and nails!

For the record, being a geek, I know plenty of geeks who are getting some and then getting some more.  Seems only the “better-thans” are playing the pickup game so that they can put down every girl who might legitimately not be interested in them while scooping up as much action as they can to validate the money, time, and brain cells they spent trolling bars like a creep.

bumbler
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:15 pm: [report]

There is nothing wrong with confidence it is attractive but this is where you’re getting it wrong: confidence comes from maturity.  If you’re referring to women as animals and working so hard to be confident a woman will see through it in an instant and then it will just be another game.  Try actually trying to get to know her as a person, and be confident in yourself.  She does exist for reasons other than allowing men into her panties.

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:17 pm: [report]

@bumbler: Only high-status girls exist for allowing men into their panties.  The rest of the women are bitches and haters who don’t even deserve these high-status men that come onto them.  Check out some of these pickup artist message boards.  It’s a lesson in sadness.  Bring a hanky and some batteries because it’ll prolly scare you off men for a while.

pragmatryst
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:19 pm: [report]

@Dmun: “These PUA guys? They’re definitely making money. Too much money, all things considered.”

Sex is fine and all, but for $3,000 I could buy a Wii with all the bells and whistles, renew my Fangoria subscription for another three years, order a custom-built Iron Man costume for next year’s Comic-Con, and still have enough left over to drown my sorrows in an extra large Slurpee when the chick at the 7/11 rebuffs my advances for the umpteenth time.

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:25 pm: [report]

@Pragmatryst: Oh my gosh do you like black girls?  Tell me you’re anime-tolerant and know who Rob Bottin is and I’ll buy YOU a Slurpee!  (Is the Coke kind okay?)

That blurb did more to interest me than any guy at a bar throwing out negs and lines could ever do, regardless of smoothness.

Chebs
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:30 pm: [report]

@alphabete - I think I love you.  Unfortunately, your ring is in another castle.  Or I’m cheap and can’t afford one with a high enough ilvl. 

@bumbler - Your earth logic has no place among most of those men.  You will only confuse them and get called a loser/derogatory-term-towards-women-I-refuse-to-even-censor for your troubles.

ChoJinn
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:32 pm: [report]

Women revile such topics because it objectifies them, so the article’s misandry shouldn’t surprise (though it’s getting awfully tiring, ladies).

“its a matter of comparing women to animals being hunted.”

It’s an analogy.  A crude one, but there are similarities.  Get over yourself.

A guy should do whatever he needs to become confident and socially effective.  Some are born with it, others learn it through experience, others can learn from a book.  I would argue that if women weren’t so insecure, these “cave man” techniques would never, ever work.  But they incontrovertibly do (for some guys), and often.

I find it cute that women on this thread implore guys to “be themselves” when they would likely find those same guys unnacceptable, for whatever reason.  Trust me ladies, men don’t WANT to have to jump through hula hoops to get your attention/affection, and insisting that (some of them) don’t have to just reveals your address to be 123 Fantasy St, Imaginationland.

GreenAura
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:39 pm: [report]

@ ChoJinn: I think I’m just sick of the whole “pretend to be someone you’re not” schtick just to “win” the affection of someone else.  If you have to change yourself, then maybe you are going after the wrong woman.  Why are you going after her in the first place?  Just to sleep with her?? If thats the case, then you deserve what you get.  Tired of the blame game already. That goes for both sexes.

tattooed_redhead
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:39 pm: [report]

@ pragmatryst - tell me you love BSG, Firefly & cheesy vampire movies & I’m yours!!!!

bumbler
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:50 pm: [report]

What is with the get over it grow a thicker skin?  Do you guys really have no logical argument to back up your sexist expressions?  And you accuse us of misandry? 

By the way guys, what term would you use for a woman who sleeps around to boost her self esteem?  Just curious.

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 01:57 pm: [report]

@bumbler: I’m going to bet it isn’t high status.

slip
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:06 pm: [report]

@GreenAura, “Just be your damn self” gets a lot of men in trouble. A man who can only talk about computer games, who gets angry when a woman spurns him, who stalks a woman or any number of other creepy behaviors IS being himself when he does those things. He’s never learned to be comfortable around women to whom he’s attracted. When he finally gets a girlfriend, by definition she’ll be someone to whom he’s NOT attracted. He’ll use her and throw her away when they both deserve better.

Yes, pickup courses focus on bar game and sex. They’re in business and that’s their clients want to learn. But one of the first things they tell clients is to develop some interests that don’t repel women.

Once you’ve been around it a while, game isn’t just learning to get laid, it’s learning to be a better man so you have more options with women. The process is excruciating. For some the first goal might just be “not hating myself because I don’t know how to talk to women.” If you’ve never felt that pain, I suppose it’s easy to discount the self-awareness and courage it takes to begin. I’ve done it. I can promise you that it sucks.

Like a lot of guys, I started with sex as a goal. But when I realized how easy that was, I began to look for more. As I mentioned, those techniques led me to someone amazing just a few weeks ago. Had I never studied pickup, I’d have been afraid to talk to her. Fortunately, I realized somewhere along the line that “just being my damn self” was a real buzz killer. Pickup helped me see where I was failing, and how to deal with a lot of my inner issues. I like the man I am today a lot more than the man I was a few years go, and it seems that a remarkable number of women like the new me, too.

I guess that’s what really puzzles me about all of this. Why is it so threatening that men are learning to improve themselves? Don’t women try to improve themselves? Isn’t that the point of sites like The Frisky—to get better at handling the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune?

Slip

bumbler
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:16 pm: [report]

@alphabete surprising how we’re just filled with double standards in here right?

@slip there’s nothing wrong with a man trying to improve himself or trying to become more comfortable interacting with the opposite sex.  Those are both good things.  When a man objectifies women in his quest, sees them as different status levels to be bagged that’s where I start to have a problem.  When you’re valuing women solely for their appearance and collecting them like Pokemon cards to “win” amongst your friends or get back at jocks who teased you then you’re a pathetic immature user and need to get over high school.  I also object to the idea that all men talk like this and think these things.  Thats a justification to make their shallowness more palatable.  In truth, men don’t talk like that.  Little boys with low self esteem do.  No one comes into the dating game fully armed and comfortable.  It takes time to become comfortable and confident and if you work on that then more power to you.  But these guys are bringing women down to bring themselves up.  That’s where I have a problem.

GreenAura
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:24 pm: [report]

@ slip: there is nothing wrong with a man trying to improve himself FOR HIMSELF (same goes for women).  But trying to do it for the sake of winning over (or sleeping with) a woman defeats the purpose of self-improvement in the first place.

Riley
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:28 pm: [report]

Oh, here is where I left my horse.  Wait a second!  Who beat it to death??

slip
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:34 pm: [report]

@GreenAura & @bumbler, I agree—women and men both do vile things to each other.

I object to people who put down the pickup community as if it were not capable of good.

Slip

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:39 pm: [report]

I find it interesting that these things only work at bars and the like.  For instance, the spot where these guys have the chance to shine, to be themselves, right here in the comments section, they have spent defending this method and showing us nothing except that they replaced whatever emptiness they had inside with cheap tricks.

It’s interesting that I have never met a guy who is a pickup artist that also has good woman friends.  I daresay any woman who knew her guy friend was doing such a thing would be creeped out, and I’m relatively sure that a guy who later told a woman that he got her using a pickup method would find himself spurned because he used a formula targeted toward “picking up some broads” instead of “noticing a girl and talking to her and accepting she might reject him” which is generally how that kind of thing happens.  I know I certainly would drop a guy like a hot potato if I found that he’d approached me the precise same way he approached every other girl, and that had I rejected him I’d be chronicled on their QQ boards as a horrible undeserving, unworthy bitch.

That is really kind of horrifying, just knowing that the girl who responds isn’t special somehow, isn’t a girl he noticed and had his eye on and found appealing for her own value.  No, he picked a girl who was just (to him) a penis-holster in a long line of penis-holsters and in the end the only one that has any value to him is the one who lets him park his pecker in her.

GreenAura
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 02:44 pm: [report]

@ Riley: point taken! haha

_jsw_
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 03:45 pm: [report]

@Riley: Your horse was ugly anyway. And so are you. By the way, I’ve been watching you for a while, and want to know if there’s more to you than meets the eye. Speaking of eyes, I’ve been growing my eyebrows extra long for charity. Do you like them? You should, and you should like me, because I’m the best thing you could ever hope to get. That reminds me of the time my buddies and I were at a bar and a fight broke out between two women who were jealous of my eyebrows, and…

Riley? Why are you trying to get on your horse and ride it out of here? Come on, man, it’s dead. Stop acting uninterested. Yeah, I know we’re both guys who are interested in women, but none of the women in here are worth anything - you can tell it by their bitchy attitude - and I’m the best guy who’s into women who will ever hit on you. I mean, I’m not really. Really, deep down, I’m a loser, but I learned all these pick up techniques to make me seem like an interesting challenge for the hour or two it’ll take to bag you, then you’ll realize I’m just a shallow loser and you should never have that much to drink again.

I don’t even think you can hear me. That damned horse is making too much noise as you’re dragging it away.

_jsw_
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 03:57 pm: [report]

@alphabete: I once met Rick Baker, if that means anything to you. I’m sure he’s not as Coke Slurpee worthy as knowing Rob Bottin, but maybe it’s worth a stick of gum.

Er, I mean… you have terrible taste in, um, shoes, and you’ll never have a better guy make an uninvited reply to one of your posts. I’m out of here. Which reminds me of the time my buddies and I saw these chicks stumbling drunk out of this limo, and we went over and…

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 04:02 pm: [report]

@_jsw_: I feel you have stripped me of my prideful nature and I am now ready to be receptive to your advances.  Also here is a stick of gum.

Also you really met Rick Baker?  :O Was he nice?  Did you talk about anything?  Also what do you think is wrong with my shoes?  HAVE MORE GUM I CAN HARDLY RESIST YOU!

_jsw_
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 04:12 pm: [report]

@alphabete: I will of course deign to talk to you until you service me sexually. You are indeed fortunate that Riley was dumb enough to lose out on my charms and my immense magical penis that can not only pleasure you, but also sing and build homes and make you taller.

And yes, I really did meet him down in the Caribbean a decade or so ago. He was very laid back and very nice. He was also a bit buzzed on margaritas, so that might have explained some of it. Someone at the bar had mentioned who he was, and I had to go up and talk to him. I think he’s immensely talented, and we discussed “An American Werewolf in London”. I talked to him all of five or ten minutes, but he was very gracious.

And, um, then I called him an untalented hack, and he so had sex with me.

slip
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 04:15 pm: [report]

@alphabete
Game is the ability to understand a social interaction as it unfolds, and to then influence to some extent the outcome of the interaction. It works everywhere, not just in bars. It’s even useful for reading people’s reactions in business meetings.

Pickup is precisely about “noticing a girl and talking to her and accepting she might reject him.” Most women find it exciting when a man ISN’T terrified by the prospect of her walking away—they’ve met too many men who are so desparate that they’d sacrifice their lives to be with any woman. Those guys are basically saying that their lives aren’t worth living without her—and despite what women say, their actions show that they don’t find that attractive.

I haven’t “replaced the emptiness…with cheap tricks.” Game has helped me become a better, more caring person, a better father, and a better friend. Maybe you’re not meeting the right kind of pickup artist.

The real meat of it is that too many men have been led to believe that women deserve to be put on pedestals. They don’t. They’re people, just like men, trying to get from one day to the next. In light of that, a woman has to show some pretty stellar qualities to be worth taking up someone’s time. Mere possession of the right genitals isn’t enough. The bulk of game is just showing a woman that you understand her basic humanity and that you’re not threatened by her.

But how can a man understand a woman’s non-sexual value until he meets her? And what if he needs a little help? Do you condemn him for getting that help? Is it all just too icky?

Slip

_jsw_
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 04:31 pm: [report]

Um, why is Riley’s horse still here?

@slip: It seems a bit disingenuous to say that a pickup artist has merely learned to treat women as people. it doesn’t take a course to learn that. The point of the “art” - and referring to it as “game” and “pickup” reveals the true motivation - is not to learn to treat women as equals. It’s to learn how to get women to have sex with you. I don’t have a problem with trying to get women to have sex with you. The species sort of needs that kind of thing. But stop trying to spin it as being something that simply gives men the confidence to be themselves. The standard by which a pickup artist is judged is not how well he treats women as regular folk and how good he is at getting his true personality across. It’s purely and simply the number and quality of women he’s bedded - and, I suppose, in a couple of cases, whether or not he’s been able to get a TV show centered around him.

alphabete
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 04:49 pm: [report]

@slip: Your game won’t work on me.  Can’t you see I’m too busy getting taller?

_jsw_
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 04:57 pm: [report]

@alphabete: Before we go at it again, please let me know if the architectural diagrams are acceptable so I can start building. Oh, and if you would, lift up the sheets a bit so I can have another look at you… I need to pound in some nails. Any song requests while you wait?

slip
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 05:30 pm: [report]

@alphabete, I’m not running game on you. I’m taken. And I’m not sure I understand the “taller” thing.

@jsw, you have your standard and I have mine. Maybe you should raise yours.

Slip

_jsw_
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 06:07 pm: [report]

@slip: My standards are quite good, although I can’t say the same for the women who have been in relationships with me. In the end, I’m happy, you’re happy, and I guess we both have found our paths.

pragmatryst
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 07:35 pm: [report]

@alphabete: I was raised on Coke Slurpees and Speed Racer, but I should mention that I’ve had same cock-holster for a number of years now and although she would never sit through The Howling much less listen to me drone on about the artistry behind the special effects I’m a one holster at a time kind of guy.

@tattooed_redhead: What the frak is a BSG?  Actually, my favorite pick-up line use to be “Hey babe, come back to my place and I’ll show you how I can turn a number #3 skin job into a #8 without a resurrection ship” 

@Bumbler: “By the way guys, what term would you use for a woman who sleeps around to boost her self esteem?”  Um, let’s see, how about “ex sister-in-law”?

tattooed_redhead
wrote on July 9 2009 @ 09:18 pm: [report]

@ pragmatryst - Best. Pickup. Line. EVER.
Unfortunately, only works on geeks like me.

Mainer
wrote on July 10 2009 @ 05:49 am: [report]

“Does your father own a juice factory?”
“No, why?”
“Because you’re Very Fine.”

ACTUALLY WORKED hahaha. A buddy bet me $50 I didn’t have the balls to actually use that on a girl, but she laughed so hard it worked out well. It’s all in the approach - if you slink up behind her and whisper in her ear “i’ve been noticing you from across the room” she’ll likely dump her cosmopolitan in your face. It’s all a game - no one expects to find their true love at a bar (though some do), but really people just go out and play mind game with each other. Guys try to pick up girls (win), girls try to mess with guys (win) and get free drinks (win) or reject them (win) or sleep with the hot ones (win).

It’s all a game.

slip
wrote on July 10 2009 @ 08:16 am: [report]

@Mainer: exactly right. Slinking up behind anyone is a good recipie for failure. But if you walk up, introduce yourself and look her in the eyes as you speak, lots of things will work.

@_jsw_: go with God.

GalaxyBounce
wrote on July 10 2009 @ 08:29 am: [report]

Fortunately, I’ve never needed to use a line, but I always have a few on hand JUST in case:

- walk up behind and say, “Do as your told, and nobody will get hurt.”

- I’m not really this tall, I’m sitting on my wallet

- Hi, my name’s Kevin. How do you like me so far.

SO glad I’ve never had to use a line.

Frederica Bimble
wrote on July 10 2009 @ 11:26 am: [report]

This is interesting.  I heard about this “negging” thing a while ago and last year a guy tried to use it on me but I take people at face value so if someone “insults” me, then I can’t logically see any reason to talk to them.

You see, I was bullied relentlessly as a child and teenager - in high school, I was called “pizza face” or “dog” or other names I can’t really repeat here.  My self esteem was crushed by the time I became a young woman but lo and behold, I became visually, classically “beautiful” (no braces, acne gone, no longer “skinny”, etc. etc.) but my mind was still that bullied kid.  My 20’s were a catalogue of men “proving” themselves to each other and to their own minds but not giving a flying toss about me as a human.  I had a paranoia about being stared at but women would tell me, “they’re staring at you because you’re a pretty girl or you’re beautiful.”  To this day, I still have to stop myself from assuming that I’m being stared at because I’m funny looking (from the bullies) or because I’m weird or ugly or whatever.

See, gentlemen, you may see a beautiful woman before you and you will project your thoughts and insecurities upon her but if you stopped and took the time, you may just find out she’s a regular person who would like to be loved for herself just like anyone else. 

Back to this guy who tried to “neg” me last year.  He was a comedian and after his show, I approached him (like I would anyone because I don’t have many friends) and (a) he pretended he didn’t know I’d just watched him in the audience even though there were only 34 seats in the room and I was in the front row (ha, ha, ha, ha) and (b) he pointed over to my work mate - who came to the show with me - and pretended like something my workmate (male) said was more interesting than the conversation I was trying to strike up with him.  Yep, I took him at face value and said:  “oh, I’ll go get him, just a minute.”  The comedian was about to say something because his “technique” blew up in his face, not because I was playing a “game” but because I was so used to being either (a) insulted by bullies in my teenage years or (b) treated badly by guys who just wanted a shag and then they’d evaporate.  Also, as an aside, the comedian talked about the “technique” in his routine so when he actually tried to “use it” on me, I felt sorry for him but that took about 2 days for me to realise what he’d done.  I’m also Aspergers and can’t help but take people as they come. 

Folks, if you want to know people, just look in the mirror and ask yourself what YOU expect.  There’s your answer.  Also, I’ve been all over the world and am one of life’s loners.  This I know to be true the world over:  There is no difference in expectations in relationships between men and women. 
Start being honest with yourself and treat that woman the way you’d want her to treat you and you’ll get yourself a “good” one. 
Don’t like being “smothered?”  Don’t do it to her.
Love sex?  Be honest and sex up the one you’re with.
Like being treated with honesty?  Then give it.

Like attracts like and we are what we put out.  I learned it the hard way and am still learning it.  On a final note, try not to bully or victimise others - that crap “stays with you.”

Gingee
wrote on July 12 2009 @ 05:22 pm: [report]

If a guy wants to meet a gal, there is an easy way to get this done:

Introduce yourself.  Say, “I would like to see you sometime. What is your name, may I have your telephone number?” 

Just be yourself.

GQguy
wrote on July 13 2009 @ 09:45 am: [report]

I’m not so sure about the $3000 dollar investment, but then again if it works it’s well worth it. I’ve read up on the “pick up artist” info and applied it to my life with plenty of success. I think it is easy to get lost in all of the information though. For me it’s about being my more fun self. The women I date appreciate what i’ve learned whether they know it or not as do I. Coming up to a woman and introducing yourself confidently is cool, but it’s the same approach i’d use if I was meeting the VP of the company I work for. Boring. The following conversation would then go to where I went to school, what we do blah blah blah. A mini job interview. The PUA stuff taught me to be interesting in a different way which allows me to stand out from the crowd.

When it comes to this PUA stuff us guys are just looking for a way to get past female defenses so they don’t filter you out with every other guy. Once we get past that she and I get really get to know one another. Now I meet numerous women and i’m far choosier than in the past. Down the line i’m certain i’ll marry a woman that is highly compatible with me due to the fact that I won’t have to “settle”. While I havn’t invested the 3 grand how much is finding the woman of your dreams worth? How much do divorces cost nowadays?

Some see the pick up artist as a mysogonist. Some are. They are sad individuals. Many are not though. I love women. I am a far better lover/boyfriend, and understand the needs of women better than I ever did before.

Fellas, I’d be very wary of taking advice on women from women….they tend to not be very honest about what works. They’ll tell what they’d like to work.

If you buy a girl you like a drink before she’s attracted to you thinking it will help. You are wrong.

Gingee
wrote on July 13 2009 @ 10:16 am: [report]

GQGUY:

Female defenses?  Probably not. It is more like getting our attention and not being a potential liability.

It’s like this:  Gals get hit on all the time, and after a while, ya learn how to not even hear them.  It is a way for us to Save Face.  If we have to see the guy again, it’s more comfortable for us to pretend that he never offered and we never rejected him.

There is one thing that ALL guys need to realize:  You live in a different world than we do.  You might be looking for companionship, but we have to be concerned with safety.

Don’t care if you are a nice guy:  You must be a good guy.

For the record, I do not remember what my husband said to me, but it worked, obviouly.

Dmun
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:17 pm: [report]

@GQGuy

If these techniques didn’t work, no one would use them—and yet they do. And women think the techniques and philosophy itself are sexist when it’s just another tool to do what all humans want to do—interact.

Today’s society, especially in cities, makes interaction a minefield.

“Fellas, I’d be very wary of taking advice on women from women….they tend to not be very honest about what works. They’ll tell what they’d like to work.

If you buy a girl you like a drink before she’s attracted to you thinking it will help. You are wrong. “

Truer words rarely spoken.

GirlvWorld
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:21 pm: [report]

whoa… the guys on this blog are really angry at your article.  I think there’s some truth in it… I also think there’s a lot of truth in the Trial and Error method.  Some girls are bitches, some are not.  Some dudes are douchebags, some are not.  There’s no tried and true method for any of us.  Me?  I’m a fan of corny (not cheesy).  Throw me a polar bear pick up line, and I’m sold.

http://www.blog.#&@$%.com

ChoJinn
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 12:31 pm: [report]

@#&@$%:  A polar bear walks into a bar, and says to the bartender “Hey, can you give me a pint….......................of Guiness?”  The bartender says “Sure, but why the big pause?”

<—funny guy

GalaxyBounce
wrote on July 15 2009 @ 01:29 pm: [report]

A baby seal walks into a club.

By the time the girl gets it, I’m already home.