Girl Talk: Guys Versus Men

JenniferRly
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:13 pm: [report]

I do believe there is a happy medium… Just saying is all.

SterlingSilver36
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:13 pm: [report]

I feel like guys can eventually become men, however men cannot become guys.
So dating guys is, in my opinion, a smart move. If things progress to the point where true commitment becomes a viable option the male who was once a guy will slowly evolve into a man.

skywalk
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:22 pm: [report]

I love guys, I married one and now I have the greatest guy in the world and always the man when needed!!!

DancerNinja
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:25 pm: [report]

I’m whatever the female equivalent of a “guy” is. Not a girl. Not a woman. So I’ll take the equivalently in between-ness of a guy and we can watch piles of trash pile up together and play paper-rock-scissors-lizard-Spock to see who takes it out.

Raugiel
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:26 pm: [report]

If “men” are what Cathleen Calbert describes, I hope I never, EVER end up with one.

Riley
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:38 pm: [report]

Ami - I know where you are coming from on the married friends and vicarious life living.  It is always fun to hear how empty my life apparently is since I haven’t spawned offspring or not getting laid by every woman I meet (differing opinions on the meaning of life from one married couple - matching opinions shouldn’t be hard!).

I take out trash, recycle, and have a job and a house.  Definitely not stoic (pretty easy to read actually) or controlling and despite the perception of forward progress, I’m still a mess.

Kind of like treading water until I figure out where to swim.

bogart4017
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:45 pm: [report]

I like ehat skywalk said!!! She doesnt sound like an extremist. Let me give you an example—-
Fellas—don’t date a girl, marry a woman. Why? Because—-
a woman won’t sit at the bar-her place is the booth.
a woman doesnt offer to split the bill-she knows the man handles that. He’ll let you buy him a drink later.
a woman doesnt sweat the small stuff-she perspires!
a woman doesnt get upset when the checkout clerk puts her chang on the counter instead of her hand-theres a real man behind her to pick it up and place it where it belongs.
a woman does not have to ask to be escorted anywhere-if she does she’s got a guy, not a man.
a woman doesnt get falling down drunk-thats a chick.
a woman does her crying in private behind closed doors.
and finally a woman is not an angel-she’s meant to bring forth angels.
    just thought i’d write something thought-
    provoking for a change. Enjoy.

Shriekback68
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:55 pm: [report]

From the definition posted in this article, I’m both. Why must there be this need to pigeonhole everyone? If you don’t like it done to you, then don’t do it to us guys (or am I a man? I’m confused).

Just as most women are neither girls or women, most men are not guys or men. But it makes for a provocative topic, doesn’t it?

skywalk
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 12:56 pm: [report]

@Shriekback68:  No one called you guys (boys) but what would the comparison be:

chicks vs women?  it wouldn’t be lady what would it be?

retro chic
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 01:17 pm: [report]

@bogart: I understand your distinctions. For me it’s similar, but more general. Men or women – that’s reserved for people that have courage and a grown human heart, able to go beyond themselves – protecting their relationship, not competing or guarding within it. They’re not worried about equal divisions and petty, inconsequential things that serve only to hurt it in the long run.
And nobody can be men or women at all times; I like the say @skywalk put it too.

powplz
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 01:50 pm: [report]

hmm, I always thought my bf stood out from all the other guys/males who I had dated, lived with (roommates!), or been friends with in that he was definitely more towards man on the guy-man division than any other male in my life.  Why?  Because he had his #&@$% together in a way none of the others did.  And don’t think that took away from the romance of the ‘possibility’ pro of a “guy”. 

He started his own business and owns the house, and even though he’s definitely more in-tune with taking out the trash than I am, he’s got plenty of ‘guy’ to him to balance it out.  But the stability that shines through the ‘man’ side of the scale has been a really calming force in my own hectic life. 

I think @ShriekBack is right - pigeonholing is unnecessary.  As I said before, I think the two ideas are definitely distinct from each other, but that it’s more of a scale than two opposing sides of a coin.

OKSUNI
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 02:25 pm: [report]

I agree….guys (boys) are who you have fun with—men are who you marry and have babies with. If a “male” wont go to the grocery store without being told, he’s a guy. If he always let you remember to get the t.p., toothpaste, take the dog to the vet, he’s a guy. If he has no clue when the last time he changed his bed sheets was, he’s a guy. If he lets you write his mother the thank-you notes after you bought the Xmas presents for his family, he’s a guy. Real men are rare and magical creatures.

Tart and Soul
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 03:00 pm: [report]

I’m always dating “guys” - young, fun, bright-eyed, sexy. However, I’d like to be in a serious relationship, so of course, everyone’s suggesting I get myself a “man.” I’ve now decided to forget about guys and am even going so far as to go after men who’ve been divorced. Part of me thinks it’s the way to go, though another part is bored by the idea. 

Check out my blog post, “Only Divorced Men Need Apply” and tell me what you think.

http://tartandsoul.com/2009/09/27/only-divorced-men-need-apply/

retro chic
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 03:48 pm: [report]

@Tart and Soul: What about just dating older men for awhile?

Years ago, I used to date older men. Some MUCH older, ie 10-15 years older and def more grown up. Those were invaluable, loving experiences without much drama. If you define lack of drama as boring, then that might not be for you. And, I wouldn’t especially seek out divorced guys, either, ‘cause I know why you’re doing that; there’s baggage there. Those experiences will come soon enough without targeting them. Baggage ≠ maturity or manhood.

C.Munro
wrote on September 29 2009 @ 05:27 pm: [report]

Date whomever you like.  If he likes you back, he’ll probably try to be considerate whether you think of him as a man or a guy. 

I just think the married folk need to quit meddling in the lives of their single friends.  Or should I say married women?  After all, none of my married male friends tell me I need to be dating or ask when I’m going to “settle down.”

Surprisingly Sweet Aftertaste
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 07:59 am: [report]

@C.Munro I would need to disagree with that a bit. As a single female with many married girlfriends it is the women who tell me stay single while their husbands keep inviting any single male they happen upon to dinner. “So… I would like you to meet Joe Blow” Nudge Nudge Wink Wink.
I suspect these husbands are tired of being rented out to me. Fixing leaking sinks, securing the air conditioner, or my calls about my car and how it keeps making this funky noise. I personally think married friends are a true asset. I get the bonus of the husband without the actually having a husband.  I don’t need a cupid. I need a man with a tool box who leaves when he is done I wonder if I can get them to come over and take out the trash on a regular basis?

majicksand
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 08:22 am: [report]

I don’t take out the trash.  Neither does my husband.  We have KIDS for that!

Frederica Bimble
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 08:42 am: [report]

C. Munro and Surprisingly Sweet Aftertaste: There have been many studies on marriage and I think this particular fact should be placed as weekly news update in all media - men are happiest married and single women are happiest.  Shocking, huh, but true.
That stereotype that people perpetuate of a woman dragging a man off to be married is wrong.  And, it is just that - a stereotype.  Men gain A LOT from being married and women LOSE alot.  Sad but true.

Frederica Bimble
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 08:46 am: [report]

Also, C. Munro - is that really YOU in your photo?!  If so, you are quite attractive, indeed.  Alas, I am old enough to be your mother and besides, with the glass eye and peg leg, you wouldn’t give me a second look…..

retro chic
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 09:25 am: [report]

@Frederica Bimble: Try as you may, if a man says he doesn’t want marriage – believe him. There’s a reason. Catch and release, only skip the catch part. Also, check some of the profiles/links… can explain a lot.

shewholaughslast
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 10:10 am: [report]

OMG..thank you thank you thank you!... Another way to justify why I have not settled yet (or settled down according to my mother).

B1ll
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 10:28 am: [report]

@Frederica Bimble: Anyone, man or woman, who marries another gains and loses.  You can’t make a commitment to another person without serious give and take between the two.  Guys and chicks lose the freedom they were used to as they learn and grow with the man/woman they’ve married.

@retro chic: First, 10-15 years may be older but not MUCH older.  Secondly, mature men lack drama because they have come to realize how useless it is.  No relationship can truly survive it since it usually iindicates a lack or trust and/or true love. 

And as far as “boring” goes, it depends on the specific man you choose to have that relationship with.  All “older” men don’t stop enjoying or experiencing life.  It’s just as wonderful and exciting as long as you approach it that way and share new experiences with your partner.  And divorce does not automatically equal baggage.  Believe it or not, it is possible for someone to realize their marriage needs to end without rancor or loss of respect for someone they shared a life with.

However, you are absolutely right in that, if a man says he doesn’t want marriage, believe him.

majicksand
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 11:05 am: [report]

If two people choose the right partner, nobody “loses” in a marriage.  The fact that I’m not allowed to have sex with anyone else?  I don’t consider that a loss.  I gained a lover, a confidant, a co-parent… a partner.  I’m much happier married than I was single, and so is my husband.

C.Munro
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 11:15 am: [report]

@SSAftertaste:  That’s funny.  I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.  FWIW, I love my married friends too, both the men and women.  But I don’t get any wifely benefits from the women.  It’s not like I bring my laundry over, heh. 

@Frederica:  I’ve read studies that make the same claim you are regarding who benefits more in a marriage, but they were all done in the bad old days when wives were treated as servants.  From what I’ve seen among my family and friends, usually the man ends up taking care of a woman who doesn’t appreciate him all that much.  I don’t mean just financially, I mean doing the cooking, the cleaning, and generally catering to them night and day.  Maybe that’s a matter of perspective too.  But any way you cut it, I’ve seen very few that were genuine partnerships of equals (which is the only way I’d have it). 

But I do agree on one thing:  It does seem that the men I know are more eager to get married in the first place than the women. 

And yes, that is really me in my picture.  And thank you.

justme
wrote on September 30 2009 @ 03:30 pm: [report]

I’ve always thought the difference between Men and Boys was a sense of responsibility.

LadyMetsFan
wrote on October 1 2009 @ 02:41 pm: [report]

I agree with all those who say there is a happy medium. In the past year the man/guy I married has replaced the alternator, spark plugs and distributor cap in my truck, taken out the trash at least once a week and helped me plan our wedding. He can be lazy on his days off but he also works very hard to help pay the rent. And to top him off: HE COOKS! He also sometimes drinks a little too much and occasionally stays out too late with his friends. Bottom line, hes a wonderful man and a great guy and im very thankful for both.

SouthOC
wrote on October 1 2009 @ 03:20 pm: [report]

A wise man once said there are 3 signs of a Mature Man:

1.  He remains calm during a storm (no drama - takes responsibility for his actions and doesn’t blame others)

2.  He has healthy relationships (cares about others - is respected by others)

3.  He is able to dedicate himself to purposes greater than himself (he isn’t self centered)

hlh22
wrote on October 2 2009 @ 08:20 am: [report]

I couldn’t disagree more.  My ex-finance was definitely a guy.  When the times got tough and we started having problems, I always wished that he’d grow up a little and be able to work through things, rather than acting like an immature… guy.  Ditto with stuff like taking out the garbage, doing his own laundry (his mom still did his!), etc., etc.  My boyfriend now though definitely falls into the man category.  Like, he takes out the trash after dinner because he knows that it’ll smell in the morning otherwise.  Maybe he’s less “fun,” but he’ll be way better long term.  And, it’s nice that he understands that I have a house, job, other friends, etc. to balance.  Like, I gave him two choices of what he wanted for dinner tomorrow night bc he’s coming to my house for the evening, and he wrote back with something to the effect of “I’d pick A, but B would be a close second.  Do you need me to pick anything up? I can help with the preparation too if you want.  Or if you’re too busy to go shopping, we can always go out too.”  It was so refreshing.

Kat
wrote on October 2 2009 @ 04:55 pm: [report]

I only agree with @SouthOC.

People are more complex than these silly little lines in the sand.

My fiancé is likely to stay up with me all night, drinking wine and playing video games and watching cartoons.
He rubs my belly.
He’ll lick chocolate off it.
He doesn’t tell me what to do.(and how is this a BAD THING exactly?)
He takes out the garbage.
He does the laundry and the dishes.
He has keys and alarm codes.
He wears innocuous dress shirts frequently
DOESN’T “take revenge when necessary”(Revenge is a GOOD THING?)
And he is the farthest thing from “stoic and uncommunicative.”

I’m trying to “define” him and I fail. I think the OP has it right when she wants to be with someone who SUITS her.

I don’t see how a “man” is better than a “guy”, quite honestly. These definitions of “real men and women” sound like boring-ass stick in the muds.

Ciao99
wrote on October 3 2009 @ 01:02 pm: [report]

This is an American thing. In other parts of the world boys are taught to step up to the plate and become men.

But in the US, women have to dominate everything. So they don’t want a man seeking a wife. Instead, they want an overgrown boy who needs a mommy.

If a boy becomes responsible, AKA a man, then he doesn’t need a woman hovering over every little aspect of his life, and let’s face it, that’s what the ladies want so they can control everything.

divorcedman
wrote on October 4 2009 @ 02:35 pm: [report]

No wonder American men are avoiding marriage in droves.

Please, go ahead and marry “guys”.  Just don’t have children with them, or do anything else that involves a sense of responsibility or a need for true commitment.

But then again, do whatever you want.  You’re an American woman, and free to be “empowered” any way you see fit.

SouthOC
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 10:06 am: [report]

On my wedding day, my uncle called from out of town with great advice.  He said if both of us lived by this one rule, we’d be happy… The rule is:

You treat me good, and I’ll treat you better.

The idea is to expect the other person to be good to you (don’t be a doormat), and always look for ways to treat the other person with kindness.

It’s worked out really well for 15 years now…

angel001717
wrote on October 7 2009 @ 10:28 am: [report]

this article is interesting but slanted. there are benefits to guys and men alike. obviously a happy-medium is best and the only thing women should settle for. you cannot possibly expect a “man” to always act mature and above the norm. all men are guys deep down, even if only a bit. and who would be happy without some of the more carefree side of men poping out once in awhile?

being a “guy” is not all good or bad.
being a “man” is not all good or bad.
so there

Green_Viking
wrote on October 12 2009 @ 07:18 pm: [report]

@Frederica: Did those studies ask the women if they would rather go back to being single? When indeed were the studies done? I know a lot of men and women who daydream about their old “single days” with rose-tinted lenses, but if they are in an even OK marriage, none of them have said they would return to bachelor(ette)hood.

Theoretically, marriage can be a bad deal for women according to some anthropology studies about polygamy versus polyandry that claim several women can share one powerful man much easier than several men can share one woman. As women say, “a good man is hard to find”, maybe some women are not happy in their marriage because they settled too much? More on that later.

@Ami:

Guys vs. Men, it really comes down to the carousel argument about “Bad Boys in her 20’s, Men in her 30’s” in my mind. The Rutgers University Marriage project shows that if a woman gets married after 25, her chance of divorce drops by 25%. Of course you want to believe that the best part of your life is ahead of you and in some ways it certainly is…but 40 is not impossibly far in the future anymore either.

According to Lori Gottleib, a lot of women pursue the perfect combination of “guy” joviality and “man” responsibility to their ultimate detriment. Are you ditching perfectly good men because they don’t have just the right amount of witty banter and fashion sense? Having someone there to fix your car, or (help?) change the tire if you get a flat in the middle of a snowstorm and the lug nuts were pneumatically tightened (Do you carry a leverage bar in your trunk?) can be a really good thing.