Girl Talk: I Have Terrible Girlfriend Syndrome

Nonprophet
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 11:05 am: [report]

You’re a flake, and not ready for a relationship.  That’s o.k.  You’re young and you don’t need to be ready for a relationship.  What you should focus on first is being honorable.  It’s o.k. to break up, but there’s no reason to lie or be cruel.  If you just woke up and don’t want to see someone anymore, then just tell them and move on.

xifeng882
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 11:08 am: [report]

I too suffer from these disease. The only people I’ve ever dated who made it past two weeks were those who put their foot down and really tried to get a legitimate reason of why I wanted it over out of me (at which point I typically don’t have a reason) and then its rare that any of them make it past a few months. I just start bickering so they’ll want to give up on me. I used to chalk this up to commitmentphobia but I’m not so sure anymore. I’m glad I’m not the only one.

Coral
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 11:18 am: [report]

Back in my early days of high school, I was kinda like this too. But I have been dating my boyfriend for 3 years now, and I have definitely changed. What it seems to me is that you are more fearful of relationships and afraid of getting hurt—so in order to protect yourself you make yourself inaccessible, and you act bitchy to fend off the unwarranted behavior. Maybe you have been hurt or deceived before, but, getting over this fear is definitely necessary in order to maintain a stable and healthy relationship. Just my opinions on that.

H. Blue
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 11:18 am: [report]

wow.  you sound like several of the guys I’ve dated.  lol I think nonprophet is right- you’re just not ready.  however, the fact that you recognize what you’re doing and it seems to bother you..  maybe you ought to figure out WHY you’re doing what you do?  because it sounds like if you’re not quite ready, you soon will be, and when you are if you keep up the same kind of behaviors..

amb9206
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 11:31 am: [report]

It’s scary how familiar this sounds!  I’ve done this a lot of times; broken up with a good guy for no good reason.  I really want to be in a relationship, but i’m a serial cheater.  I guess I like the idea of having someone and knowing I can still get someone else???  I’m 28, you would think I would have this #&@$% figured out by now.

ladyparts
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 11:48 am: [report]

I agree with previous posters, it sounds like you’re really just not ready for a relationship but don’t sweat it. I was very much like this, and it turned out to be emotional immaturity, not something innately wrong with me. I would NEVER pull some of the things I did with my boyfriend of 1.5 years now, the guy who I love, almost nauseatingly so, and sometimes even smother with affection and niceness. But if I really sat down and thought about it, some of those other guys I tossed aside are just as wonderful or close (but with less cute butts though)and it was a little bit of je ne sais quois but a whole lot of timing.
Advice, try and spend some years casually dating around, tell people upfront that you aren’t ready for anything serious (and mean it, stick to it, dont be persuaded) and then just give yourself a break to make mistakes and date the “right” ones who just aren’t right for you at the time. Above all dont let other people make you feel guilty for not wanting to be with them even if they are wonderful human beings. You sound selfaware, so that means you have the capacity to be aware of others feelings too. When you are ready to focus on someone elses needs and feelings, you will. Just when you are about to type out a nastyemail or say something awful, just pause and think about the relationship karma you are building up. You can give people the brush off without being a bitch and you’ll feel better about finding a way to stick up for your own needs without hurting anyone else.

Humble Bee
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 11:58 am: [report]

oy vey, poor guys.
I used to be like this in H.S, I would just go out with one guy after another. The last episode of Hung reminded me of how I used to be, when the girl Ray goes to see tells him, “F uck your heart”  and he’s like, what did you just say?, She responds with a cold. “I said, f uck your heart” Ray goes on about how she had that look in her eyes when they were together, and she says “look at my eyes now, what do you see” and she has this cold blank stare… oh man. I’ve done that so many times. Then I got stuck in a 4 yr relationship that made me want to stop dating all together!

effing hickster
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 12:13 pm: [report]

I’m one of those guys she writes about, and am all too familiar with TGFS in some women. I’d have to say that my list of “dumpers” is probably just as long as her list of “dumpees”.

I think part of it has to do with the same type of vanity that prods some men into thinking they need to have the trophy girlfriend/wife. The other part is the conquest or thrill of the chase, which winds up in what I like to call “Christmas Morning Syndrome”, where once the presents are opened, you lose interest.

In the end, you may really like this person, but not enough to stand being judged by your peers. At least you’re starting to recognize there could be a problem.

I also must add that “Terrible Girlfriends” tend to be good training for guys who haven’t navigated dangerous waters before. It sometimes winds up working in our favor, making delicate hearts a little more calloused for the wear without breaking them completely. Better to be dumped early on than strung out for months or even years. It’s good life experience.

On a side note: My own brother wound up getting married to the woman who engaged in conversation with him as he waited for an hour or so for the date who stood him up. Go figure.

brandyalexander
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 12:20 pm: [report]

Thanks for affirming that his behaviour comes from women as well as from men…

allieite
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 12:43 pm: [report]

Wow, thank you for letting me know I am not the only one! The worst part is the last guy I did this too, I dated for 1.5 years. After a year of the drama, I straightened up, realized he was the one for me, went to a shrink to figure out why, and fixed it. By this time he had enough of my antics and dumped me.

I know I deserved it but it painful to know that its my fault and there is nothing more I can do.

tk_2009
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 01:29 pm: [report]

I find this post really… confusing. I assume you didn’t write it because you wanted random strangers on the internet to scold you and loudly decry your behavior, so it’s a bit of a head-scratcher for me. I mean, you’re only what, 20, 21 at most, so it’s easy to say that you’re not really grown up yet (let’s face it, this isn’t the frontier anymore, it’s easy to say that real maturity doesn’t start to manifest in most people until the mid to late 20s at best). But your self-knowledge, and willingness to put it all out there indicate some personal insight and courage. So it begs the question, if you know you’re being a jackass (and you are, this isn’t bad girlfriend syndrome, it’s bad person</em< syndrome), then why not just stop? I know that’s easy to say, but you seem so cavalier about the whole thing, and simply saying you don’t think you can stop isn’t really an excuse. If you don’t know why you’re doing something, <em>don’t do it. This includes getting in to a relationship as well as getting out. If you can’t understand your own motivations you have no business inflicting that on other people. I’m with the very first commenter: you have no business being in a relationship until you can sort your sh*t out, so to speak. Bah, here I go, scolding you. Unless you enjoy the life of a hermit, you have an obligation to yourself and those around you to sort this nastiness out, and I suspect that time is the only cure. Until you can ask yourself why, about anything, and come up with an answer, there is more work to do. Scolding over.

Santiago
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 02:40 pm: [report]

I just want to thank you for your incredible honesty. Honesty is always the first step towards growth.

Have you ever considering going to a therapist? Sometimes these issues come from repressed events or an absentee parent (usually father.) more often then not a therapist can help you work out the source of these issues so you can move on. Bad behavior like this can often be your subconscious trying to clue you in to areas of pain or weakness.

allieite
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 02:57 pm: [report]

@Santiago, I totally agree. It is how I figured out why I was treating someone I cared this way. If you know why and deal with it, there is always a way to fix it.

I agree it may have somewhat has to do with age or what kind of relationship you want but not completely. There is definitely more to it than that!

Coral
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 03:00 pm: [report]

I don’t think it has to do with age at all. It’s about maturity. I’m 18 and I have been in a relationship for 3 years, and now it is long-distance.

develange
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 04:15 pm: [report]

I’m so glad you wrote this article!
I was guilty of this. It was usually with guys who treated me well and wanted a relationship. I kicked them to the curb, claiming I just wanted something casual.

Then, the ones I pursued and “seriously” dated were the ones who weren’t very nice to me…go figure.

I like to think my immature and unappreciative behavior is over, but my boyfriend and I recently broke up, so who knows what will happen now…

autumn_dust
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 09:42 pm: [report]

It sounds like you’ve never been dumped. I used to have the undying urge to flee whenever I was committed to someone, and one day /I/ got dumped for a change. It really took me off my high horse, and I have a better understanding of how the whole thing works. It put things into perspective for me.

autumn_dust
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 09:46 pm: [report]

you might also want to look at the examples of relationships you’ve been shown in your life. Healthy, or unstable, ect… that could have a huge impact on your attitude

Titi
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 10:30 pm: [report]

It’s very refreshing to read this. Women are just as capable of non-committal behavior as men.
This article describes exactly how I was until I was in my mid-twenties. I dumped perfectly good men for no reason, fled at the first mention of the words “love” or “boyfriend”, and was a serial cheater. I think I was afraid to let myself fall in love; to be vulnerable. Being with my now-husband changed all that, of course.

_jsw_
wrote on August 27 2009 @ 09:14 am: [report]

Maybe you dump them first to assert control and/or to prevent them from hurting you. Maybe you dump them to make up for some pain in your past. Maybe you dump them because you want at least one of them to show enough spine to ask why (as with xifeng882). Maybe you dump them because you secretly despise yourself and don’t feel worthy of the attention of a nice guy. Maybe you break up with them because you always tend to get asked out by guys with terrible b.o. and frequent gas, and you just can’t stand it after a while.

Of course, I learned all I know about psychology from television and comic strips, so my guesses don’t much matter.

It sounds like you tend to break up with guys before it ever becomes a serious relationship, so I wouldn’t worry about it. Any guy who gets too upset when a woman who has dated him only a few times breaks up with him probably should have his skin thickened a bit anyway.

Assuming you have any latent interest in having a relationship, you probably would do best with a genuinely nice guy with a bit of a rough exterior and enough self confidence to not be a doormat. So, you know, the sort of guy most women would do well with.

Sadly, though, if you’re not careful, and if you’re like friends of mine who were like you at your presumed age, you’ll next end up dating a string of complete #&@$%, who will end up breaking your heart and causing you to assume that all men truly do suck. So, you know, best to stick with whacking the little puppy guys on their noses until you find a decent guy to spend some real time with.

_jsw_
wrote on August 27 2009 @ 09:23 am: [report]

Oh, and by the way, while you’re between break-up texts and setting up initial dates with the guys you’ll break up with this weekend, would you please suggest to the powers that be that they should shrink the emoticons so they don’t totally screw with the line spacing when they’re used? Thanks.

*re-reads comment*

Crap. That was probably phrased too nicely, and you’ll text me that it’s just not working for you and you don’t want to see me in your columns anymore.

Geena
wrote on August 27 2009 @ 12:19 pm: [report]

I’ve found that the friends I’ve had who were less attractive acted moody and impossible to be around.  Perhaps there are two sides to this coin?

hops09
wrote on August 27 2009 @ 01:04 pm: [report]

It’s not TGFS, its called being a self centered, disrespectful, immature b*#%$. Unfortunately for you, there’s no cure. Look forward to many years surrounded with nobody but your cats for company.

AmLoc
wrote on August 27 2009 @ 02:10 pm: [report]

If a relationship is not working out, why waste your time? Who cares if the guy is really sweet? If a relationship is dying, it’s better to end it then to keep it going because you feel bad dumping him. Staying in a dying relationship will likely lead to an unhappy marriage and worse, divorce. Save yourself and your boyfriend the trouble.

Dumping a guy via txt is obviously rude, but what are you supposed to do, let him buy you dinner and dump him on the way home? The end result is the same.

Eventually, we will all find a relationship that will work out—a relationship that we will want to put time and effort into. Until then, all you can do is try your best.

tk_2009
wrote on August 27 2009 @ 02:24 pm: [report]

@AmLoc: agreed, for the most part. However, that isn’t really what the author is saying she is doing. She is dumping anyone and everyone for no real reason, and fully admits that most don’t deserve it. If this were an article about how she has lots of relationships that are terrible or not worth it or whatever, fine.

The other thing I disagree with: nothing important should ever take place over a text. The very least you can do is call the poor guy and tell him over the phone, if you don’t have the courage to do it in person. It’s about fundamental respect for others as people.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:53 am: [report]

Wow, harsh, people! Tonykuehn, really? Really? I moved out of my parents’ house at age 19 and have been fending for myself quite well ever since (I’m 23 now). I’ve even paid their rent a couple of times. Sweeping statements like “Oh, people aren’t mature until they’re almost thirty” indicate a lack of intellectual maturity in that they demonstrate a lack of understanding of the fact that not everyone develops at the same rate.

As for those of you who have been calling her all kinds of names; sure, she may not be emotionally mature enough for a relationship, but do you demonstrate much more maturity by going “oh, you’re just a b**ch, you’ll be alone all your life, have fun”?

I tend to take jsw’s side on the matter; I have been very guilty of similar behaviors in the past, not because I’m some immature b**ch, but because I’ve been immensely afraid of getting hurt by others. The minute a relationship would get the least bit serious, I became obsessed with the idea that my SO would leave me. The more often an SO would insist that he had no intention of doing so, the more I’d pick fights, because, in my head, the best way to eliminate a fear is to just make it happen. You can’t worry about something when it’s already done.

That said, I’ve been receiving treatment for Generalized Anxiety Disorder and potential Borderline Personality Disorder for years. It’s not something that you can just go “Oh, here’s a problem. Fixed!” It requires a lot of effort to root out psychological issues and their underlying cognitive processes.

hops09
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 11:52 am: [report]

@lareinedeslames
If you have issues, fine. But whatever they are, they are YOUR issues and there is no excuse to treat others like your doormats. And badly treating the people you have relationships with, while having no respect for the time and energy they have invested into you while you are clearly undeserving, is selfish and immature. So, you may night like the label, but as the saying goes, if the shoe fits….

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 11:59 am: [report]

I never said that I don’t respect the time and energy they have invested into me. It may also have escaped your notice that all of my descriptions of my behavior were in the PAST TENSE.

I have never, to the best of my knowledge, treated anyone like a “door mat” intentionally. I have picked fights with significant others, certainly. Generally the aim of those fights was to get them to break up with me.

As to the “you are clearly undeserving”... you know what one of the phrases I said most in those fights was? “Why do you even love me?” Telling people who act that way that they don’t deserve love and affection is tantamount to telling a recovering anorexic that she needs to go on a diet.

Until you know what’s going on in MY head, hops09, or even the whole story about my relationship experiences, I’d go ahead and refrain from calling someone immature. Especially when you’re showing quite a handy lack of consideration yourself.

_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:12 pm: [report]

@hops09: You said:

...they are YOUR issues and there is no excuse to treat others like your doormats.

Agreed, personal issues aren’t necessarily an excuse in all cases, but they are certainly an explanation.  Someone with issues such as lareinedeslames’ aren’t capable of being perfectly rational, empathetic and appropriate in their interactions with others, especially in relationships. She is clearly seeking help to get past her problems and accepts the blame for what she has done, even though it’s not something she intentionally and rationally chose to do.

*sam*
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:27 pm: [report]

While I agree that treating someone like sh*t is never acceptable, it can however, be understood. I’m the type of person that if you can explain to me why you’re doing something, chances are, I’m going to be able to forgive you, so long as you take initiative in changing your rationale behind your behavior. That aside, I think it’s completely unfair to call someone an ‘immature bitch’ for acting in this fashion. Like lareinedeslame and _jsw_ pointed out, there a whole host of reasons behind why someone acts this way that don’t have anything to do with maturity levels. So until you can understand their ‘reasoning’ you should refrain from passing judgment (IMO of course).

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:33 pm: [report]

Thanks *sam* and jsw.

jsw: you’re right. It took a LOT of self-analysis before I realized what the root cause of my cruelty was. By the time I was able to get GOOD psychiatric care, I had mostly figured out what I was doing, and somewhat why I was doing it… but just knowing that you’re being irrational doesn’t keep you from being irrational. And I really developed a self-fulfilling prophecy: This person is going to abandon me, so instead of worrying about it I’m just going to make it happen. Of course, when I made it happen, the prophecy was fulfilled, and I went into the next relationship with the same notion stuck in my head.

I’ve been told from a young age that I was the “most mature” person of my age that any of the older adults in my presence had met. Mental Illness does not correlate to lack of maturity.

tk_2009
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:39 pm: [report]

@lareinedeslames: I understand that everyone matures at a different rate, and FYI, I have been paying my own way since I was 16 and have far outstripped the maturity level of my parents. My point wasn’t to say that no one matures until their late 20s, my point was more to say that it is far more common in our society for the experiences that develop a true appreciation for the difficulties of others to occur later than they used to, e.g. 21 is not old and is no longer an age that implies maturity, because many, many 21 year-olds (or 22, or 23 or 46 or whatever) have yet to do the things that tend to build maturity, like paying their expenses, owning property, being in a long term, serious relationship, and a myriad of other things that help you understand why it is so heinous to treat others with so little regard. And despite all that, some people never really develop theory of mind and will never have an appreciation for the trials of others, regardless of what they themselves suffer.

Also, for the record, I said most, not all, people don’t really “grow up” until their mid twenties, and I stand by that. Not only do I have mountains of anecdotal experience to support it, but your knee-jerk response to my comment and the words of this post’s author support it as well. Maturity can be gained by having your own responsibilities, yes, but the real root is experience, and for people who have only seen one side of a situation (being the one doing the dumping, in this case) real understanding only comes from seeing both sides of any issue on a personal level.

And well said, _jsw_, while there may be an explanation for bad behavior, if you are aware of it there is no excuse for inflicting it on others, not dealing with it constructively and honestly is another sign of immaturity, and I applaud your efforts to handle your issues responsibly lareinedeslames.

bogart4017
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:48 pm: [report]

I hope my nephews don’t ever run into women like you. No one deserves to be treated in such a manner. 90% of the axxholes started out as nice guys burnt to a crisp by girls like this. They carry it over into other relationships and then some girl who had nothing to do with it gets burnt and then takes it to the next innocent party and then….
Anybody see where im going here?

brandyalexander
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:51 pm: [report]

bogart: Yes, but realize that this behaviour comes from men as well.  there are also plenty of bitter, mean women who started off as nice girls and got “burnt to a crisp” by some awful guy.  Its more like a universal human flaw then a gender thing.

*sam*
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:52 pm: [report]

@bogart: somehow your argument reminds me of the LoveShy guys

brandyalexander
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 12:54 pm: [report]

Bogart: Rereading your comment, I guess you were saying sort of the same thing, but I don’t think its fair to assume that the cycle starts with a girl.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 01:23 pm: [report]

tony, “handling my issues responsibly” started with my realization that my own parents weren’t mature enough to deal with the idea that their youngest child had a legitimate illness. What I took exception to in your initial post was the tone I perceived, and the tone I get a hundred times per day: “Oh, you’re only 23, you don’t know anything about life. You’re just a baby!” There is frankly little that is more frustrating than being told that I, myself, who have been victimized by parents, relatives, and strangers, “don’t know anything,” or lack the maturity to be in a “real” relationship.

A little side note, I’ve almost never done the dumping in my relationships. I’ve only once or twice been the one to officially end it. Granted, looking at it a certain way, goading someone to the point where they break up with you might be tantamount to being the dumper. I also have been in the habit of warning guys when a relationship starts to get serious that I have that tendency, though I am working hard to keep it under control. They tend not to believe me.

I am a big advocate of mental health awareness; it is frustrating when people like bogart don’t take into account that some of these “horrible women” aren’t just mean and terrible and nasty—they’re working through legitimate psychological issues.

hops09
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 01:35 pm: [report]

@lareinedeslames
I apologize, my comments were not meant to target you specifically, but to address anyone (male or female) who may behave in the manner similar to the authors story. To that point, everyone has reasons for doing things, that’s not disputed. But, it’s the persons actions that are important. If I took a gun and killed somebody for no reason, do my psychological reasons for doing it make it any less damaging? Or any more acceptable? I know the example is an extreme exaggeration, but the principal is the same.
If you treat someone poorly for no other reason than that you feel like it at the time, no matter what the psychology behind it, that is immature behavior. If you know the method you are doing it in is hurtful, and you do it anyway, that’s what a b!+@# does. And anyone who acts like that does not deserve the respect or affection given to them.
So, if you don’t want the label, don’t earn it.

tk_2009
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 01:43 pm: [report]

@lareinedeslames: I understand what you’re saying, when you hear the same thing over and over, comments that seem borderline similar (like my own) can come across as more of the same tired rhetoric. I try very hard not to paint with a broad brush, and you have shown you clearly are among the exceptions in my experience. I guess the biggest issue I have with this article is what I failed to articulate correctly: she acknowledges her problem and doesn’t even hint at wanting to change it, or what she has done to fix it or in any way acknowledge that is is something she should address in a real way. That is towering immaturity. Perhaps she has taken responsible steps that she fails to mention, but her comment of doing this “over and over again” while knowing full well she was being terrible implies that she doesn’t see the problem clearly at all, and has no intention of fixing it. Like I said, simply saying “I don’t think I can stop” doesn’t cover it, not by a long shot. Clearly you understand that, and she does not. Sorry about the knee-jerk comment, by the way, I try to be magnanimous in my comments, but sometimes my love of a debate gets the better of me.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 01:45 pm: [report]

hops09, if you killed someone because “voices in your head told you to do it” and a psychologist could verify that you actually did have voices in your head, then actually it WOULD mitigate your sentence. you would be ruled incompetent to stand trial.

By the same token, while I don’t excuse my past behavior, I do look at it through the lens of feeling like I had no other choice. In my head, I honestly and completely felt like I was going to get abandoned. The solution to angsting over when that was going to happen, to me, was to just make it happen. It’s not a healthy thought process, and it’s taken me many, many years to work it out, but that’s the truth of the person I was, and to some degree, still am.

as I said before, mental illness doesn’t take “maturity” into account. I didn’t treat people badly “because I felt like it,” I fought with them because I couldn’t deal with being afraid of being abandoned. I did it knowing it was hurtful because I simply couldn’t help it. I even warned all potential serious SOs that I was prone to such behavior.

Again, do you think that telling a recently “recovered” anorexic to go on a diet is a good idea? Or telling an alcoholic in recovery to “just calm down and have a drink” is a grand plan? Or perhaps, handing a gun to a suicidal person? I could give examples all day. Telling someone who ALREADY feels that they are going to be abandoned that they don’t deserve love is just as hurtful.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 01:49 pm: [report]

tony, all is well. I agree with you, for what it’s worth—one of my biggest pet peeves is listening to people with problems, who know the solution and won’t take it. Yes, it’s sometimes hard to solve our problems. It takes work. It’s not fun, or easy. But you have to stand up and say “You know what? I have a problem. I need to work on this.”

I love a good debate, myself.

tk_2009
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 01:58 pm: [report]

@lareinedeslames: Precisely. That takes maturity, and is conspicuously absent here. Speaking of maturity, how about luvtara over on the 13 reasons… post? Yikes.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 02:01 pm: [report]

Ha. For reals. luvtara… oh, I do enjoy a troll every now and then. The deliciously obvious “arguments.” The tortured corkscrew logic. It’s priceless. The world would be a much less interesting place without people like her. Even if she’s helping defeat the very causes I espouse.

hops09
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 02:34 pm: [report]

@lareinedeslames
I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree here. Your response to my example is exactly my point. If I killed an innocent, no matter what the reason, it’s wrong. That person is dead, and the reasons I did it don’t change the result. How I would be sentenced in a court is completely irrelevant.
We are all adults, and we should all know right from wrong. Everyone has issues, but we all have a choice. “I can’t help myself” is not a valid reason. It’s a lack of self control. Using your example, you hurt others because you were afraid. You made the choice to even though you knew it was wrong. Actions are what count, not the reasons behind them. Don’t misconstrue this as a personal attack on you, it isn’t, but it is an attack on willingly bad behavior.
If I told an anorexic to go on a diet, it’s their choice to listen to me. The principle applies the same as your other examples. I’m not saying the choice is easy, in your examples, it is anything but. However, ultimately the individual is solely responsible for their own actions.
As others have said, the main issue with this article is that the author knows what she’s doing is terrible, but seems to have no intention of stopping, using the “I can’t help myself” excuse. If that is her way of dealing with it, in my book, she doesn’t deserve any of the respect or affection she’s received, and has earned the appropriate title for her behavior.

tk_2009
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 02:42 pm: [report]

@hops09: Hang on a second. It’s one thing to say people should be responsible for their actions, no matter what. True dat. However, that doesn’t mean they are in control of them, and I believe lareinedeslames has said both of these things. Self control does not figure into mental illness any more than it does into cancer. The irresponsible thing is not seeking help if you know you need it. It is extra responsible to admit you have a problem and have the courage to find a way to fix AND admit culpability for your actions. I think that lareinedeslames is saying that telling an anorexic to go on a diet is feeding fire with gasoline and is irresponsible on your part. Also, it is not our place to tell people what they deserve. Everyone deserves the best, it is a question of whether they earn it or not.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 02:43 pm: [report]

Funny, hops, because it sure seems like a personal attack to me. Just a little. It also demonstrates your lack of understanding of mental illnesses.

Generalized Anxiety Disorder has a symptom of inappropriate adrenaline responses. If my body’s chemistry is telling me to fight or flee, it is extremely hard for me not to react in one of those ways. I DO have self-control. I controlled my impulse to self-harm, I controlled my suicidal impulses (clearly, since I’m not a ghost. As far as I know).

By the way, if you knowingly told an anorexic to go on a diet, you’d get in some legal trouble. Handing a gun to a suicidal person is also a big legal no-no. I like how you addressed the anorexic example, but not the alcoholic example or the suicidal person example. Please, for the sake of anyone in your life who ever goes through a mental illness, read up. I’d hate to think of the advice you’ve given to any mentally ill friends or family members in your life.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 02:46 pm: [report]

Also, hops… my mother once justified beating me and breaking one of my favorite childhood toys against my back, saying that I “deserved it” for lying about my grades to her while she was trying to quit smoking. Does this mean you agree with her?

_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 03:59 pm: [report]

@hops09: I agree with what others have said in response, and I’ll add this:Your example (” If I killed an innocent, no matter what the reason, it’s wrong.”) is flawed as well. There are many ways to disprove it. Here’s one: I’m driving along. I pass a fenced-in yard. As I pass the fence, driving the speed limit, a three-year-old child runs across the street from behind the fence. I have no time to react and therefore hit and kill the child, who was innocent. I’ve done nothing wrong. It’s horrifically tragic, and an innocent was killed, but no wrong was done.

Also, as mentioned above, your assertion that “it’s a lack of self control” clearly demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of mental illness. You’d make a fine Scientologist with that attitude, though.

hops09
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 04:15 pm: [report]

Do I agree with the severity of the punishment you received? Absolutely not. But I do agree that lying to your mother was wrong and that it warranted a punishment.

And again, you seem to be missing the point. I’m talking about sane, rational thinking adults here. Are you saying that everyone who behaves in the manner the author writes about is mentally ill? And that all people who treat other poorly in that manner can’t help it.
If you’re actually mentally ill, fine. You get a free pass.

To the example of the car accident, sorry, it’s not the same thing, you didn’t purposely crash your car into a child. It was an accident. Pointing a gun at someone and intentionally shooting them is not. The author didn’t accidentally text-dump someone she supposedly had respect for. She knew what she was doing was wrong, but did it anyway. And in fact, continues to do it. So unless she’s mentally ill. There is no excuse for it and and anyone (or excuse me, “not mentally ill”) person who behaves in a similar fashion should be ashamed of themselves.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 04:33 pm: [report]

hops, I really hope you’re never in a position to deal with someone with a serious mental illness.

I think our basic difference in opinion is that you assume that anyone engaging in such behavior IS sane, rational, and completely in control. I think that the article implies at least a little neurosis. At the very least, the author has some issues to unpack.

I am also not saying that the mentally ill “get a free pass” or that they should. I’ve never been given a free pass, and I’ve had to swallow nails and go back to those people I’ve mistreated and ask their forgiveness. Some of them were very understanding, and some of them hated my guts, and will probably continue to do so. That is something I will have to deal with on my own. Note, if you please, I acknowledged my bad behavior and attempted to make amends.

Saying that someone is “undeserving” of love is only a few logical steps away from justifications of child abuse; the child misbehaves, and “deserves” punishment. It took me years to get the idea through my head that I did NOT deserve the abuse I was receiving.

jsw, you’re such a charmer! Thank goodness for people who actually understand that people with disordered thinking have no control, or very little control, over their disordered thoughts.

_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 04:45 pm: [report]

@hops09: It was a valid example because, as seems to be a consistent approach by you, you asserted an absolute: when an innocent dies, it’s always the result of a wrongdoing by someone. It’s not always that way. You also seem to similarly resolve all actions by adults into either ones which are done by someone who is mentally ill or ones done by someone who is sane and thinking rationally. In reality, all of us have issues of one sort or another (some of us more than others), and there are button-pushing events to which we each react (as opposed to respond).

@lareinedeslames: Thanks, but I wasn’t trying to be charming… just trying to be reasonable.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 04:54 pm: [report]

jsw, but don’t you know? The ability to reason clearly is so very charming to us crazy girls.

_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 04:59 pm: [report]

@lareinedeslames: Ah, it’s because opposites attract. If you’re also single, thin, and attractive, we’re a match made in heaven.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 05:02 pm: [report]

Two out of three? Single and attractive? :D

_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 05:04 pm: [report]

@lareinedeslames: I was more mocking myself than suggesting you’d need to be thin.

lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 05:07 pm: [report]

I know, jsw… and I just recalled a previous comment you made on another post—aren’t you a member of the IBTC? We wouldn’t work out too well, if so…*sigh* So close!

hops09
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 05:35 pm: [report]

This debate is obviously going nowhere. I thought my staements were clear but apparently, I have not specified nearly enough.
So, let me amend my statements to not apply to or include anyone who has a mental illness. My statements are meant only to those who are rational, not mentally ill, and are fully capable of differentiating between right and wrong and have complete control and knowledge of their actions and the subsequent consequences of those actions.
Also, let me amend my example of killing an innocent to only apply to those who in a right state of mind, intentionally, willfully, and purposely perform a murder.
I also retract the word “undeserving” as it is obviously a sensitive subject for some people. Although, as of right now I cannot think of a better word to replace it.

_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 05:49 pm: [report]

@lareinedeslames: I made a clarifying comment earlier today. I’m on a number of committees, the IBTC being just one of them.

@hops09: Within those constraints, I agree with you with the exception that sometimes innocent lives can me intentionally, willfully, and purposefully taken by someone in their proper state of mind without it being wrong. Sometimes, it’s necessary to prevent more lives from being lost.

Seantastic
wrote on September 1 2009 @ 12:52 am: [report]

My first thoughts were “I want to date you.”

I think there’s a set of guys who flock to this sort of individual and perhaps a type of guy ripe for rejection.

trex
wrote on September 5 2009 @ 07:45 pm: [report]

I think that if this article were written by a man, not nearly as many people would have assumed the behaviors were due to deep (and treatable) psychological issues- unless the author would have explicitly stated such a suspicion. :/

lareinedeslames
wrote on September 6 2009 @ 12:22 am: [report]

@trex: it wasn’t the fact that it was a woman. It was the fact that the post had this line:

“And the worst part is, though I occasionally consciously try to fix my behavioral patterns, it seems I’m borderline incapable of doing so.”

People who don’t have psychological issues find inconvenient and maladaptive behaviors much more possible to change. People with psychological issues have real trouble changing behaviors even when they know they are harmful.