Girl On Girl: Lesbians Can Have Sex, Trust Me
Posted by: Nikki Dowling
Filed in:
sex
11:00AM, Friday October 23rd 2009
I was recently in the car with a friend of mine, discussing my girlfriend and, I’ll admit, I was talking about my sex life. I don’t remember exactly what I said but I know it contained the phrase, “Then we had sex.” At this point my friend, a dude, took it upon himself to inform me that, “Lesbians can’t have sex.”
Rather than jam a tube of lipstick in his eye, I said, “Lesbians absolutely have sex.” We spent the rest of the car ride arguing about this, my friend repeatedly telling me to look up of the definition of sex in the dictionary. He was sure, he said, that it would contain the word “penis.”
Clenching my fists, I called him a misogynist and a whole slew of other names that would most certainly be bleeped out on prime-time television. But the truth is, I encounter this all the time because, for some reason, people—mainly dudes—think you need a penis to have sex. Two men can have sex, a man and a woman can do it, but two chicks … hell no! What we do is “foreplay,” “third base,” or “other stuff,” depending on who you ask.
This is hurtful and offensive for a whole bunch of reasons. First, I don’t think anyone has a right to label or judge what I do in bed with another consenting female. I will call it what I want and you will nod and smile because you aren’t the sex police, despite what the Halloween costumes in stores this time of year may suggest. Second, the idea that a penis must be involved in sex for it to “count” is very close-minded. Men don’t need to be up in everything, especially not my vajayjay. Also, what is this business with sex counting and not counting? I’m going to count my girl-on-girl action. What are you going to do, huh? Sneak into my room and sand those notches off my bedpost?
My third and biggest gripe with this whole craptastic idea is, for most people, including me, sex is an intimate and passionate experience. It’s an important and emotional part of my relationship. When someone tells me what I experience and feel isn’t real just because I don’t have a dong, it’s demeaning and it makes me sad.
If you still aren’t convinced, well, in the words of my friend, look it up! According our friends at Merriam-Webster, sex is defined as “intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis,” or, “intercourse that does not involve penetration of the vagina by the penis.”
In case you didn’t get that, sex has two definitions and one does not involve the word penis. If you still don’t believe me, I suggest you walk up to a lesbian couple on the street and tell them they are virgins. See what happens. I dare ya.
TheFrisky.com is part of the Turner Sports and Entertainment Digital Network
bogart4017
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:05 am: [report]
Do people really walk around this uneducated? Thank God for The Frisky!
MuchoMacho
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:09 am: [report]
i agree with everything she wrote. good article.
_jsw_
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:12 am: [report]
I count anything involving genitals, arousal and at least one other person touching the former in some way and being involved in the latter as sex.
Sexual intercourse involves a penis and a vagina, as far as I know, by definition. But there’s a lot more out there that’s sex that isn’t coitus.
_jsw_
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:15 am: [report]
Oh, wait, my bad. Sexual intercourse obviously doesn’t need to involve a penis. I think common perception of the phrase involves penises, but it certainly shouldn’t. Coitus, though, I’m pretty sure involves one penis and one vagina.
C.Munro
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:18 am: [report]
Whaddya mean lesbians don’t have sex. I’ve got a whole bunch of DVDs that prove otherwise.
Kati-Anne
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:19 am: [report]
I have a few close friends who are lesbians and they run into the same kind of attitude on a regular basis. I get asked how two girls have sex (with the implication that it’s not sex) a lot too by people who don’t have any lesbians in their life. It makes me think that their own sex lives must be hugely lacking in the creativity department… and that they should get it on with a girl and then try to tell me it’s not sex.
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:19 am: [report]
@jsw:
Alyssa Jones: F*cking is not limited to penetration, Banky. For me it describes any sex, when it’s not totally about love. I don’t love Kim, but I’ll f*ck her. I’m sure you don’t love every girl you sleep with.
Banky Edwards: Some of them I downright loathe.
MuchoMacho
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:26 am: [report]
@CMun - lol… I know a guy who knows a guy who has some of those too…
belligerentjane
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:34 am: [report]
it’s chasing amy all over again.
FrzKey
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:39 am: [report]
I’m so sorry but this had me cracking up and laughing in the office like an insane woman. I’m sure once I’m done laughing at this guy’s idiocy I’ll be royally pissed but for the moment I’m dumbfounded with mirth. Told my lesbian coworker and she proceeded to crack me up with additional dead pan humor.
My sides hurt, seriously, awesome.
cattgirl813
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:46 am: [report]
This argument you had with this guy made me think of an old saying: Never teach a pig to dance. It annoys you and frustrates the pig.
auburnmomma
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:50 am: [report]
“What are you going to do, huh? Sneak into my room and sand those notches off my bedpost?”
I just blew Gatorade out of my nose! Thanks for making my Friday lunch break entertaining.
Pinky
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 10:50 am: [report]
Blame your boy Bill Clinton after all he only considered PENILE penetration *real sex* and so began a whole movement on his coat tails.
Lexington
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 11:00 am: [report]
Um, oral sex has the word sex in the name, correct? So maybe that’s why I’ve always gotten the impression that it’s actual sex.
The only people who don’t want to believe that are 15 year olds who want to say they’re still virgins because they haven’t had ‘actual sex’.
I Go To 11
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 11:03 am: [report]
@ cheeeese: Dammit, you beat me to a “Chasing Amy” reference!
pdxgal
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 11:19 am: [report]
Goofy ideas about sex abound! I just dated a well endowed man who thought because he had a large penis he must be great in bed…um no, if that’s all you got, not so much. But I also had an argument with a lesbian friend that I likely couldn’t please a woman because I don’t know what turns them on…huh? What the heck am I? I know what I like, I think I could give it a shot if I was into chicks! People are just funny when it comes to ideas about sex.
Oreo
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 11:27 am: [report]
I’ve always looked at it like this:
Sex is not an action, it is a category or genre of action. Many different actions fall under the heading of sex, which includes all forms of intimate physical contact that takes place between one or more (yes, I count masturbation as a form of sex) individuals of any gender or orientation.
Sadly, there are still some cavemen out there who believe that sex is only sex if it has the possibility of producing offspring, and there are even more arrogant fools who believe that their penis is the keystone feature for sex to even be possible.
What can you do? It’s difficult to get angry at ignorance for the same reason that it’s difficult to be angry at the mentally challenged. Their brain simply is incapable of accepting new data. They’re working with outdated software and hardware that’s been upgraded to it’s maximum capacity. I pity them. There’s an entire world that they will live and die in without ever beginning to understand it.
Ginger
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 11:43 am: [report]
I can understand the people who ask HOW lesbians have sex (because they unimaginative minds) but saying that they can’t have sex is…well, you pretty much said what it is.
Besides, there is the term ‘sex acts’ which covers so many things other than a penis going into some sort of orifice. When you think about all of the things under that term anyone who is limiting themselves to just anal or vaginal (or even oral) sex isn’t just being close minded; they’re limiting their sex life too.
bethlynn00
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 11:52 am: [report]
Some people are so dense that it hurts me. What a horrible thing to have to defend! Sex is so much more that vaginal/anal penetration, and I think people who don’t know that are not/ have not had good sex. You can have some hottest sex without a penis entering any orifice of the body.
BedRocka
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 12:05 pm: [report]
Puppets play!
BedRocka
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 12:07 pm: [report]
Why soo Serriiioooooooouuuuuuusss!!
Molly Jean
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 12:08 pm: [report]
@ Oreo: the way you used “mentally challenged” was so very very offensive. especially when you are writing about how “cavemen” narrow-minded people are. i’m sure you meant well, but, wow, that was very hypocritical/offensive.
Ellis
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 12:17 pm: [report]
Clearly, the world revolves around penises… those of us who don’t have one or aren’t having sex with one hardly qualify as legitimate human beings.
Ugh. People.
spatula
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 12:22 pm: [report]
@Oreo: I agree with the sex as a category of activities thing. Well said!
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 12:43 pm: [report]
@Ellis: All a lesbian really needs is a deep dicking.
NomChompsky
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 12:45 pm: [report]
Ugh.
Your friend is absolutely right, in a sense. And you’re absolutely right, in a sense.
You’re both absolutely wrong though, for seriously arguing about what is essentially semantic (yes, I know that semantics play a huge role in oppression. From what you’ve provided, this was not the case with your friend).
From a biological standpoint, sex involves a penis and a vagina. From a cultural and/or emotional standpoint, the definition is clearly stretched to other activities may but by no means have to include vaginal penetration by penis. Hence their being two separate and (weirdly) contradictory definitions.
That being said, where people draw the line at sex varies widely from person to person. Some people consider oral sex sex. Some people consider handjobs as sex. It’s chicanery to accuse somebody of misogyny because they don’t share your notions.
In my not-quite humble opinion, there really wasn’t much of a need to argue or use expletives.
NomChompsky
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 12:46 pm: [report]
@ Oreo
That’s needlessly condescending. If you can’t understand why penile-vaginal sex occupies a special definition and a more important evolutionary peg in the sex spectrum, you’ve moved right from broad-minded to scatter-brained.
bethlynn00
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 01:00 pm: [report]
@NomChompsky: I think what you mean is that from a biological standpoint procreation involves a penis and a vagina, but procreation and sex are two different things. To procreate means to have vaginal intercourse for the purpose of creating a life. Sex is a variety of activities that stimulates a sexual response from the mind and body, it can include vaginal intercourse, anal intercourse, mutual masturbation, masturbation, toy play, role playing, fingering, fisting, cunnilingus, fellatio, and so on. I think that was the point of it being defined in the dictionary the way that it was, because there is sex for the purpose of procreation, which at one time was the only acceptable form of sex, but then there is sex that is just meant to fill a natural human desire and has nothing to do with creating life.
NomChompsky
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 01:08 pm: [report]
@Beth
All I meant was this: In the very narrowest definition of sex, it is confined to vaginal intercourse. In the very broadest kissing might be considered sex. Or an online conversation, even.
The definition is fairly tenuous, so being on one end of the spectrum does not per se make you a misogynist or worthy of scorn. If she had simply said, “I disagree, let’s get ice cream”, I wouldn’t be commenting (and there probably wouldn’t be a post). But purporting that having a different definition of a hazily defined word is the same as being brain-damaged or misogynist is not at all fair.
fallonthecity
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 01:11 pm: [report]
It’s not surprising that some men think you can’t have sex without the Critical Element, i.e. their penis. Fortunately, they’re wrong. Great post!
MuchoMacho
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 01:13 pm: [report]
i think working someones genitals is sex. whether you use your wang, you scissor (lol), your hand, mouth, toys, etc… lets put it in websters…
fallonthecity
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 01:13 pm: [report]
@NomChompsky: It’s different because they were discussing her life, not a hypothetical situation.
pragmatryst
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 01:18 pm: [report]
@Ellis: Clearly, the world revolves around penises… those of us who don’t have one or aren’t having sex with one hardly qualify as legitimate human beings.
Don’t despair, I hear sporogenesis can be a very emotionally satisfying experience between two consenting eukaryotes.
NomChompsky
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 01:30 pm: [report]
@Fall
True. I should have led with the fact that it was an incredibly stupid comment to make in the first place, because NOTHING good could come of it.
luckyviolinist
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 02:23 pm: [report]
Here’s a possible new def. for you:
Anything a person does to another person that could conceivably cause an orgasm is sex.
cooldad
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 04:02 pm: [report]
I think we need to hear from Bill Clinton on this one
lani13
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 04:38 pm: [report]
poking is sex?! sacre bleu!
draymond
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 05:56 pm: [report]
Guys who are saying this either:
1. Are having fun making you annoyed. (apparently with success)
2. Are playing a bit of sour-grapes. They can’t have you but it is you that are missing out because it isn’t the same.
Now there is a certain logic that for him, and even for the female half of a hetero couple, they might think that if they did what you did it wouldn’t count as completely having sex. It may be completely delusional, but they might think that.
But beyond that lesbian action is such a central component of guy porn that it certainly qualifies as something!
thenemilyreplied
wrote on October 23 2009 @ 09:17 pm: [report]
I don’t know guys, this is a tough one! I totally get and understand your aspect here but what is ‘sex’ differs from person to person, especially based on orientation. What constitutes ‘virginity’? As a straight individual I would not consider making out/fooling around/3rd base/whatever as losing ones virginity. But viewpoints on that would obviously change if you were a lesbian or a gay man. I think it’s more about the aspect of no holding back, going all the way. I am not sure here, but you aren’t either and you can’t make that judgment call for others.
Oreo
wrote on October 24 2009 @ 01:30 pm: [report]
Molly Jean: I’m not sure how I have, but I’m sorry that I offended you. Please know that I have spent the last few years of my life working towards a career in assisting individuals with intellectual disabilities, so there was no disrespect intended in my comparison.
Please explain to me why it occupies a “special definition.”
It seems to me that procreation and sex are two completely different things. While it is true that one has the potential of leading to the other, a person can engage in procreation without sex just as they can have sex without procreating.
Sperm and egg donors are not having sex despite the fact that are engaging in procreation. The doctor who implants the fertilized egg is not having sex with his patient despite the fact that he or she is engaging in procreation. A woman who has had a hysterectomy or a man who cannot produce viable sperm can engage in penis/vagina intercourse with no chance of procreation, but they’re still having sex.
Call it scatter brained if you like. Perhaps in less advanced and enlightened societies, it was believed that penis/vagina intercourse = sex, but I’d like to believe that dispelling this myth is just one of the many progressive steps that mankind has taken as a result of the civil rights movement.
ImDaMan
wrote on October 24 2009 @ 02:05 pm: [report]
sweet, lesbo talk !!!
Symian
wrote on October 24 2009 @ 06:46 pm: [report]
My goodness, I can’t believe this has to be broken down this way! Who cares what it’s called as long as it’s done in private between concenting adults? It’s like arguing about off-white, ecru, or eggshell, WHO CARES?!?
little kitty
wrote on October 24 2009 @ 08:04 pm: [report]
Nikki Dowling, I know your name attached to the article. But I don’t “know you, know you”... All I can say is I thank you. You not only provided me with the most amusing piece of writing I’ve come across in a dreadfuly long time. But you also put into words some very important ideas, emotions, and thoughts that I’ve never been able to express.
I only wish you could explain a few things to my ignorant intolerant mother who needs a tube of lip stick jammed into her eye and you to tell her a thing or two about… well just about everything pertaining to life, love, and sex.
Thank you for being so open and awesome! ^_^
xoxo,
Little Kitty
adamjs
wrote on October 24 2009 @ 11:45 pm: [report]
@Oreo: I think the intention was to point out the biological aspect of sexual intercourse for the purposes of procreation; which not only applies to humans but to other species who rely on this method to procreate.
As an aside: I want an update on the repercussions of anyone who has taken up Nikki’s challenge to walk up to a lesbian couple and tell them they’re virgins…
Rokkor
wrote on October 25 2009 @ 03:17 pm: [report]
I’d suggest telling your friend to Google “lesbian sex” the next time he’s near a computer. There he’ll find a few billion sites disagreeing with him on that issue.
NomChompsky
wrote on October 25 2009 @ 05:35 pm: [report]
@Oreo
Sex was originally defined in terms of procreation. Procreative sex is more important biologically than other sex, because it produces offspring. Your point about sperm-donors and hysterectomies is a nonsequiter; I’m not arguing that any of this isn’t sex. I’m not arguing that sex and procreation are mutually inclusive. My point is very simple, so I’ll drop it down:
Penis-in-vagina sex has both a biological and a social function, whereas other types can only lay claim to the latter.
The end. That’s why there are two defintions, and that’s why the procreative on is first and primary on wikipedia.
It has nothing to do with how enlightened you are. Congratulating yourself for calling oral/anal/manual sex sex and lumping it in with the civil rights movement is just masturbatory.
Oreo
wrote on October 26 2009 @ 04:38 pm: [report]
Granted, but “travel” was originally defined in terms of how far and fast your feet could get you. As times change, words change. I think few would argue that a bicycle, car, boat, wheelchair or airplane all fall under the heading of “travel” regardless of how the animal kingdom gets around.
The sexual revolution that in which women fought for true equality and homosexuals came out of the closet en mass for the first time since ancient Rome is a MASSIVE part of the civil rights movement. To dismiss this as “masturbatory” is both insulting and narrow minded.
NomChompsky
wrote on October 26 2009 @ 10:46 pm: [report]
I am most certainly not dismissing sexual equality as masturbatory.
I’m dismissing your insinuation that quibbling over semantics is in the same breath as people that actually had an impact.
Your travel analogy doesn’t really make any sense, because foot travel isn’t substantially more important than other sorts. Procreative sex is more important societally than nonprocreative sex. Period. Either you agree with that point, and there’s not much more to argue, or you don’t, and we’re not going to come to a middle ground.
Bermudaful
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 08:13 am: [report]
I don’t think it was your guy friend hating on Lesbian sex I think it was more of a jackass guy idea that if he doesn’t stick it in her vag it’s not sex and if it’s not sex then it’s not cheating
...
and somehow that dumbass idea got carried over in to the realm of lesbian sex not being “real sex” - which lets be honest if sex is counted by orgasms then I think lesbians are having a lot more “sex” than heterosexual women
tubbyhumptydance
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 08:53 pm: [report]
I think the common misconception is that classic lesbian on lesbian sex is primarily what most men would consider foreplay, extended over longer periods of time.
I can understand the instinct of males that are insecure to dismiss something they are immediately and unequivocally excluded from as something to be ridiculed or laughed at. It essentially means your ” friend” isn’t nearly as secure with your sexuality. He is most likely hanging out with you just so he can claim he has a ” lesbian friend” on the off hope of setting up something untoward.
Meg
wrote on October 28 2009 @ 12:55 am: [report]
What a douche!
Most women (hetero or lesbian) don’t need a penis to achieve an orgasm. And isn’t that the point of sex??
Meg
wrote on October 28 2009 @ 01:07 am: [report]
This brings up the question, ‘Can a female be raped by another female?’
I think the first question really brings to light some misconceptions that have been held by men (and others ignorant enough) for so long.
Do those misconceptions come from religious ideologies (like the Biblical concept that sex is only between a man and a woman and with only the act of coitus) or from cultural or social ideas? Where do people get this bs from?
Oh and thanks for the insightful and thought-provoking topic, Nikki!
catmcroy
wrote on October 28 2009 @ 06:19 pm: [report]
As a bi woman it makes me sad too. Hell half the time when my boyfriend and I have sex it doesn’t always lead to intercourse - it leads to us having a passionate, loving, satisfying experience that draws us closer together as a couple. Mmm yea…just like having sex with my ex-girlfriend (with or without the strapon).
FireballXL5
wrote on October 28 2009 @ 10:49 pm: [report]
My only comment is that if I think about “sex” in the same context as “making love” and sharing a special intimacy with someone you care deeply about - then no question, Yes with a capital Y. Good for them.
LOL on the DVD and google references. If you are into that (movies) a little bit of searching will find you some clips that are more than a little stimulating because of the passion and care. I can’t/won’t watch the standard boy/girl junk after that. Maybe thats some common guy thing…
babylaceface
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 11:53 pm: [report]
@luckyviolinist: “Here’s a possible new def. for you:
Anything a person does to another person that could conceivably cause an orgasm is sex.”
enough said :]
sparklestar
wrote on November 4 2009 @ 05:33 am: [report]
I have a stack of films which beg to disagree with your friend. Anyway, there are some good penis “substitutes” on the market nowadays.
I know I’d rather have one that vibrates…
iamozy
wrote on November 7 2009 @ 10:05 pm: [report]
I am a woman and decidedly not a misogynist, but I can see where people get confused about lesbian sex. I think that lesbians can have sex, but it’s not the same way for heterosexual couples. I mean, no matter what anyone says, they’d have a hard time convincing me that I had already lost my virginity before having vaginal intercourse with my boyfriend. But the difference is because heterosexual couples see actions like fingering as foreplay, and so they treat it as such - a prelude to the main show: sex. But in lesbian couples, it is treated much more weight and intimacy, which is why the same physical action can have different meanings in different relationships. that’s my take on it anyway.
Bendoverboyfriendplz?
wrote on November 9 2009 @ 02:36 am: [report]
This is just silly. You each have your own definition for what lesbians do, and that’s not going to change. At the end of the day does it matter? No, what matters is that he accepts you as a friend for who you are. There are worse things in the world to get bent out of shape about. As long as you and your lady friend(s) call it sex, then more power to you, it’s sex, who cares what others think. Also, ever though he might just be trying to get a rise out of you? I know with all my female friends I will disagree with them just to spin them up, because it’s quite hilarious how heated women get about the small things.