Chivalry Is Not Dead! Plus, It’s Free!
Posted by: Amelia McDonell-Parry
Filed in:
relationships
10:30AM, Friday March 27th 2009
It’s no secret that the women of The Frisky are obsessed with Patti Stanger from “The Millionaire Matchmaker.” But last night I found my devotion to her screed rise to a new level, as I found myself yelling at the screen, “Yes, Patti, YES! Preach sister!” Sure, I disagree that men and women should stick to traditional gender roles and hate her staunch anti-curly hair stance, but Patti’s got gems. I was cheering when she touted just how far a guy can get by showing a little chivalry. “Chivalry is free and it gets the girl.” Indeed, Patti, indeed. You see, my current dating situation—with Chicken Parm, for those taking notes—is kind of lacking in that area, and while he’s practically perfect in every other way, this has become a major stumbling block. Patti and I disagree a little about what kind of chivalry is really necessary and will get the girl (at least this girl)—Patti’s big into door opening and meal ordering, but I don’t care so much about that. After the jump, five chivalrous moves I think Patti and I would co-sign. Chicken Parm better take notes.
Note: Sometimes when a guy isn’t being chivalrous, he’s really just being a wimp, isn’t into you, and is blowing you off. However, other times he does really like you, but is being LAZY. Be confident in his feelings before having the following expectations. Because if you can safely conclude he’s probably blowing you off, you should get over his butt, fast. The lazy ones, on the other hand, can be changed, if you stand up for these five examples of chivalry.
1. TEXT BACK: I’m hardly a text message stalker, though after IM, it is my favorite method of communication. I expect a man to text me back, regardless of whether he is busy with work or watching a sports game. I don’t need an epic novel in reply, because chances are I was just sayin’ hi, but acknowledging my outreach is only fair. It’s rude not to. Exceptions are always made for dead batteries and emergencies, of course. Bad moods? You only get one or two passes for that. Don’t be a baby. Be a man. I’ll care about your bad mood when it isn’t affecting your gentlemanly treatment of me.
2. GIVE ADVANCE NOTICE: Not to steal a page from The Rules, but I like dates to be scheduled in advance. I’m a busy lady—I will make plans if I don’t hear from you. And if I don’t hear from a dude until the last minute, it makes me think that he thinks I’m sitting around, always ready to meet up with him. That pisses me off. The spur of the moment date is awesome in ADDITION, but it should not replace the practice of calling many days in advance and suggesting a day to hang out. I’m no sexist, however—I think women should instigate dates as well, as often, and with the same respect.
3. HAVE A PLAN: Whoever is “in charge” of that planned-in-advance-date, should actually MAKE a plan. Take charge, show you’ve thought about what might make a good time for the two of you. Hanging out and watching crap TV is fun sometimes, but it should not replace actually, you know, dating. That is not to say dates must be expensive. My last relationship (the ex-fiance) was great with the super pricey dinner dates, but was utterly uncreative when it came to anything else. Frankly, I’d much rather a fully-planned date of free or cheap activities than a $300 meal devoid of ingenuity, but I’m not getting either right now from ol’ Chicken Parm and it is getting OLD.
4. WEEKS AND WEEKENDS: Both are important. So are nights and days. Mix it up. If a guy only wants to hang out after 10pm at night on Wednesdays, you gotta wonder what the hell he’s doing during the day and evening (is he a vampire?) or on the weekends (dating someone who’s graduated to the next level of dating?).
5. LATENESS & RUDENESS, UNACCEPTABLE, ALMOST ALWAYS: Usually lateness can be prevented. Think about it. You wake up 30 minutes after your alarm went off. You hustle to get to work on time anyway don’t you? People you’re dating deserve the same respect and commitment. The occasional bit of lateness I can excuse and I’m always happy to hear an explanation, but reoccurring lateness is a sign that your kindness is being taken advantage of, that he is being lazy in the courtesy department, and is counting on your inclination to forgive and his charm to get him out of hot water. Forget that. If he’s usually late NOW, imagine how late he’ll be in six months, or in three years when you’re having a baby and have to drive yourself to the hospital because he forgot to check his watch.
Likewise, a chivalrous gentleman should always think about how his tone and his attitude might be taken, whether or not it reflects his intentions. When I’m busy at work, and someone IMs me or calls me to chat, I might be a little irritated that I’m being bothered, but I’m always courteous and polite in my response. “I’d love to chat with you about this, but I’m in the middle of something important at work. Can I call you later?” takes only about three more seconds to type than just, “Busy.”
At the end of the day, chivalry is about one thing—pulling your head out of your own “busy,” “over-worked, “moody” hiney for just a second to think about how your actions might be interpreted by the other person. If you care about them, tweaking your actions just the slightest bit so that it takes their feelings into account, is easy, worth the effort, and will pay off BIG TIME.
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laura
wrote on March 27 2009 @ 11:44 am: [report]
I think that maybe these things are mostly more courteous than chivalrous…i think of chivalry as taking it to the next level.
Jessica Bartlett
wrote on March 27 2009 @ 11:59 am: [report]
Agreed. I adore Patti Stanger because she cuts to the chase and calls a spade a spade (or a douchebag a douchebag, as the case may be). I think hers are lessons that women in general need to learn: Don’t accept bad behavior, don’t accept anything less than respect, and he should do simple, respectful things like call you the day after a first date to say he had fun. Anything else? Dump him. Or at least move your bullsh*t meter to Terror Alert Red.
But there’s one piece of advice I won’t be taking: Wearing platform stripper heels is what snags a man. WTF?
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on March 27 2009 @ 12:27 pm: [report]
@Laura: I agree, these are just being a decent human being.
I hold doors open, let ladies out of the elevator first, and I still don’t have a date. But I have a smile, so I guess I win…wooooo….win….(Defeated)
Lynn
wrote on March 27 2009 @ 12:57 pm: [report]
The only thing is - I wouldn’t expect a guy to text me back if he’s watching a sports game. I mean, I appreciate it, but if the tables are turned and he texts me while I’m in the middle of something, I don’t always text back right away. I guess I figure, if you’re just texting me, it’s not all that urgent.
flatline
wrote on March 27 2009 @ 03:31 pm: [report]
The texting thing drives me nuts, and the same applies to an IM conversation - if I say something that would generally require a response and there is none for 10 or 20 minutes, what the hell?! A simple “brb” would have sufficed.
And just a little editing pick:
“I’ll care about your bad mood when it isn’t effecting your gentlemanly treatment of me. “
Should be “affecting” I do believe.
Jamie Lee
wrote on March 28 2009 @ 07:33 am: [report]
chivalry is very important…i mean taking the extra step to show your girl that you care rocks…
i used to date someone (actually i eventually married him ugh) but he NEVER opened a door for me…actually he would often go through and just let the door shut in my face and something that drove me insane is he would always walk like a few steps ahead of me…i mean what is this..afghanistan!!?? And he would never introduce me to people so I was always standing there looking awkward…And the fact that he couldn’t make the effort to do little things like that actually were a very true reflection of the type of person he is which is thoughtless and SELFISH. Needless to say we are no longer married.
Lucky for me my new man is probably the most thoughtful and courteous men that I have ever met in my life. But I guess I knew what to look out for which is how I managed to find such a great guy
retro chic
wrote on March 28 2009 @ 08:33 am: [report]
Call it chivalry or whatever—it’s lube for me, and what also helps KEEP the girl. A few considerate well-placed gestures or words from the ol’BF can mean the difference between a mind-blowing night together and no sex at all.
retro chic
wrote on March 28 2009 @ 09:36 am: [report]
Amelia, is Mr. Parm unschooled in the gentlemanly arts, or places himself “above” them?
If it’s the stumbling block you claim, then his perfection is only in HIS mind. I had a situation like yours, but eventually had to reason to him that if he were a smart boy who expects to get what he wants, I’m giving him the keys to getting it. Not as a challenge, but a roadmap and win-win gift to us both. It was such a fundamental deal maker/breaker for me.
shannac02
wrote on March 28 2009 @ 05:08 pm: [report]
I LOVE LOVE LOVE this!!! I’m posting it to my facebook Immediately, if not sooner. It seems like guys (I won’t call them men) of my generation are completely blind to any kind of courtesy, much less chivalry. I think its very sad to see that with the advancement of women, Chivalry went down the tubes. I mean, I know we can now do the same jobs, but I don’t want to have to pay for dinner EVERY time…
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on March 28 2009 @ 09:58 pm: [report]
@Shannac02: You must be hanging around with the wrong sort of men then. I try to be chivalrous at least once a a day.
loveitlala
wrote on March 29 2009 @ 01:00 pm: [report]
I second retro chic. Asked my man to be more chivalrous on our 4th or so date and he got a little mad, but it worked and we’re still together. Yes, it was also a dealbreaker for me.
stelllathediver
wrote on March 29 2009 @ 04:13 pm: [report]
Amen sista! I don’t like not being texted back, but I HATE when guys want to make last minute plans all the time. And I have to say I’m a bit of a traditionalist in that I agree with Patti’s definition of chivalry, but I feel like this is the more modern version.
hawaiianpeach
wrote on March 29 2009 @ 11:12 pm: [report]
Chivalry…some men do it some don’t. But enough rejection and date night declines will demonstrate the need to return to the drawing board.
shannac02
wrote on March 30 2009 @ 06:50 am: [report]
@CheeeeEEEEse
It could be just the way I look… I feel that men are a lot quicker to jump on the Chivalry bandwagon when a hot chick is involved, rather than just any old girl…
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on March 30 2009 @ 08:03 am: [report]
@Shannac02: Your avatar is too pixilated, so I stand by what I said.
retro chic
wrote on March 30 2009 @ 08:44 am: [report]
What I haven’t seen here, but seem to recall of Patti, is the emphasis on the *huh hmm* personal phone call. In the early stages esp, to show that he’s going above and beyond to connect, be spontaneous and vulnerable in the give-and-take in the ol’ art of the convo. That takes more nerve and honesty and without benefit of editing before the Send key is hit. That separates men & boys. I like texting as a convenient enhancer, a bridge of continuity when calling is not possible. If it isn’t important enough for a call, it probably isn’t worth a text either. It is not a replacement, and doesn’t remotely fall into the category of chivalry (only courtesy) to me.
EastCoastMale
wrote on April 1 2009 @ 09:44 am: [report]
ugh…as a male, some things on this list make sense and should apply to both males and females, like being late or rude. I am glad that the author pointed out the same respect should be used when giving advanced notice to someone whether they are male or female, its nice for anyone. When it comes to having a plan, whoever suggests the idea should have it planned out, especially when it comes to a scenario that I am sure we have all faced “what/where do you want to eat”. If I ask a woman where she wants to eat and she says “I dont care” then I will throw out a suggestions, if she shoots it down its then on her to decide, I am not a mall kiosk to browse through local restaurants as I spout them off to you and then vote on. If a guys asks you out on a date, he should plan….if yous say lets go here and do this it is only fair that you have some sort of plan in the works as well.
To the texting back and weekdays and nights, texting to “just say hi” it cute every once in a while but if you are looking to start a conversation or segway into something else, you amy have to go out on a limb and be more engaging rather than relying on a guy to be the one to do so. Some like to text rather than call because it is more safe and guards them against rejection or embarassment but if you truly want a response each and every time to a text, there has to be some substance in my opinion. As for the week days and nights, maybe he is just busy or prefers that day of the week to other days…assuming he is dating someone else is jumping the gun a point and seems a tad paranoid.
EnlightenMe
wrote on April 2 2009 @ 12:57 am: [report]
Got to give EastCoastMale some credit here for his thoughts. The girl that I am going after right now (and semi-dating) is just not so responsive to much of what I say. I really like her as a person and love getting to know her more, but sometimes it is just so darn hard to get her to talk, and I looooove talking. I do know that she likes me though, she’s told me that she feels this way so I am not just guessing, it’s still just a little frustrating to have that kind of absence of discussion.
As far as chivalry goes, my friends and I open doors for each other all the time, be they ladies or gents, it’s just what we do at our college. Actually seeing somebody the other day just let a door close in somebody else’s face got me a little angry, it takes hardly anything at all to just hold the door and let somebody else walk through, you know? Also with the whole texting response idea, I HATE it when people don’t respond, it’s like, at least let me know that you can’t come to dinner at the time we suggested so we know you won’t be there.
Agree with the planning idea, it’s nice to know or at least have a rough sketch of what’s going to happen. Usually though, my friends and/or dates are spontaneous enough that we just come up with things on the fly and change plans, it’s not really that big of a deal to us and kind of makes life a little more interesting.
My basic rule with women (or anybody for that matter) is just to be myself and be honest and have a good time. I’ve found that women enjoy being around a guy who has a sense of humor and who can laugh at themselves, especially one who can carry a conversation about multiple topics. The thing that drives me the most in a relationship is whether or not I connect mentally with the woman that I am with, physical attributes help, but mostly play a secondary role.
One Big Voice
wrote on April 2 2009 @ 11:35 am: [report]
A girl tried to text me recently. I guess it was terribly rude/unchivalrous of me not to reply. In my defense, she texted my home phone
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on April 2 2009 @ 11:40 am: [report]
Oh funny story, I know a guy who just turned 60, and he got a text from a girl who said “I’m legal”, they went on to text back and forth for the duration of the afternoon.
Davids turn
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 06:50 pm: [report]
It wasn’t very long ago that women demanded to be treated equally, and consequently they refused any kind of chivalry as they considered it to be demeaning. I can tell you that having a “chivalous” act thrown back in your face by someone you are wanting to get to know is both embarrassing and hurtful. And I can also tell you that there are still a lot of these women around that are ruining it for the rest of you.
Personally, I think what women want…and men too…is to feel special. I believe the best way to let a woman know this is to show I value her as an equal human being. I take an interest in her life, and I listen intently to what she says, and I also ask questions about how she thinks and feels about things. And if she laughs at my corny jokes…well…then I know it’s safe to do those little things that lets her know she’s special to me.
Davids turn
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 08:06 pm: [report]
uberkin…because listening and acceptance leads to real intimacy…and to sharing real love. Sex is a lot better that way too. Hopefully one day you will find out what I am talking about.
PotteryGirl
wrote on September 23 2009 @ 08:37 pm: [report]
@Davids turn - don’t feed the trolls! uberkin is an idiot and has already been reported.
CJ1432
wrote on September 24 2009 @ 01:08 am: [report]
Most (if not all) should apply to friendships and relationships. And I’m not a big texter, especially when it takes 20 min to text back and forth and can be said in a min and 1/2 conversation. I dont check my phone every 2 min. If its important leave a voice mail. I’ll check for that first instead of sorting thru the 50 new texts i’ve recieved that day. Hell, even if it’s not important a voice mail is better than a “what’s up?” text and then getting pissed cuz i havent gotten back to you right away
darylh
wrote on November 11 2009 @ 12:05 pm: [report]
No, chivalry may not be dead, but it’s obviously now under attack like every other aspect of a man’s actions. In general, it seems to be the same old theme; your actions toward me as a woman are actually insulting and demeaning. Stop unless I tell you it’s okay.
Well as a man who was raised a gentleman, I don’t consider my actions to be chivalrous, just what I thought were good manners. So I’ll stop those behaviors when women stop using my napkin to wipe my mouth rather than tell me I need to use it, or yanking on my shirt tail because you think it’s tucked in too tight, or get pissed off over something but refusing to talk about it as a means of emotional bondage, or come into my home and declare that I need to update, re-arrange or otherwise alter my tastes in home decoration, or tell me that I should be more frugal with my money while you’re sporting Dooney & Burke or other ridiulously priced accessories and clothing, or demanding that I stop participating in sportsman activities as you’re on your way “out with the girls,” or tell me that you need your space and then call me every ten minutes on my cell phone to say “so what are you up to,” or be ready at the drop of a hat to go to a movie that’s chock full of romance and drama only to come down with a headache when I want to see an action movie, or constantly make plans for us to visit your family every year while simultanously making complaints about having to visit my family, or telling me to lift the toilet seat while telling me to take out the trash in the bathroom which consists entirely of your q-tips and kleenex and hair dye gloves, or just plain thinking that my constant attempts to be a gentleman in the best way I know how as alternatively just an attempt to insult or otherwise manipulate you.
It’s the reason I’m not married; because as soon as the complaints begin to canvas my lifestyle, I just pull the plug and start over with someone else. If women are now going to proclaim that our manners are just another defective component, then I think it’s women who need to untuck their heads from their hineys. It’ll make them easier to spot so we can avoid all the foreplay leading up to total dissatisfaction.
Daryl
Davids turn
wrote on November 11 2009 @ 05:34 pm: [report]
Daryl…well stated. You speak of a fairly large segment of women today. I believe what a lot of it comes down to is that most women simply aren’t happy and/or self-content, and they believe that if “we guys” just did something…like be chivalrous…they would somehow find happiness.
This article is a prime example. Now women WANT chivalry from us…and what seems to be understood by them and written between the lines here…is that this is “the latest thing” that will make them happy now. Next week they will want something else because they think that will make them happy. The following week it will be something else. Then they will BLAME us because we aren’t doing the right thing…as though it is our inherent responsibility to somehow make them happy. In the process they constantly “proclaim that something about us is defective” (because we failed to make them happy). The overall process is still the same though…we should somehow be able to read their [whimsical] minds to know what will make them happy…and then we should do it.
Most women don’t know enough about themselves to know that true happiness comes from within, thus they look outside themselves instead. The “women seeking men” ads are a good example. When did you ever see an ad where a woman says “she is happy doing almost anything, and is simply looking for someone to share these experiences with?” You don’t. What you find are women who make a whole list of pricey things they want to do…trips, dinners, concerts, plays…you name it…and they expect you to make this non-stop menu of immediate gratification happen for them…as though this will make them happy.
I’ve found that those who have looked within and have come to accept themselves are the happiest…and also the most accepting of me and the things I’ve found that make me happy. (The ones that complain about your activities are actually trying to take your happiness away from you, because if they aren’t happy, they aren’t going to let you be either.) The ones that have dared look within are also the ones that stop trying to manipulate the world…and me…into trying to somehow make them happy.
So…when I meet someone new, the first thing I try to do is find out how intrinsically happy they are? If they are fundamentally unhappy, it’s a good bet they will stay that way, and there is nothing I will be able to do about it. It is also a good bet that if I stay around they will make my life miserable. ‘Time to move on and find a woman who knows herself well enough to have a meaningful conversation, and appreciates and accepts…rather than judges…the things I like do for her.