Facials: Are They Demeaning?
Posted by: Jessica Wakeman
Filed in:
sex
12:00PM, Friday August 21st 2009
It’s called the money shot. In straight porn it involves the male giving the female what is euphemistically called “a facial.” (Not the kind from Bliss Spa.) In some porn films, the facial is played up to emphasize his humiliation of and domination of her, but in other porn flicks, the money shot is just something the actors do. In real life, I suspect facials happen more for pleasure than for humiliation, seeing as women have a little thing called self-respect. But when I recently mentioned facials in my 10 Things Women Forget To Do During Sex piece, a hootenanny of condemnation—and defense—broke out in the comments section of that post.
Leaving facials up to the porn stars—actors who are making the facial appear to humiliate the woman—is what keeps it looking demeaning.
Our commenters, whom I just love to pieces, are really split on the facial issue! Many called it “degrading” and some called it “gross.” QueenFrostine summed the facial opponents’ p.o.v. most succinctly when she wrote:
“I am a person and I require respect. Hitting, punching, spitting and ejaculating on a person’s face is an act of dominance and a way of lessening that person’s worth. It’s saying (to me) that I am inferior and worthless. I am not some object to which you can spray in the face like you’re marking territory.”
Roastchicken agreed and added, “Leave that up to the porn stars to take a load in the face. Hell no.”
I see those commenters’ points, but I have to respectfully disagree with ‘em. I think leaving facials up to the porn stars—actors who are making the facial appear to humiliate the woman—is what keeps it looking demeaning. Certainly some facials are depicted in porn as humiliating or degrading, but not every man who wants to give a facial wants it to degrade and humiliate just like it looks onscreen. Many do love and respect their partners, and know, to varying degrees, that porn isn’t real. Likewise, some of those female partners enjoy the act as well. As commenter Alexa put it:
“Personally, I am much more concerned with his attitude toward me outside the bedroom — if he’s respecting, egalitarian, and treats me like someone he’s in love with and all that, if he wants to [ejaculate] on me somewhere, then I fail to see how that even remotely denigrates or invalidates the intimacy or ‘normalcy’ of our relationship.”
Interestingly enough, the commenter I agree with most on the facial issue was actually written by a man who called himself tonykuehn. He wrote:
“Degradation and insult are a matter of perspective, I think. If you’re not into something and your partner does it anyway (no matter what it is), that is definitely degrading and insulting, not to mention disrespectful. I think the ‘money shot’ fetish for many men is simply the strong visual stimulus… I wasn’t into it (or so I thought) until my wife suggested it and now, hooo boy. But, again, it’s something we both enjoy, partially just because of the thrill we get from being so naughty. But that’s sex, eh?”
Exactly! Personally, I don’t think facials are a big deal because I enjoy something else in bed that could look like it’s very demeaning. When I told my (ex-) therapist about my spanking fetish, she tried to talk me out of it because she thought it indicated I had psychological issues related to wanting to be hit. Maybe I thought I was “bad” or that sex was “bad” or the spanking was actually domestic abuse? Nope! I just like to be dominated in bed, and that’s it. It’s safe, consensual and it turns me on like you wouldn’t believe! Same thing with facials. I don’t see it so much as a problem of gender roles (though it can look that way from porn) as it’s a biological issue: He can give me a facial and I can’t give him one. He gets me all over his face sometimes in a different way, but who is to say that I wouldn’t want to give him a facial if we women had the equipment, right?
Different strokes for different folks, everyone.
TheFrisky.com is part of the Turner Sports and Entertainment Digital Network
tabby
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:07 am: [report]
I had sent my S.O. the previous article mentioned and he said “Can I maybe do it on your boobs sometimes?” To which I replied “Just so long as there is no way in hell it gets in my hair!” My major beef with this sex act is not about whether it is degrading or not (since my S.O. is always respectful), but because that stuff turns into cement and is like trying to get bubble gum out of your hair.
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:16 am: [report]
Facials ur doin’ it rong.
Ala iStockphoto.
Mags
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:21 am: [report]
I loved reading all the posts on it! You have the best readers EVER! Funny how this is the issue that pushed so many buttons. I just perfer that my navel ring not get encrusted, so futher north is my target of preference. Understand the hair comment though, what a bitch!
spatula
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:23 am: [report]
I pretty much exactly agree with you, Jessica!! I just don’t think that an actual physical ACT can be demeaning-it is the intentions and emotions behind said act that make it an act of degradation, or one of love (lust?). So, IMO, a guy giving me a face shot is only degrading if he does it because he wants to humiliate and degrade me.
Conversely, if my SO busts on my face because he thinks it’s the hottest thing ever (he does), and I don’t mind (I don’t), then it’s not degrading. To anyone.
brandyalexander
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:26 am: [report]
The thing nobody mentioned is how funny it is afterward. I mean, you look ridiculous. The only times I have ever done this I have cracked up laughing at myself.
writergirl
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:45 am: [report]
I have to agree with you and everybody else. It is only degrading when YOU think it is degrading or your SO does “it” whatever it may be after you expressly tell him no.
*sam*
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:46 am: [report]
@brandy: HAHAHA!!! oh, that is SO true!!!! I remember one time w/ my first serious bf, he got the idea to get an old hand towel, cut a hole in the center, and draw a target around it, and then put it over my face… the whole situation was so completely ridiculous that neither of us could stop laughing to actually carry it out. and even when my current bf does it, we end up cracking up afterward b/c I have to lay perfectly still while he runs to get a washcloth lest it starts to drip all over the bed!!
brandyalexander
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:57 am: [report]
SAM: a target? woah. sooo gross, so funny. i mean, i see how its kinda hot one second, but then its like, what did we just do? ewwww! get me a washcloth! then we both die laughing. i can’t imagine it any other way.
brandyalexander
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:59 am: [report]
but didn’t i just read something on here about sperm being really good for your skin? i know i did… maybe we should rub that stuff in, lol.
sadie
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 12:06 pm: [report]
Actually, some girls CAN give guys facials, if they’re “squirters”. I wonder if the “facials are demeaning” crowd thinks it’s wrong for women to do it to men.
I agree w/tonykuehn. Degrading is a matter of perspective. Plus, some people want to be degraded in bed. Anyone seen Secretary?
bogart4017
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 12:23 pm: [report]
One subject that hasnt been adddressed that i thought of. While i’ve been one to shoot at my SO the subject once came up and she said something like this. She would feel cheated if she could not receive me inside of her. She said it would feel like the act was incomplete. I started wondering then how many other women felt that feeling their mate ejaculate inside of them was just as important as their sexual satisfaction.
brandyalexander
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 12:28 pm: [report]
Bogart4017… completely agree with your girlfriend
fallonthecity
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 12:28 pm: [report]
I think you hit the nail on the head with this, Jessica. Also, @tabby: totally agree. Nothing ruins an otherwise good night like having to shampoo your hair seventeen times to get that stuff out.
spatula
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 12:30 pm: [report]
@brandyalexander, i read about that somewhere else. Some male journalist got an ACTUAL facial (as in, done by an esthetician) with sperm at some salon in NYC. His article contained virtually no information, though.
majicksand
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 12:37 pm: [report]
Sorry guys. Degrading or otherwise… ewww. No thanks. I’m pretty open-minded but facials are definitely NOT for me.
I Go To 11
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 12:41 pm: [report]
Not my cup of tea. It’s too messy.
Besides, I like to dominate in the bedroom; submission just isn’t my thang. :D
skywalk
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 12:52 pm: [report]
@bogart4017: I’ve been with my husband 10+ years and he has NEVER cummed inside of me and I don’t feel cheated. I really can’t use birth control pills, he likes using a condoms it works. We don’t want to have kids and I think it is his way of ensuring we don’t, plus he is a clean freak - trust me we have dirty sex, but likes not making a mess with his cum.
Alexa
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 01:31 pm: [report]
I agree with Spatula - if the act is consensual and both are up for it, it can’t possible be demeaning or degrading. If one person isn’t up for it, then there can be issues.
Lynn
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 01:33 pm: [report]
@bogart4017 - eh, actually usually BF finishes outside of me. It’s sort of a rare treat to finish inside of me. I’m on the pill but we do still use spermacide when he’s going to cum inside me, and we can’t use that every day or we’d both get irritated! But before we came up with the spermacide idea…we were banging for about a year and a half and he hadn’t cum inside of me once. Eh, maybe we’re weird.
@tabby - I don’t know what your guy is eating, because for me showers usually do the trick! If I’m not planning on washing my hair that day, I get ticked if it gets in there because then I do have to wash my hair anyway, but on days I do plan on washing my hair it’s a free-for-all because I have never had a problem getting it out!
Alexa
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 01:35 pm: [report]
I’ll jump in with Lynn on this as well. I’ve never had to wash my hair more than once to get the semen out of it (well, except for one time that involved more than one gentleman). Maybe you guys need to explore using a better quality shampoo! lol
*sam*
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 01:59 pm: [report]
@bogart4017: no, I agree with your gf. glad to know I’m no the only one!!! though, IDK if I’d call it ‘incomplete’ when my bf doesn’t cum inside of me, but, it does let me down a little on the inside—I just like the intimacy of the act I suppose.
Shasta
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 02:00 pm: [report]
@Bogart - I was wondering the same; however, about the GUY.
I was under the impression that pulling out sucks for the man and ruins the experience, so I can understand a facial for novelty sake, but as an ongoing thing?
Titania
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 02:23 pm: [report]
I agree with you Jessica, I am also one of those who gets thrills from being dominated in sex.
IrishErin
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 02:23 pm: [report]
This is something I’ve actually been thinking about a lot lately. I have been with my bf for 3 years and he’s wonderful. We have a very healthy, balanced, equal relationship in all areas and we respect the hell out of each other. But for some reason, I think being able to cum on my face would literally fulfill maybe his ultimate fantasy (or at least so far as he’s been willing to openly share with me).
He is a major oral fan so I spend a lot of time tending to that for him. Formerly I focused on swallowing, but after he mentioned his thoughts on facials I thought maybe I’d baby-step into it (my gut reaction was also along the lines of “gross,” “degrading” and “messy”) by letting him cum on my boobs. That pretty much made his day, so it’s become a part of our arsenal. But even when that happens it gets everywhere and I pretty immediately want to wipe down. I couldn’t imagine keeping a straight face if it was dripping all over said face. I mean, how is that sexy? I can’t see it. But I want to try and buck up and try it for him at least once. It’s just a lot to mentally get over for me.
(Sidenote: cum in the hair is so lame. I was giving him a quickie bj one morning before we were meeting his parents for brunch - my first time meeting them - and I got sort of choked up right before he came and I was afraid I’d gag really hard, so he pulled out…and came ALL over my hair. I didn’t even have time to get in the shower. I just tried to rinse it out in the sink, the whole time screaming “oh my god! your mother! what were you thinking! i’m going to strangle you!”)
Saridactyl
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 02:25 pm: [report]
I agree with Alexa, I just cannot see how it’s degrading. I myself have never gotten a facial, nor am I sure that I really want to. (I go back and forth) It’s one thing to not be sexually aroused by the thought of a guy cumming on your face, but many women are. So are many men. If that’s not you’re thing, then fine. It’s all good.
To each their own, I always say.
Shasta
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 02:38 pm: [report]
If that’s all it takes to fulfill a fantasy, why not. Some guys want a threesome! He will be putty in your hands forever, particularly if he knows you’re not crazy about the idea but will relent because you love him.
We ask our guys to do things they find embarrassing (buy tampons) but they doit because they love us. I see this as analogous - kinda sorta not exactly.
But ultimately it’s whatever feels comfortable.
Alexa
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 02:51 pm: [report]
Let me also clarify the comment of mine that was quoted in the story, since it was taken out of context. The point of that statement was that I think you have to look at how the guy treats you as a human being, not just in the bedroom but in your private life as well. If he treats you like #&@$% and then wants to jerk off on your face, clearly that has some malicious intent (degradation) to it. But if he respects you, treats you as an equal, and so forth, you simply have a higher threshold to climb to make a rational argument that a facial is “degrading” or “demeaning.”
I’ve done a good bit of research and writing on this topic (I know that probably doesn’t surprise some of you! lol). A blog entry is here for those who wish to read it:
http://www.realprincessdiaries.com/2008/07/facials/
I’ve had conversations with other women about this whole subject, and quite honestly I see a lot more women into receiving facials and their husbands/BFs not into it than the other way around. I am seriously giving consideration to writing my Master’s Thesis on “The Facial Ejaculation as Empowerment for Women,” just to see if I can make that argument and sustain it (I’m a masters candidate in Human Sexuality Studies, btw - that topic would easily work for a thesis in my program! lol)
spanishbutterfly
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 03:02 pm: [report]
lol u guys are hella funny…. im not a fan of facials, i dont find them degrading im just not comfortable with it. My body is an open target aim anywhere u like expect my face.
I did once get a facial in the eye. It was an accident omg it felt like i had a pound of nut in my eye, i didnt move and i was scared to open my eye. We both laughed about it, but thats def not something i want to happen again.
icecreamcone
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 04:15 pm: [report]
When I go down on a woman, I get a serious facial. Not that I mind, but I do end up like a glazed ham and there is often some serious cleanup required (see Paul Simon, “Cecilia”).
Would the women who veto facials feel it’s reasonable for men to deny them oral?
Or is there a fundamental difference between a man getting his face covered in liquid from a woman’s genitals, and a woman getting her face covered in liquid from a man’s genitals?
calenia
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 04:35 pm: [report]
No sale. The act of ejaculating on your partner’s face is degrading regardless of whether you enjoy it or not.
Alexa
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 04:36 pm: [report]
@Calenia, you don’t get to decide what is or is not degrading for anyone else, sweetie.
Lynn
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 05:24 pm: [report]
@IrishErin - I just keep a towel handy. It’s not hard because my bed is right next to the towel rack, but if there’s not a towel around I just flip over and use the bedsheet. I won’t open my eyes until I’ve wiped it all off because I got it in there once - NEVER AGAIN! Also, I would shoot my BF if I came in my hair right before meeting his parents! OMG!
Mags
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 05:31 pm: [report]
Come on Calenia, we all know it isn’t one size(type, or style) fits all here!
IrishErin
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 05:46 pm: [report]
@Lynn Yeah, I think I’ll just have to go with the “keep a towel handy” route. I figure I should at least try it. I’m not morally opposed to it, it just doesn’t turn me on. But turning him on DOES turn me on, so ya know. Yeah, he totally didn’t intentionally cum in my hair before parental brunch. He was horrified until I started crying/screaming and then he just couldn’t stop laughing. The situation was straight out of some bad sitcom. We laugh about it now but at the moment I was dying. I had bright magenta hair back then and I was already worried they’d hate me for that (and my tattoos etc.) and think I was corrupting their sweet boy (he looks WAY young - like a blonde cherub). So spotting some of their son’s genetic material in my “unnatural” locks over a plate of eggs benedict probably would not have been the best of introductions (don’t worry - they love me now…haha).
LostInStars
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 08:16 pm: [report]
I let the current boyfriend do it once and I happened to have dry lips at the time, and it must have got in the cracks of my lips because it totally dried them out and I walked around looking like I had a botox shot in my mouth. Haha.
But, as for whether or not it’s degrading? I don’t think so. He likes it, and I like it when he’s turned on, the same way he does things that -I- like because he likes to see me turned up. I don’t think sex with someone you love and care about can really be degrading. It’s lovin’ in the name of love. If you really don’t like something, don’t do it, but I think it’s going a little far to say it’s on par with abusing a girl.
catscratchfever
wrote on August 21 2009 @ 11:28 pm: [report]
It’s possible that my fear of facials is a direct result of this scene from Jurassic Park: http://www.movieweb.com/video/HUj4IrklpiHFmp
ARealGuy4Ever
wrote on August 22 2009 @ 12:31 am: [report]
Personally I always like to finish inside. I just think it feels better for me and her. Even got snipped once I had my two kids to take the pregnancy concern off the table (of course new/untested partners still mean suiting up).
But I did have one gf that liked me to finish on her chest once in a while because she liked to see how “excited” she made me. As others have said it’s about personal preference, comfort, and attitude.
william.paul
wrote on August 22 2009 @ 10:00 am: [report]
@sadie, Ironically, as much as I don’t like giving a girl a facial, I love it when a girl squirts.
reddeb
wrote on August 22 2009 @ 11:15 pm: [report]
I, myself have never considered it demeaning although I think my previous lover had a difficult time believing me that I wanted it. I love it. I love having a front row seat to seeing a man cum. I don’t care if it gets in my hair, I don’t care where it gets. I’m never in a big hurry to clean up, either. What’s the hurry? Sex is sloppy. Part of the fun.
I happen to be a squirter and did have the recent experience of giving a guy a facial. Actually got him in the eyes as well. He did not find it demeaning at all.
pryce2
wrote on August 22 2009 @ 11:37 pm: [report]
@ icecreamcone, There’s a big difference from general wetness and actual ejaculate. When you’re giving a blow job, you get spit and pre-ejaculate all over your mouth area. That’s just part of the deal, and I’ll take that willingly and without any sort of complaint. The actual jizz in the face—up my nose and in my eyes? Kind of a different story.
Whenever I think of facials, my mind immediately goes to frat-boy stories about finishing on a girl’s face so you can high-five your buddies later and laugh at her indignation. Whatever—if it’s something my SO wants, why not do it for him? But someone I don’t know very well should neither ask for it or attempt it.
draymond
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 01:59 am: [report]
To discuss the reality of facials outside of porn stars is a bit of an absurdity since facials are entirely an artifact of pornography. They were invented by porn directors to finish a scene with something that the camera could easily record. Face it, (pun intended) if it was even remotely more enjoyable for a man to finish sex by withdrawing, standing aside jerking off, and making no further contact with his mate than his sperm flying across the air to her body the human race would have gone extinct a long time ago. And from a physical standpoint what is the woman supposed to find enjoyable with having the man cease all contact with her erogenous zones until his sperm comes flying across the air?
If a man wants to finish with a facial the only reason is that he is engaging in a fantasy of being like a porn star and if the woman goes along it is because either she is a good sport or is also having a porn star fantasy. Not that there is anything wrong with having a porn star fantasy, male or female, but don’t talk about facials outside of porn.
Isista
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 03:18 am: [report]
I may be in a minority here, but I like facials. I mean, I don’t like the *all the time*, but I’ve never once felt degraded or humiliated or even submissive during them. Ever. My boyfriend treats me with respect and would never do anything that I didn’t want to do.
Oh, and @ calenia: I agree with someone else that commented on your post; no one else gets to tell me what I should find demeaning or degrading. You’re not me, so therefore keep your feelings on the subject matter limited to your own actions. Making a blanket statement saying they are always demeaning is simply simple-minded.
Isista
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 03:20 am: [report]
@draymond: Well, I can’t speak for everyone, but I personally like semen, and I like being able to see my boyfriend getting pleasure. Again, making blanket statements like yours is very limited and oftentimes incorrect, because you can’t speak for everyone.
Alexa
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 07:53 am: [report]
@draymond, you have such a narrow understanding/appreciation for sex and the sex act. It almost seems as if you believe sex should be a penis-in-vagina until completion kind of thing, lest anyone enjoy some of the myriad of sex acts that are possible.
And, for the record, the facial was not “invented” by porn directors. It existed long before porn showed it to anyone. Someone in this thread or the other one made the point that his wife was enjoying facials 20-something years ago (the facial didn’t become de rigeur until the 1990s).
lookitsliz
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 01:24 pm: [report]
I couldn’t agree with you more, Jessica.
I’m always a little timid to even bring the topic up with some of my friends (or even men that I date for that matter) because there’s such a stigma that goes along with it.
But every single point you made makes complete sense. If two people are enjoying something for similar reasons, then I really don’t see the point in anyone taking such offense.
roastchicken
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 01:44 pm: [report]
Do I *personally* find it degrading? Yes. I’m not speaking for every woman, just for myself. I’m just not that into having a guy ejaculate on my face. End of story.
@ bogart: “..how many other women felt that feeling their mate ejaculate inside of them was just as important as their sexual satisfaction.”
I’m definitely one of those women
bumbler
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 02:56 pm: [report]
For me personally it depends on the context of the act for both parties. I would only be comfortable with it if I were confident in the fact that my partner truly respected me sexually and otherwise. I perfectly understand the women who enjoy it and those who find it completely degrading. What upset me most about the other comment thread was the lack of respect for others boundaries. I am particularly sensitive to sex-shaming among women, especially the idea that if you do not do one particular act you are a wet blanket and it’s no wonder your men cheat on you. I don’t like the idea of pressuring people to cross sexual boundaries they’re not comfortable with by using the pathetic high school ploy of “all the cool kids are doing it” peer pressure. /rant over
Alexa
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 03:11 pm: [report]
@roastchicken, just out of curiosity, *why* do you find it degrading? There’s a difference between “not being into it” and finding it degrading, so I’m curious as to why you believe it is, if you don’t mind sharing.
roastchicken
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 03:58 pm: [report]
@ Alexa: Actually I *do* mind sharing. I don’t have to explain any of my personal views or opinions to anyone. I try not to dissect each and every word or phrase that someone states on this website. That doesn’t mean that either side is ‘wrong’ in the matter just because we don’t agree. Everyone is entitled to their own views, and our differences are what makes us unique and human.
Seriously, I’m not trying to be rude at all, but this is exactly the reason why I said that I wasn’t speaking for anyone else.
It’s just like Jessica said, “Different strokes for different folks.” And I’d like to leave it at that.
Alexa
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 04:10 pm: [report]
@roastchicken, don’t get so bent out of shape. I was merely asking to add to my own collective education about why some people view things one way vs. others seeing it in an entirely different light. I wasn’t asking you to justify it, but merely to explain it so I’d have another viewpoint to add to my own personal knowledge base. I happen to write about this (and a great many other things revolving around sexuality), and I like to be able to include an entire range of experiences in my writings. I was hoping to get some insight from you into why you found it degrading.
It’s amazing how defensive some people get about such a simple question. lol Jeez.
roastchicken
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 04:14 pm: [report]
@ Alexa: Lol indeed.
Jenn27549
wrote on August 23 2009 @ 05:30 pm: [report]
@Alexa: I think it could be generally considered degrading, regardless of the context, because it (at least to me) seems akin to spitting in someone’s face. Or peeing on it, or throwing a pie at it, or anything else. In our society most things that are thrown, dumped, or otherwise deposited on the face are intended as, and usually come across as, degrading.
But some people like that, and if so, then fine. There are plenty of other sexual and non-sexual acts that can be considered degrading that people are into—either because of or in spite of that fact.
Personally, I would not find it degrading if it was done by mutual agreement but in all honesty, ejaculate is just gross to me. I have a strange hang up with textures, and slimy stuff really gets me. Doesn’t matter what it is or where it came from. So, it would make me literally sick to have that on my face. I’ve had it on other parts of my body and that was bad enough, but at least tolerable. If my husband asked, I’d give it my best attempt, but I would probably get sick.
Steffie
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 05:13 am: [report]
I have to agree with the commenters about “not the hair!” I used to be an adult escort, and sometimes clients wanted a moneyshot pornstar experience. Okay, it’s their hour, what the heck. After about six to seven tries, I gently deflected them with “I like it best on my chest, it feels so silky” because WITHOUT FAIL it would go in the eyes or up the nose. UGH. But it does feel rather silky and smooth right there, so I still do it with my husband sometimes, like if I’ve taken antibiotics (conflicts the Pill). We both laugh at the ridiculousness of it when it starts getting colder and firming up tho. It’s fun.
Can you tell I don’t have a moral hangup about it?
@Alexa, another viewpoint on degrading. It could also be interpreted as a form of control. The she wants me, but I’m going to give it to her the way I want her to take it sort of thing. Possibly. I dunno. The guy friends I’m close enough to ask aren’t into it and are sometimes confused by it. Or so they tell me.
Keeper
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 10:53 am: [report]
I especially agree with Jenn27549’s first paragraph. While I’ve never done or asked a woman if I could do it, just thinking about it is a huge turn on. But I think subconsciously I’ve felt it’s degrading so I just haven’t brought it up.
Jill
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 11:49 am: [report]
I don’t find them demeaning just because if I actually let a boyfriend do it, he worships me for hours afterward for doing something “no girl ever lets him do!”
bettyboo
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 01:42 pm: [report]
is it just me, or is anyone else getting tempted to try it after all this discussion? ;0) having never really watched porn (once for a laugh at a friends house but we didn’t get to the ‘moneyshot’) i’d never considered it but i’ll definitely be suggesting it :0) to add my 2p, i’d say not with the right guy.. i had a previous BF who turned out to be very manipulative and was always trying to push me to be his pornstar sexy ideal which had the effect of pushing me the other way so i would have felt very bad getting a facial from him.. but with my current guy, who lusts after me just the way I am (which ironically means once i got over the hangups from BF No.1 I’ve tried everything he tried to push me into and loved it) .. I think it’d be damn sexy :0)
Amanda Marcotte
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 07:43 pm: [report]
If you like it because it is demeaning, and you like to be dominated, well, okay. Do it to your heart’s content, but don’t deny that it’s an act that is done to dominate and demean. Why not deny? Because the man you’re #&@$% now may end up in bed with another woman one day. And if you filled his head with self-serving lies about how it’s not about demeaning a woman, then he’s going to use that to bully someone into doing something humiliating. Not cool. I’m fine with your desires, but honesty is important to keep them from being non-abusive.
Amanda Marcotte
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 07:46 pm: [report]
“I don’t find them demeaning just because if I actually let a boyfriend do it, he worships me for hours afterward for doing something “no girl ever lets him do!”
I’m not sure that because he demeans other women to flatter you is such a great sign. He’s got a taste for putting women he sleeps with down.
_jsw_
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 08:35 pm: [report]
@Amanda Marcotte: In what way was her boyfriend putting other women down? As far as I can tell, he said nothing negative about them, just that they didn’t allow it. People with all sorts of fetishes, some common and some not, might go through a number of partners who refuse to participate in them before they find someone who will, but it doesn’t mean they consider those non-participatory partners to have anything wrong with them.
Alexa
wrote on August 24 2009 @ 08:43 pm: [report]
@Amanda Marcotte, I categorically deny that as a general principle. At one time, when some porn producers began using it, it definitely had that bent to it. Nowadays, it is some ingrained in the common culture that it becomes just a fun thing to do for a lot of people (of both sexes). To assert that is universally intended to dominate and/or demean is ludicrous.
bettyboo
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 04:59 am: [report]
so.. if my boyfriend gives me a facial in the privacy of our own bedroom without me feeling in the slightest bit demeaned or dominated I’m somehow demeaning women as a whole..? Nope, I don’t get it.. ;0) If you have that kind of mindset lots of sex acts could be construed as demeaning, the closest equivalent I can think of is sitting on/squatting over his face for oral sex.. if it’s part of a domination/submission fantasy then it could be demeaning to him (tho presumably in a good way for him if that’s his kink) but if it’s just part of 2 people enjoying each others bodies and both parties feel good then what’s the problem..?
bettyboo
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 06:44 am: [report]
the more I think about it, the more I think that the only demeaning sex act is the one you do for the wrong reason.. even a kiss can be demeaning if you consent to it because you haven’t got the courage to offend the guy or are worried about the consequences if you push him away.. but if your loving partner has fantasies about being a porn star and you decide to let him live them out and making that happen for him makes you happy then in no way is that demeaning..
lilliest
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 08:52 am: [report]
I get the distinct feeling that many of the anti-facials crowd have never tried it. It’s nice. It feels good (warm), I don’t have to do a damn thing and he’s happier than cupcakes for breakfast. I have never felt degraded; I sit on his face- tit for tat. I like being dominated and dominating- we take turns. I urge the ladies to not knock it before they’ve tried it.
lilliest
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 08:55 am: [report]
Also, in re completing the act inside of me, once I have come a bunch of times and am worn out, and he still hasn’t, for reals, come on my face, you know? Let’s get some sleep, ,,
PinkRanger
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 11:01 am: [report]
@ Amanda Marcotte:
“you filled his head with self-serving lies about how it’s not about demeaning a woman, then he’s going to use that to bully someone into doing something humiliating.”
So…..in other words, if you’re dating a scumbag that coerces women into doing things they don’t want to do, then you’re demeaning yourself. Well. We already know that! But for that to be a blanket reference to facials, then all men would have to be #&@$%. Maybe you don’t know this, but some women do have healthy and respectful relationships with men-money shots and all.
brandyalexander
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 11:13 am: [report]
bettyboo: perfect. that was the most logical thing anyone on here has said yet. did everyone else read that? seriously.
bettyboo
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 11:37 am: [report]
exactly.. if he’s the bullying manipulative type then he’ll always be that regardless of what you let him do and to be honest, if he’s that bad he shouldn’t be in your bed!.. if he’s a decent guy then why would letting him cum on your face change that..? And you know what, even if he wants to go the whole hog and pretend to be a porn star once in a while and pretend to demean you, then, if he’s a decent guy and that’s his fantasy then what then heck, it’s just pretending, make a role play of it, dress up, have a little scenario that distinguishes it from your normal sex life so it’s out of the ordinary.. might even be fun and he’ll still be the decent guy afterwards, just with a big grin on his face :O)
bettyboo
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 01:32 pm: [report]
and thank you brandyalexander :O)
draymond
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 08:39 pm: [report]
I agree that my earlier post might have come across as too absolutist. Maybe 99.9 percent of couples would never have, prior to seeing it in porn, decided that his standing aside and jerking off until his sperm landed on her face to be a great ending to a sex act but I guess there is allways that .1 percent. However, nowdays even that .1 percent has seen numerous facials in porn scenes. So the association is pretty firm that facials are about as integral to porn as cameras.
And again, there is nothing wrong with pretending that you are a porn star, male or female. As sexual fantasies go it is about as straightforward as you can get. And to return to the original question, is is degrading for a woman to pretend that she and her lover are porn stars? Certainly not.
TheAtavist
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 01:03 am: [report]
When it comes to sex, I demand an All Access Pass..(oral, anal, facials) Otherwise, you’re not the girl for me! Some women love facials, some don’t say anything, and some run out of the bedroom….The runners can’t come back!
tk_2009
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 08:10 am: [report]
@draymond: Does porn inspire some people to do things they might not otherwise? Of course. However, I think the assertion that the pornography industry invented any particular sex act is a little far fetched. People have been having sex, well, for as long as there have been people. Probability makes it a virtual certainty that everything in porn has been done somewhere, by someone (probably many someones) before it was ever recorded on film for the first time. Despite how it may appear, most pornography is reactionary — catering to an existing segment of society that wants to see a certain thing. That’s how they make their money. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
But we do agree - to each their own. If you both want it, then it can’t be considered degrading.
bettyboo
wrote on August 26 2009 @ 11:20 am: [report]
I suspect facials or similar have probably been around since not long after human beings realised that if the guy pulled out they could have the sexy funtime without the parenthood 9 months later and decided to find somewhere else fun to shoot it.. :O) in which case, it would be the opposite of demeaning but actually show cavemans respect for cavewomans wish to avoid motherhood.. No idea how we prove that tho, maybe look for cave painting porn..?
and TheAtavist..I’m surprised that works :OP the moment someone tries to make demands I automatically go the other way..I’m contrary that way and I assume i’m not alone :OP however, make a girl horny as hell for an idea (dirty talk/emails etc) and you won’t to demand.. she’ll ask for it and probably come up with some creative ideas of her own (works for my man anyway.. ;0) )
realdude82
wrote on August 27 2009 @ 09:38 pm: [report]
Yeah I know what you gals mean. Sometimes I like to take the girl I’m with to the bathroom and stick her head in the toilet and flush while we are getting it on. It’s totally cool though, because I totally respect her and I do it with love. Every now and then I’ll even leave a floater in there for good measure. I call it the ‘swirly of love.’
Of course I’m joking, but I’d like to add a little male logic to this debate. And just for the heck of it I’m going to stick up for you girls since you clearly don’t know how to do that.
It’s amazing how dumb you girls are. You can rationalize your way to any ridiculous conclusion. You can’t even tell when you are being degraded. Most of the posts condoning facials have conflated pleasure with lack of degradation. Just because you enjoy something does not mean it is not degrading. It just means that you enjoy something which is degrading, which may mean you have a mental issue which is something you need to work out on your own. In some cultures men are allowed to marry several women and beat and stone their wives while the women could never think of doing such things, which most can agree is degrading. And the women are perfectly fine living under that environment, but are those women not being degraded because they are willing to subject themselves to such an arrangement? or better yet even like it? NO, they still are being degraded!!
Your man will push you until you push back and he can’t push anymore. Just because you give into his porn fantasies (which I admit might be pretty fun) doesn’t mean he is not out to get some pleasure by degrading you in a certain way. And I’m not blaming him, we men are hard-wired this way, so you can blame god and the cavemen. But at the end of the day if your guy leaves you because you don’t let him bust a nut in your face, it just might not have been meant to last, believe it or not.
You can say that you enjoy facials, degrading or not, or even that you like being degraded during sex. But do not say that you are not being degraded because you like it- those are two separate things.
Alexa
wrote on August 27 2009 @ 09:43 pm: [report]
@realdude82 Well, thank #&@$% god you’ve come here to instruct us on the fact that we’re being degraded. God damn, I can’t believe I’ve been deluded all of these years into thinking I knew what the hell was going on inside my own head.
Just because you’re a misogynistic jackass doesn’t mean every guy is, dude. Get a life.
majicksand
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 07:12 am: [report]
I know I’m probably breaking the “girl code” here, but I gotta go with realdude82’s logic here. (sorry Alexa) As I’ve said before, what other people enjoy is fine with me, but I’m definitely not into the facial thing personally. I just can’t help but feel it’s degrading, nevermind just nasty. I’m no prude by any stretch, but I’ve got my limits. Again, before I get a bunch of nastygrams, if you’re into it, more power to you. Facials just scream degradation in my mind regardless of how great the rest of the relationship might be.
Alexa
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 09:05 am: [report]
@majicksand, I don’t know about breaking any “girl code,” but I do think it shows a lack of mental breadth to believe that, because you find something demeaning or degrading, by default it must be for everyone else. That just defies common sense. The world is not that narrow.
majicksand
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 09:46 am: [report]
@Alexa: Did you miss the “to each his/her own” part of my comment?
Alexa
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 09:50 am: [report]
@majicksand, no, but I also didn’t miss your statement about going with realdude82’s logic. Did you bother to actually read what he said? I mean, really read it? If you agree with his logic, then even though you might say “to each his own,” you still believe they’re being demeaned or degraded. Only the individuals involved get to make those decisions regarding themselves (not you, me, or anyone else).
brandyalexander
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:00 am: [report]
Jesus christ, this is getting tired. And gross. Sex with your head in a toilet? That is a really stupid comparison to make.
I think maybe part of this discrepancy on this thread has to do with the idea of body fluids as dirty, hence realdude’s nasty toilet comment. I mean, if semen was so filthy, then yes, it would be totally filthy and degrading to have it on your face, in your mouth, anywhere on your body. But wouldn’t it also be filthy to have it in your vagina, too? For me, semen is something from a man I love, so why would it bother me to have it on my face, etc? When he goes down on me, he is coming up shiny and sticky… I don’t see him as degraded by having my girl juice all over him. If its not for you, then, whatever, but no need to say other women are degrading themselves… its judgmental.
brandyalexander
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:07 am: [report]
@Alexa: I know I disagreed with your former comment, but I like what you are saying here… checked out your blog, too, which is amazing.
lareinedeslames
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:10 am: [report]
Controversy Controversy! All right. Let’s look at it REALLY analytically; lots of feminists claim that ANY penetration of a woman’s vagina by a man’s penis is degrading and ultimately rape. ANY sex act can be viewed in the realm of “degrading” if you look hard enough. Missionary Position? The man is on top, controlling the woman’s movements and dominating her position.
Woman on top? Could be seen as a woman “degrading” her man by forcing her own pleasure and determination of pace.
So. Degrade, according to Mirriam-Webster (primary definition): to lower in dignity or estimation; bring into contempt. From what I can see, just about all these women who receive facials do not feel that they are being lowered in dignity or estimation, nor are their partners bringing them into contempt, except in the case of people who want to shame them that what they are doing is “wrong” and “bad.”
Safe, Sane and Consensual sex should NEVER be equated with shame.
majicksand
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:15 am: [report]
Ok, I should have qualified my agreement with realdude. I agree with the fact that I find the concept of facials degrading and can’t imagine why everyone else doesn’t. That being said, his specifics were a little over the top for my taste. Again, what anyone chooses to do in their own bedroom is fine with me. There are just certain things I can’t imagine anyone wanting to do. Thankfully, my husband has no interest in the facial thing.
I’m not intentionally being judgmental. I should have reread realdude’s comment in its entirety before commenting.
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:18 am: [report]
I’m all up for debate, but if it doesn’t end soon I’m going to cum all over the nearest representation of a face in spite of this conversation. Continue.
Alexa
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:21 am: [report]
@majicksan, okay, that makes sense. In that case, I take back the comment about the lack of mental breadth as it applies to you.
@brandyalexander, thank you. I’m glad you took some time to read through, and I appreciate the kind comment on it. <3
In the words of the inimitable Sasha Grey, “What one person sees and degrading and disgusting and bad for women might make some women feel empowered and beautiful and strong.”
To assert that anything, ANYTHING about human sexuality has universal application is to demonstrate an abject lack of understanding of just how incredibly complex the subject is.
_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:21 am: [report]
@CheeeeEEEEse: Avoid mirrors.
brandyalexander
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:23 am: [report]
@majicksand: Thanks for the clarification. I guess what you are saying is you personally find them degrading. And I have no problem with that statement, just with people who feel they can define what is and is not appropriate for other peoples’ sex lives.
And Cheese: Yes, let this die. Ugggh.
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:24 am: [report]
@brandyalexander: Ugggh is right. I just saw your avatar.
brandyalexander
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:28 am: [report]
? you don’t like my mermaid?
brandyalexander
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:34 am: [report]
sadness…
_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:35 am: [report]
@brandyalexander: Refer to his previous comment about what would happen with the next face he saw.
_jsw_
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:36 am: [report]
@brandyalexander: On the plus side, you’re already underwater, so it should wash off pretty easily.
brandyalexander
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 10:38 am: [report]
boo…..
Alexa
wrote on August 28 2009 @ 08:18 pm: [report]
Here’s an interesting take on facials (and other fluids) that you guys might enjoy:
http://kinkyfeminism.blogspot.com/2009/08/feminists-for-facials.html
realdude82
wrote on August 29 2009 @ 11:38 pm: [report]
Don’t take things so personal Alexa. And don’t feel bad, I would totally cum on your face. By the way, good job attacking my argument by not even refuting a single specific point I made. What I first wrote was in part to make a mocking comparison, but how did you differentiate it? You haven’t done that. Why don’t you take spitting for example. It is universally recognized as a disrespectful act to spit on them. Is it demeaning in the bedroom? What if both like it? What if one (the spittee) likes it only because the other (spitter) enjoys it?
The point I was making is that some things can be inherently demeaning (e.g. spitting, stepping on someone), just as some things can be inherently respectful (e.g. bowing/curtsying). Whether you like demeaning acts or not is up to you- that is the great thing about freedom. Yet liking a certain act doesn’t make it not demeaning. Just as some would say you that human rights or civil rights are not in the eye of the beholder and are objective by nature, some also believe that what is demeaning and degrading is not in the eye of the beholder, there are certain things that are objectively demeaning. I’m just saying that some people may have this opinion and that is their take on it. You’re studying this topic in school, you should be able to make an attempt to understand other people’s opinions and entertain their ideas.
Some people have brought up the idea that when their b/f goes down on them, it is the same thing.. Well, not really. There is a difference between actively shooting onto someone’s face and having some girl juice unintentionally get on a guy’s face. The argument I’m making is the same reason why when you ask some guys if they do certain things in bed with their wife that they did with past girl friends, they will look at you funny and say “what? no way, man that’s my wife.” I’m just taking longer to explain it. Guys know what I’m talking about.
That being said, it is a testament to the profound dysfunction of the American educational system that you can “study” this topic and consider yourself to be some sort of academic or expert because of it. Maybe you can pursue your Ph.D and write your dissertation on “donkey punches” or maybe"chili dogs.” Anybody who has seen your site can tell how out of the mainstream you are. Give me a break. Study a real subject. You’re just a perv writing about sex and trying to act high-minded about it. Too bad you don’t know the first thing about forming an argument. Good luck on being unemployed for the rest of your life.
lareinedeslames
wrote on August 30 2009 @ 12:09 am: [report]
Interesting note; in some civilizations, expelling saliva (spitting) is considered respectful. The same way that belching after a meal is considered polite. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is INHERENTLY disrespectful. Every action’s interpretation is completely contingent on the way a society imprints its members to understand it. What makes something disrespectful is an equation: the intent behind the act and the interpretation of intent.
And realdude, sex IS a real subject. Psychologists have been pondering human sexuality for eons. Sociologists, Anthropologists, Biologists, Physicists, the list goes on. Anyone who wants to know how this crazy mixed up planet works studies reproduction at some point.
bettyboo
wrote on September 1 2009 @ 03:31 am: [report]
Apologies for opening this one again, but realdude82 do you really have such a low opinion of your own sex that you seriously believe this statement ‘Your man will push you until you push back and he can’t push anymore.’ is true of all men?! You might have the mental age of a 4 year old and take advantage of any opportunity your partner gives you to experiment to push her into indulging you further/repeating acts because trying them once means you’re now entitled somehow, but I know that is not true of all men and any that behave like that don’t deserve the time of day, let alone time in bed.
In a healthy sexual relationship fantasies can be explored and tried if they appeal to both partners without resorting to coercion, bribery or blackmail and without anyone feeling degraded or used. Any feelings like that are less to do with the acts carried out and more to do with the ideas implanted by society that sex should be politically correct or that it or certain acts are morally wrong. We’re one of only 3 species of animal (that I know of) that have sex just for fun, the other 2 being dolphins and bonobo chimps, and I’m sure neither of them spend time worrying about these things, they just do whatever feels good and as long as no-one’s getting hurt so should we :0)
bettyboo
wrote on September 1 2009 @ 04:28 am: [report]
Not, I hasten to add, that we should bin all morality/PC. Big concepts like respect for women and prohibitions against infidelity are evidentaly good. But sex is an animal act, all about sights and smells and sensations and should be about doing what feels good. It’s not politically correct in the purest sense because men and women are different, in anatomy and mind and needs and desires. Trying to catagorise any act so generally misses the many permeatations of how 2 people interact.
kevinh
wrote on October 2 2009 @ 07:18 pm: [report]
Seriously, who is to say what is demeaning? A semi-recent GF loved being choked, bitten, spanked, and facials not to mention other deviant things. I asked her what she wanted and she was comfortable enough to tell me. I certainly enjoyed it, but I think seeing her reaction to that stuff was more enjoyment than anything.
My more recent ex loved to be spanked, choked and pinned down during sex.
Making your SO feel good and get a thrill is what it boils down to.
Sparkknock
wrote on October 6 2009 @ 02:24 am: [report]
.....my girlfriend would rather me pull out and
jerk myself off all over her, than ‘mess’ her up
down there. Thats fine with me, cuz I don’t want
to taste myself when I eat her pussy. She doesn’t
like it in her face and I don’t feel the urge
anyway. However, she loves peeing on me in the
bath and shower, and really gets execited when
she and I both together stroke my erection until
I cum allover my chest. We both get quite messy
together, as we both cum several times in a session.
I just wish she wouldn’t kiss me so passionatly when
she’s got a mouthfull of my slippery cum.