Dear Wendy: It’s Been 7 Years And He’s Still Not Ready For Marriage

lea322
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:11 pm: [report]

After you’ve been proposed to, it’s not pressuring someone to ask them to set a date. I thought that was part of why people proposed.

C.Munro
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:29 pm: [report]

What I want to know is, how are a piece of paper and a bit of shiny metal going to change the fundamentals of the letter writer’s relationship?  I can understand pressure to have a child, since there is a certain window of opportunity there.  But the writer already has a child with this man, and I’m assuming that they’re living together. 

So how is going through an archaic ceremony going to improve her relationship?  Because it sounds to me like the only thing that’ll change is that she’ll be able to show off a ring and introduce him as her husband instead of her boyfriend or fiance or whatever.

Lynn
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:38 pm: [report]

C. Munro - I think it is differently. It seems like she values and wants marriage. I certainly understand that, because I want to get married too. Not this second but…I definitely do want to get married at some point in my life and if someone wanted to just live with me forever, that would probably be a dealbreaker. I’m not saying a wedding is going to improve an already-crappy relationship, but if she’s happy with him in other non-wedding-related areas, I don’t think it’s crazy of her to want one with him.

Queen Frostine
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:39 pm: [report]

There are around 1400 legal benefits from marriage. Insurance, tax breaks and hospital visitation are big ones.

And having been married, things do change a bit. It elevated and strengthens a bond you have with that person. People give you more respect, since you’re willing to go the lengths to be married and vow publicly to be with each other until death. That’s a huge undertaking, a huge challenge and a huge accomplishment that isn’t present just by co-habitating. And if you’re religious/spiritual, you want your union to be sanctified by god.

lawyrgrl
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:42 pm: [report]

@C.Munro If both parties are equally committed to their life together then you are 100% correct - a piece of paper and a ring mean little.  However, the man in this scenario appears to be somewhat iffy in the ccommittment department and that makes all the difference.  His insistence on putting off the wedding that he proposed makes me think that he is aware of her need for an “outward and visible sign” of their committment but is not willing to go through with it.  That is a very different proposition than 2 committed people who choose to have their relationship on their own terms without State involvement but who are totally invested in their partnership.

Jenn27549
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:50 pm: [report]

There will always be a reason to put it off.  I was that person with many “reasons” for a while.  It wasn’t even intentional.  I didn’t realize it until I was out of the relationship, but he doesn’t want to marry you.  There is no “perfect time” and Wendy’s right, marriage doesn’t encumber any of those objectives.  Leave.  Now.

bumbler
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:52 pm: [report]

But then the reverse argument applies.  If he’s committed and in this relationship for the long haul what difference would a quick visit to the justice of the peace make?  Why would he be so against it?

C.Munro
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:55 pm: [report]

@Lynn:  OK, but that brings up what is really one of my hot-button issues: that people tend to want/value marriage more than the relationship that should be its foundation.  Personally, I’d say that I would love to meet someone I’m willing to spend the rest of my life with, but whatever the relationship is called couldn’t interest me less.

@Queen Frostine:  True, there are legal benefits which alone might make a persuasive case for marriage.  I’m just guessing here, but I don’t think those are the foremost issues on the writer’s mind though, as she didn’t bring any of them up.  I could be wrong, though.  Frankly, making this argument to her fiance may be her best course, as it probably would be beneficial in the legal sense to a couple who have a child together. 

Then again, I also think the tax benefits of marriage should be repealed.  I should not have to subsidize the lifestyles of suburban homemakers just because I’ve not found anyone myself yet. 

@lawyrgrl:  I see what you’re saying.  But if this guy is iffy about the relationship, I don’t think getting married is going to change his outlook.  If anything, I’d expect it to be or become an unhappy marriage.  My own view is that if somebody wants 100 percent to be with me, that’s cool no matter what you call it.  But if somebody doesn’t, I won’t be with her as anything more than a friend.

lea322
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 01:59 pm: [report]

@C.Munro: Your opinions are valid, and if they are what work for you, then more power to you. However, Frustrated Fiancee feels differently than you do, and getting married DOES matter to her. Whether YOU agree with marriage on principle isn’t the question here, it’s whether or not this woman, who WANTS to get married, should stay with this man who clearly doesn’t. We’re not discussing the pros and cons of marriage. We’re discussing whether this woman should stay in this relationship.

C.Munro
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 02:14 pm: [report]

But that’s just it.  I’m not saying this woman shouldn’t get married.  I’m saying that, for the sake of her own future happiness, she should have a long conversation with herself about why she wants to marry this guy, and what that’s worth to her.  Is being married so much better than her current situation that it would be worth sacrificing the entire relationship if he won’t marry her? 

Because really, I’m not against marriage.  I’m against marriage for the wrong reasons.  I guess you could say I’m also against breaking up for the wrong reasons.

cooldad
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 02:30 pm: [report]

I agree with cmunro.  They already live together and have a child together.  She doesn’t mention anything about his ditching his responsibilities in the relationship or him not being a good partner.  it sounds like his economic situaton is a bit precarious which is very stressful and which can cause anyone difficulties in making big decisions.

I too lived with my gf for 7 years after college, believed I would always be with her & have kids together, yet I saw no reason to get married.  Either of us could leave any time we wanted out, before or after the marriage.  We ultimately did get married and there are benefits, almost all of which stem from the assumption that we’re married - nobody asks to see a marriage certificate & we have different last names.

It is true that he should try to respect her wishes, but on the other hand, it seems like it’s working out anyway (it must be if she wants to spend the rest of her life with him)

Knitter79
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 02:32 pm: [report]

While the tone of her letter suggests that marriage is a priority, it’s almost irrelevant.  He proposed to her.  Something tells me if she’s not the type to give her fiance an ultimatum then she’s probably also not the type to give her boyfriend an ultimatum about proposing.  He promised her that he would marry her and now he’s backing out.  If a guy offered to do something major and then gave every excuse under the sun to not do it, I’d be pretty pissed.

Ultimatums don’t work.  She needs to talk to him first to see what is really going on.  If that doesn’t work then move on.  Tough when you have a kid together, but sometimes it’s better than staying with someone not committed to making the relationship work.

luke15chick
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 02:36 pm: [report]

something does sound really fishy, almost makes me wonder if he’s cheating, or maybe just really afraid to be bound to providing for two children.

Queen Frostine
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 02:44 pm: [report]

Marriage means different things to different people. These people need to sit down and define what marriage means to them, marriage expectations and life goals. If those expectations and goals don’t find common ground, it’s time for re-evaluation.

This guy has obvious unvoiced concerns. He’s not communicating them to her. That’s a big issue that needs to be addressed. A relationship (married or unmarried) won’t work if one person conceals their feelings and hides behind excuses. There needs to be open honest dialogue, period.

tabby
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 02:49 pm: [report]

@luke15chick, Except that he is already legally bound to provide for one of those children anyway. I doubt that being legally responsible for another would be that big of a deal (and maybe not even that as she dies not discuss the possible monetary arrangement with the first child’s father.)

He clearly does not want to marry her. She needs to decide if she wants to continue living with someone who perhaps is “not that into her” or if she wants to look for something better. I hope she opts for looking for something better.

luke15chick
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 02:52 pm: [report]

sadly enough a lot of men think if they “disappear” then they don’t have to pay child support.

SouthOC
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 03:03 pm: [report]

It sounds like this dude isn’t willing to get married as a form of having one foot out the door, or waiting for something better to come along.

The storms of life are difficult enough even when you’re both 100% committed.  If you’re all in, and the other person is holding back... it adds more stress to any situation you might be going through.

develange
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 04:49 pm: [report]

From the letter, it seems as though they both suck at communicating with each other.

This sounds awful though. I agree with C.Munro. She needs to think about why she wants to spend the rest of her life with this guy. It seems as through she wants marriage because she’s 30 (so old!) and they’ve been together for a pretty long time. What ever happened to wanting to get married because she can’t imagine her life without this guy/ she loves him?

She needs to get on his ass to have a serious discussion. He needs to stop blowing it off. If he won’t talk about it, she needs to try and move on. It takes two to make it work.

txninmn
wrote on October 29 2009 @ 05:07 pm: [report]

@CMunro: I agree with you that she needs to really be honest with herself about what she wants (if I’m paraphrasing part of your last post correctly). Even if this couple isn’t communicating directly, he’s given her plenty of indicators that he’s not on the same path she is.
@develange, they absolutely need to hash it out. Or try to. But if he won’t talk, or he still is delaying marriage for these insubstantial reasons he’s previously given, she really needs to face the music that this man apparently cannot be who she seems to want. And ultimately that must at some point be accepted, at least in my opinion, even if it hurts like hell and it seems ‘wrong,’ because we (used editorially here) can’t force people to be who they are not.

og217
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 01:26 am: [report]

The writer suspects that something’s wrong and that the relationship isn’t “forever.”  She needs the guy to convince her other wise by marrying her and when he refuses, he confirms her fears.  I also didn’t like the last phrase:  all this time invested warrants a marriage.  Its not like all these dollars invested warrants a livable home, its not a purchase. Obviously time in the relationship don’t make this guy want to marry her, a kid doesn’t either, so what will? Probably nothing.  If you’re not ready to marry after 7 years its because you know the person is wrong for you.

clearbluesky
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 05:34 am: [report]

I think this is sound advice. But can we please please please PLEASE stop saying “hot mess”? Pretty please?

mskitty30
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 09:02 am: [report]

Frustrated Fiancee- Ofcourse we love each other and can’t imagine our lives apart.  He is the provider for our family.  I left the first time and got into a committed relationship with my sons father and had my son.  When it didn’t work out, I came back to my fiancee.  He wants everything to be perfect and in the order that he plans.  I believe he is scared of marriage…...he reminds me that everytime I get mad I threated to leave our family.  I do!  But I have never left.  He acknowledges both kids as his and is the provider for our whole family.  He pays the rent, gets the cars prepared, provides us with insurance, plans family activities and is always available to me or the kids.

What I did not mention is that he told me he wanted to get married in 2010 and I was excited and asked for a date.  He asked me to be patient and I said I’ve been patient for 7 years, I’m not sure if I can be paitent any more.  I want my children to grow up with 2 loving parents.  Not going back and forth between parents weekly.  We raise them together and I may scarifise for them.  Hot mess was not appropriate way to address the person I introduced as my fiancee in the letter.  Can we say “Loving” supportive, provider, business professional, father??

mskitty30
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 09:07 am: [report]

@CMunroe - I have a large ring now to show off so it’s not about that.  It’s about being together all of this time and pretending we are married.  I am introduced as his wife and I’m not.  It’s about making it official for me.  I feel like he has to prove that he is successful and the wants to wait until he can provide me with all of the things that I want…...but I don’t need that.  He has taken care of me for 7 years and I’m still here….I believe in my heart that he will be successful and he strongly believes the same.

mskitty30
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 09:12 am: [report]

@bumbler - He is not saying he is against it, but he wants to plan everything!! This is a problem for me.  This should be planned together. Our communication sucks period.  If I don’t agree, I get pissed and threaten to leave.  I never do but this is one of the issues I have.  One I believe is holding him back….one that also warrants a pre-nup in his mind.

carbe
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 11:25 am: [report]

Make a run for it. Marriage is sacred. People might think it’s all about title and showing off, but it isn’t. I’m in a committed relationship - we live together and just celebrated our 3rd anniversary. We’re practically a married couple. His parents are happily married while mine sleep in the same house, but in different bedrooms. So it’s reversed where I don’t really want anything more than what we have, because if it ain’t broke, why fix it, right? But after serious consideration, I see it this way. If my boyfriend can spend all that time and effort to research and save money for the perfect engagement ring as a sign of his commitment to me AND plan the most romantic proposal that will surely make me say yes, that’s love. If we can stand in front of God and all the saints we believe in with our families and friends behind us and make our bond, our commitment legal in all the ways possible forever, that’s love. I can live the rest of my life being with him unmarried and he’d do the same—but it’s the steps you take and the meaning and history behind the custom and tradition of marriage that makes it so special. It’s not just a piece of paper. Not for me. That’s my reason. It’s not because for the last 3 years I’d spent all my time and efforts putting up with his BS =)

majicksand
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 03:00 pm: [report]

Here’s a perfect example of how difficult it is to give meaningful advice based on the details provided in a short letter.  I agreed with Wendy’s assessment until hearing more specifics from the letter writer.  Now it becomes clear that the fiance has some legitimate concerns and if I don’t miss my guess, is a very “type A” personality.  After 7 years, mskitty30 should understand and accept her fiance’s micromanaging ways if she’s still not only willing but anxious to get married.

If you are sure this is the guy for you, then be patient, mskitty.  2010 will be here before you know it.  I wish you and your family a lifetime of happiness.  Good luck.

muzician
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 07:01 pm: [report]

It took him seven years to propose… He is obviously taking his time and is not the kind of person who just wants to “get it over with”. If she is happy with him and with the rest of the relationship, AND especially when there are children involved, maybe now is not the time to all of a sudden rush things?
Then again, she should rely on her gut. If it feels wrong, it’s wrong.

og217
wrote on October 31 2009 @ 05:52 am: [report]

From the follow-up letters, its clear that the writer has no job.  She also has a kid with someone else.  The guy still, even with all the extra details, doesn’t want to marry her any time soon and wants a prenup because he doesn’t trust her.  It just doesn’t sound any better with the extra details than without. 

Heads up to the bride to be - if its so important to you to be “really married,” chances are, you already are, depending on what state you live in.  7 years of cohabitation and financial support constitutes common law marriage in a lot of states.  But I doubt this is what she wants as a marriage.

draymond
wrote on October 31 2009 @ 10:58 pm: [report]

I think the key phrase in this whole thing is that you broke up (which it sounds like you initiated) and got back together.  That was no doubt painfull to him, but at least it wasn’t messy or expensive.  He’s worried that you will leave him again.  (Why? Maybe because you are constantly threatening to do just that!)  And in that case it would be painfull, messy AND expensive!  Then what happens after the painfull, messy and expensive part?  Maybe history repeats itself and you leave for a year, maybe even again get knocked up by some other guy, and then come pleading back to him? That’s for guys the worst case marriage scenario, and he has already had to live through it once!

Maybe he proposed because the thought it would stop you from threatening to leave!  But since it hasn’t apparently stopped you from threatening to leave why continue?

Forget the rest.  You need to get some counseling on your communication, particularly your conflict resolution skills.  Ideally with the help of a counselor you should set some rules and learn to live by them.  Typical rules: No shouting, no bringing up old issues, No bringing in other people, No exaggerating including using words like always or never unless it truly is so, and…no ultimatiums and no empty threats.

Gingee
wrote on November 7 2009 @ 11:53 am: [report]

In general, when there is a Pre-Nuptial Agreement, the lawyers advise waiting a year after the proposal. This gives both parties time to form the contract.

This guy is being smart.  He may be poor today, but that does not mean that he will stay poor.

In legal terms, marriage is all about acquiring property.

shawbrooke
wrote on November 11 2009 @ 04:29 pm: [report]

In my opinion this article is really, really good advice.