Dear Wendy: Is A Potential Relationship Worth Jeopardizing A Great Friendship?
Posted by: Wendy Atterberry
Filed in:
relationships
11:00AM, Monday September 7th 2009
I’m 23 years old and have been friends with a 26-year-old guy—let’s call him Ben—for about two years. We met online, and instantly hit it off. We started doing the unofficial dating thing for about four months before I talked to him about making it official, because for all intents and purposes we were bf/gf anyway. Ben said he wasn’t ready for a relationship at that point, and as secretly devastated as I was, I cooled things off in the sex department and remained his friend.
Fast forward to two years later: We’re seriously besties, see each other at least twice a week, and text daily. He’s very affectionate towards me, and while we sleep in the bed and he’s a serious cuddler, we don’t have sex. Or kiss. Though he does say I’m beautiful, and devotes most of his attention to me when we’re out, even with his friends. He’s taken me camping with his family, and I’m always invited along when his parents come down from Michigan for the weekend to hang out and have dinner. He’s a very sweet, quiet, not-really-sexual kinda guy, but I’ve realized recently that I’m very not over him.
I recently revisited his original profile on the dating site on which we met, and it’s still active. On it, he even says that he’s been thinking about wanting a serious relationship with someone. Um, hello? What about me? I feel he’s sending me mixed messages that I don’t know how to read. While I do want to know how he feels about me, I don’t want to jeopardize our friendship. I really can’t see myself being friends with him if he started dating some other chick (or if I started dating some other dude, for that matter), but I don’t want to give him an ultimatum. I definitely feel like he has feelings for me, but is maybe feeling the way I am? Like he doesn’t want to hurt the friendship? I don’t know ... any words of wisdom on how I should go about handling this?
If you can’t see yourself being friends with Ben if he started dating “some other chick” or if you started dating “some other dude,” your friendship is already in jeopardy the moment either of you begins looking to date someone else. Since Ben has an active dating profile — one that says he’s “thinking about wanting a serious relationship” — that puts him in the category of looking for someone else. You’ve got nothing to lose now that you won’t eventually lose anyway by telling him how you feel and asking if he’s interested in a romantic relationship with you. But I’ll warn you — be prepared for an answer you don’t want to hear. I’m not just suggesting you aren’t the woman for Ben — I’m suggesting Ben may not actually be into women at all.
Perhaps the mixed messages you’ve been receiving from him are a result of him feeling a little mixed-up himself. “Thinking about wanting a serious relationship” doesn’t exactly sound like someone who’s sure of himself. And the relationship you describe — “besties” who “cuddle” regularly but don’t have sex—doesn’t sound like the typical relationship between a straight young man and woman. He brings you camping with his family, invites you to join him for dinner when his parents are in town—he thinks you’re “beautiful” and clearly enjoys your company, but despite sleeping in the same bed as you, never initiates or shows interest in having sex with you. This is behavior typical of someone who’s in the closet or confused about his sexuality. Whether he’s gay or not, one thing is clear: your relationship needs to be redefined. You can’t continue getting the short-end of the stick if what you really want from him isn’t available. If he’s not interested in being your boyfriend, decide for yourself whether you can continue being his friend even if it means watching him date other people. Understand that if he is, in fact, gay, it’s likely that he himself doesn’t realize it or hasn’t yet accepted his sexuality. Being his friend will mean letting him know you love and accept him for who he is, without judgment. If that’s something you aren’t prepared to offer, or if you can’t be in his life without being his romantic partner, there’s no reason to continue a friendship with him.
*Do you have a relationship/dating question I can help with? Send me your letters at dearwendy@thefrisky.com.
TheFrisky.com is part of the Turner Sports and Entertainment Digital Network
retro chic
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 10:48 am: [report]
On the face of it (and of course there’s always more to it), I think you’re right. This guy either knows he’s gay but cannot ID yet… too beholden to family/conventions and is looking to continue the charade. OR, he doesn’t think he is, and believes he just needs to find someone else who can “do it” for him in the hetero way. And, perhaps – just perhaps – since this didn’t raise any alarm bells for her now or sooner – she might need to do a little self-exploration on that front too. These people sometimes find each other before they come to grips with their own sexuality.
Jenn27549
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 10:59 am: [report]
Regardless of his sexuality, if they started out just having sex and now its been over 2 years without any sex, even if they’ve been in bed together and cuddled I’d say he’s 100% not interested and it doesn’t really matter why. Move on.
majicksand
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 11:01 am: [report]
Gotta go with Wendy on this one. I wouldn’t jump to any conclusions about this guy’s sexuality, but you definitely need to clear the air.
I had a great friend years ago whom I loved—as a friend. He made it clear he wanted more, and I made it clear it would never happen. He spent the night at my place (and in my bed) relatively often, after partying or whatever. I knew his family quite well, and he knew mine. We went everywhere together. We were best friends but never lovers. He would have welcomed a more intimate relationship but didn’t make a move because I had made it clear it would not be well received.
Eventually, I started dating someone else, which slowed the friendship down but didn’t kill it. The end came when he met his future wife. Even though I was in a relationship at the time, she could see his feelings for me. She told me pointedly to stay away from her man. My friend didn’t say much to defend our friendship, so I let him go.
We didn’t speak for about 15 years. In the last year, I found out that my friend and his wife have since divorced, so I looked him up. He and my current husband were friends way back when as well, so we have all renewed our friendship. He no longer thinks of me the way he once did, so there’s no longer any awkwardness to overcome. We talk and get together occasionally, but it will never be what it was.
If you and your friend are looking for different things from your relationship, the friendship will most likely end. It is sad and hard to accept, but it is reality. Try to accept that it isn’t meant to be without too many hard feelings. That way you leave the door open for a future friendship once you are comfortable with not being more.
badger
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 11:07 am: [report]
Either he’s just not into her (literally and figuratively) or he’s not into women in general. Time to move on unless she’s satisfied that being an arm decoration is her version of a long term relationship.
majicksand
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 11:09 am: [report]
After re-reading my first post, there’s one point I don’t feel I made clear. There is the possibility this guy is not “making his move” when they sleep together because she has let him know she’s not interested in sex without a relationship. She “cooled things off in the sex department” when he told her he wasn’t ready to commit. Perhaps he is just being respectful of his friend’s wishes.
retro chic
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 11:14 am: [report]
Yeah, I forgot the clear-the-air part. And even if he isn’t gay, he certainly has some other underlying issue that kept that conversation from happening long ago.
@majicksand, at least you had the talk *first,* something sorely lacking with Wendy’s letter-writer.
Psst. Wendy. Can you give these “letter-writers” pseudonyms for commenting purposes? Thanks!
lostrun
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 11:35 am: [report]
Yeah, doesn’t matter if he’s gay or straight, he’s not looking for a relationship w/ you. Either way, walk away from him by ending the relationship b/c the only way you will get over him is to break contact. Maybe eventually you can restart the relationship, but not until you move on.
Wrigley
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 11:59 am: [report]
This is the second column in a row with someone trying to tell people how guys are without being Male themselves. I really can’t believe what I just read. Because a guy’s not into you, he’s automatically unsure of his sexuality? Seriously? He’s gotta be gay, right? LOL, figure it out, he’s not into YOU! Sorry, that’s just it. You’re great as a stand in, but he’s looking for something else. Sorry to be blunt, but its just how it is.
Shriekback68
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 12:17 pm: [report]
Hahahahah!!! I love this. Because he doesn’t want to have sex with her anymore, he’s suddenly “gay.” Sometimes women can be utterly CLUELESS. Seriously, you guys are missing the point completely.
You know why he doesn’t want a “relationship” with her? BECAUSE SHE ALREADY GAVE IT UP FOR HIM. Now he’s just milking her for an emotional attachment, nothing more. All the camping, cuddling, etc etc is just him using her as an emotional tampon. He’s a user. And a loser. Dump him.
Oh, and ladies: just because a guy doesn’t want you sexually doesn’t automatically mean he’s “gay.” Get over yourselves. Sheesh.
OutOfLine
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 12:44 pm: [report]
I think Wendy definitely has it on this one. It doesn’t sound like he’s just not into her specifically, it sounds a little like something else is going on. I mean, obviously you will never be able to tell without meeting the people, but something just seems off.
Lynn
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 12:52 pm: [report]
I’m with Shriekback68 - for whatever reason, he doesn’t want a real romantic relationship with her. But I think he’s using her for attention and emotional intimacy, sort of as a girlfriend stand-in. He doesn’t want to date her, but he likes her as a friend and the physical contact & cuddles are nice. And that’s OK if that’s what she wants out of it too - but it sounds like she wants way more than he is willing to provide to her. And any friendship that hinges on the other person being single to continue isn’t going to last very long anyway. I say quit investing in him and build a life without him, because soon you may be forced to.
Sofjna
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 01:06 pm: [report]
I’ve cuddled with my one guy friend a few times, when I’ve had too much to drink and can’t drive, and I know he has no interest in me. But he’s not gay, I know he likes women. I like though that he’s not interested in me since I don’t have to worry about him trying anything and I feel safe. Even though I have a little crush on him.
As for the gut in the letter, I agree with Shriekback, the guy is just using her. He’s doing most of the things you would do with a girlfriend/boyfriend, but he doesn’t actually have to be attached.
CheezeDoodles
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 01:14 pm: [report]
I’m with Shriek on this one. Once you give up the goodies, the mystery is pretty much done. Apparently, Ben has the ability to differentiate between sex and love; the author of the letter clearly does not. Sex does not equal love. It’s great when they’re paired, sure, but let’s face it, the two are not part of a combo meal by default.
I don’t think Ben’s gay—I think he already knows what a relationship would be like with the girl in the letter, and though he obviously enjoys her company, maybe she’s really NOT his speed in the girlfriend department. You spend that much time with someone—on the family trips and such—you get a clear idea of what a person is made of.
Maybe Ben has seen things in her personality that he can enjoy or tolerate on a friend basis, but no more than that. Moving above “Friend” status requires that everyone involved is willing to take a lot more crap than they would from a friend.
From all that’s in the letter, Ben hasn’t misrepresented himself…her own mind gave her the idea that it could be more, but he did not. No foul on his side of the court. I think he experienced as much as he was willing to with this girl in the sexual/romantic realm, and what he got, well, cool while it lasted. It’s obviously not on his radar any longer—with her or anyone else, it seems.
Time to accept that, even though you believe you’re the logical, shoo-in choice for someone, logic and love usually don’t go hand in hand. Either accept the status of being his girl friend (note that’s not a compound noun there) or move ahead with the hunt for something more with SOMEONE ELSE.
lostrun
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 02:30 pm: [report]
If a guy isn’t into you, don’t ask why. It doesn’t matter why b/c you can’t change how he feels. Let it go, move on.
SummertimeFirefly
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 03:13 pm: [report]
Whoa!? I’m missing the whole “he’s gay” bit. How’d you guys jump to that conclusion? Male/Female friendships can be complicated and men aren’t sexual robots - just because he’s not trying to sleep with her doesn’t necessarily mean he’s gay. There could be plenty of reasons for their arrangement, but I’m in agreement that she shouldn’t waste her time guessing. Have an honest conversation with him, be prepared for the worst, and make an informed decision about the relationship.
DancingGeek
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 04:24 pm: [report]
If you have to guess and analyze- there’s your answer. If he wanted her, he’d make it perfectly clear.
Shriekback68
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 04:28 pm: [report]
Great post, Summertime. Just because a guy isn’t rock-hard for you 24/7, doesn’t mean he’s “gay.” Like women, men are complex. Seems like a shocking thing to say, but there it is.
magenta generation
wrote on September 7 2009 @ 05:16 pm: [report]
I have to agree with the majority of the male posters here. I don’t think the object of this girl’s affection is gay AT ALL! I think he is just biding time with her because she has settled for a friends with (sexual then emotional) benefits relationship. I think neither one of them likes being alone but he is planning on moving on full steam ahead while she is still “caught up in the matrix” as they say. She needs to “Run, Forest, Run,” from this #&@$% of a relationship.
I am usually not one to be a woman’s killjoy, but she’s delusional if after all this time she thinks he isn’t having sex with her means he hasn’t had sex with any other women she might not know about (did she ever think about that possibility?) She can go ahead and try to reestablish boundaries now to her detriment: it’s too late!
She needs to see her fault in this, from his point of view he probably thought they were just having fun and SHE DECIDED to remain “friends” with him.
From the letter she wrote, here are the signs “he’s not that into her.”
1. he never brought the bf/gf subject, she did mainly because she assumed they were going to end up together since they were hanging out/having sex.
2. said he wasn’t ready for a relationship (Big one).
3. had sex first before really getting to know him (IMO).
4. she used cooling off the sex as a way to get him to see she was serious (IMO), a little late too play hard to get and obviously didn’t work.
5. she doesn’t see that from now on, she will always be in the “friend-zone” even if they start having sex again (which I doubt).
6. she remained his friend, even though he basically told her in so many words: she was good enough to bang but not to have a relationship with.
What more does she need to know?
Only upon some miracle he will love her other than the brother/sister(incestuous)way he does now. Something tells me she already senses this, he’s moving on…slowly yet he is planning on dating other women and now she wants what she can’t have with him, a true relationship.
She is hoping for a fairytale outcome (like the ending to Some Kind of Wonderful) and reality is shaking it’s 8ball and it doesn’t look good. She’s setting herself up for rejection/embarrassment/insanity/heartbreak. To me, she’s afraid of moving on out of fear of not finding anyone better than him, which is garbage.
My opinion, she’ll learn from her mistakes, the biggest using sex to get love, it’s clear she tried this and it failed miserably. Now she’s stuck in relationship limbo and the only way to get out is make a break for it and distance herself from this “friend.”
jadoremode
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 03:15 am: [report]
Oh girlfriend, I didn’t even have to read the whole article to know what you’re going to say. Been there, done that, I’m sure every woman has, he likes having sex with you but doesn’t want to date you. There’s nothing you can do or say and there’s nothing wrong with you, it just goes to show you that sex before a relationship is usually never the way to go. Honestly, you’re probably blinded by the sex to realize that maybe you don’t want him either. Just step back, stop having sex with him and you’ll probably realize that you’re probably not that into him either.
jadoremode
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 03:21 am: [report]
Oh, okay I reread the article, I really want to know where the beard thing came from? There’s no where in her original question that somehow stated that he’s gay. He’s not INTO her, maybe he is gay but I have no idea where that came from, honestly. She just needs to move on, he’s just using her for cuddling which is like some girls who I know that like to have guy friends sleep in their bed. They just need someone there, I have no idea. I don’t think he’s gay, I just think he’s not into her and she needs to move on.
majicksand
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 10:00 am: [report]
@retro chic: We didn’t actually have “the talk” until he professed his undying love. At first I was oblivious, then I didn’t know what to say when I realized he wanted to change our friendship. I waited for him to bring it up. It took balls to pour his heart out after we’d been “just friends” for six months. I let him down as easy as I could, and we continued on as though it never happened. Looking back, I know that he was biding his time trying to “wear me down”. He didn’t believe I meant “never gonna happen” until I started dating someone else. Even then, he accepted it gracefully—he’s good people like that. Our real issue was that his new girlfriend (and getting laid) trumped our friendship. I couldn’t really blame him, so I walked away.
I just wanted to illustrate that the guy in the letter didn’t necessarily have to be gay. He isn’t pushing the sex issue because she made it clear sex=relationship. Even though he doesn’t want a relationship with her, he still enjoys her company. That will last until she pushes the relationship issue or he finds someone he wants to commit to. Obviously he would be into sex with her if she offered it freely again but not if it requires a commitment. I think he’s being respectful of his friend.
retro chic
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 10:27 am: [report]
@majicksand: gotcha. But I think our girl in the letter is deluding herself, one way or another.
The problem with these letters is we only hear one side and the one side is incomplete and skewed at best. And more to the point: Who writes to a stranger for advice anyway?
Advice that they haven’t already received from friends and family that know her/him better. Right… she doesn’t like what she hears from them and writes for advice in the hopes for a different result. I think most letter writers are kinda of… lost, or lack confidence.
So it’s always anyone’s guess, but makes for very animated *speculation.* That’s the most these comments, however well-positioned, are just that: speculation.
*sam*
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 10:49 am: [report]
Why Wendy, why? The automatic assumption that just because this guy isn’t trying to get into her pants every chance he has means he’s sexually confused is ludicrous at best. As a matter of fact, it’s infuriating. Women are constantly talking about how they want a man to listen to them and be their friend and do all these sorts of things without trying to bone them, and then when someone does that, they’re gay, or confused, or whatever. It’s ridiculous. I’m sorry, but there is NOTHING in the original letter that really warrants that type of response. Like others here have mentioned, by insinuating he’s gay simply because he doesn’t seem sexually interested in ONE girl is insulting. It’s insulting to him, the girl, and your intelligence. I sincerely hope that your advice does not cause an unnecessary fight amongst these two people. I can only imagine how hurtful it would be to “Ben” if this girl were to accuse him of being gay just because he doesn’t want a ‘real’ relationship with her, and how heartbroken she may be if he suddenly ends the friendship with her for seeming so narcissistic. :(
majicksand
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 11:00 am: [report]
@retro chic: Definitely delusional. Like I said, my friend didn’t give up after I told him it would never happen either. He backed off in hopes I would change my mind. This girl seems to be hoping for the same thing. ‘Maybe if I give him time and show him how great we are together, he’ll come around.’ She’s thinking emotionally not logically.
BedRocka
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 11:16 am: [report]
hahaha! Let all the single relationship experts come out of the woodworks will they please, she needs all the different opinions to help her decipher this conundrum!
majicksand
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 11:32 am: [report]
@BedRocka:
“Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement.”
I happen to be nauseatingly, happily married, but I don’t believe that’s required to give good relationship advice. I think anyone who has had (or sometimes even just witnessed) a similar bad experience—and learned from it—is capable of wisdom.
ootie
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 12:31 pm: [report]
Imagine if this situation was reversed, and the guy was writing in saying that he was really into his female friend, who always had him sleep over, cuddle with her, accompany her places, etc, but never had sex with him and said she didn’t want to date him. I really doubt that we would surmise that the girl was a lesbian. I bet the response would be more along the lines of, “you’re stuck in friend zone, and she’s using you until someone she actually wants to be with comes along”. Which could very well be the case (but genders reversed) in this situation. He could be gay, by that’s a big assumption to make from that letter—guys have emotional needs as well, and she could be the easiest way to take care of that when he doesn’t want the commitment of a relationship. Its obvious that he isn’t sure whether or not he wants a relationship—this setup, where he gets all the emotional and companionship benefits, but doesn’t have to commit to anyone and can date and have sex with whoever he wants, might be working very well for him.
fleurdelis
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 01:41 pm: [report]
Is that a joke? That has to be a joke. This has absolutely nothing to do with him being gay. If you’re around, and a boy wants to be in a relationship with you, he WILL be. Hell, he’ll make it happen if you’re NOT around. You’re there, he gets to feel all warm and cuddly when he wants to, but he clearly doesn’t want to date you. It’s harsh and it’s awful, but you need to stop letting him be your crutch as well and move on to someone who will give you all of that in a relationship.
Holy crap, he’s not gay.
magenta generation
wrote on September 8 2009 @ 06:53 pm: [report]
@fleurdelis, you basically summarized my thoughts in one paragraph (damn, I wish I could do that, haha). I concur that this man is NOT GAY. He’s just doesn’t want a relationship with her and she is deluding herself into thinking different.
I think she is trying not to kick herself in the head for wasting 2 years of her life pining for a guy that will never give her what she wants: True Love. I speak from experience and have the emotional wounds to prove it: when a guy (or girl) doesn’t want to be with you, there is nothing you can do to change their minds- NOTHING!
freepeople1986
wrote on September 9 2009 @ 11:17 am: [report]
Easy people. She merely said “perhaps” he was gay. It was a suggestive comment, and if you read the letter, it is totally legitimate.
Yeah, I agree, he’s probably JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU. She’s trying to uncover *why*.
Maybe because he’s gay.
Or maybe he’s not.
og217
wrote on September 10 2009 @ 07:02 am: [report]
I have no idea where the gay thing came from either, but what immediately occurred to me is another unpleasant possibility: The girl is just not physically attractive. They met online and “banged???” What is that, exactly? Drunken fumbling, beer-goggled groping? As soon as she wanted to go public he decided to be friends while still looking, maybe, to date someone seriously. Someone else. Sure, he takes this girl along - she’s fun and safe and if she is unattractivive, then its not like she’ll scare off potential girlfriends. I don’t know the deal but if this friendship, in addition to cuddling and being besties, involves the girl buying drinks, giving rides, etc. then he’s got one sweet deal. AND he knows if he is drunk or deperate again, he can “bang” her. This is very bad.
wonderfultonight
wrote on September 10 2009 @ 12:18 pm: [report]
Whoa! We’ve gone from *maybe he’s gay* to maybe she’s *physically unattractive?* Apparently, she’s not too unattractive (and that shouldn’t be the criteria for a relationship, anyway) because he does take her places - family, friends,etc. have met her several times. He doesn’t seem to mind her looks too much to take her out with friends.
It does seem that he’s just not into the type of relationship she now THINKS she wants. I agree with the post that it might be better to have the *talk* and be prepared for the worst. At least she’ll know. It may end the friendship, but this doesn’t seem to be going anywhere now, so better to not waste any more time if he isn’t just waiting her out (as majicksand wrote, by respecting her original desire not to have sex anymore).
Time to find out the what the situation is with him and you won’t know unless you talk. Then accept the outcome even if it hurts. There are other men, and she is keeping herself from meeting one by staying in this ‘friendship’ rut.
wonderfultonight
wrote on September 10 2009 @ 12:22 pm: [report]
The assumption that he might be gay reminds me of the reverse situation in college. A guy would often say “you must be a lesbian” if you didn’t particularly want to have sex with HIM.