Are Fashion Experts Out Of Touch With Middle America?

*sam*
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 01:16 pm: [report]

ugh. I’ve NEVER been one to dress fashionably or wear designer labels, mainly just b/c I’ve always been more interested in other things that don’t have to do with how I look, but, every now and then, I get an inkling that I would *like* to start dressing better, and splurge on a designer or two b/c (typically) they’re of better quality. however, when I read stories like this, all I can think to myself is: “omg, I’m SO glad to hear your industry is having one of it’s worst slumps of all time. and to be honest, I hope your snobbery and condescending attitude bring it crashing down on you, completely ruining your $5,000 designer shoes. get over yourself. I hope you find yourself jobless and poor and are forced to sell all of your designer labels and your uptown apartment and have to live in somewhere far-less desirable. maybe then you’ll grow to have an appreciation and an understanding of just how out of touch you are.”

excuse me while I go vomit now.

Coral
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 01:22 pm: [report]

Wow, what that woman wrote was definitely bitchy and uncalled for. However, I find myself that it is hard to find clothes in more mainstream stores in my size—ones that fit right, look good, good texture, etc. I am also a size 2. And stores obviously stock size 2, but by the time I see the racks, the only ones that are left are upwards of 6, 8, 10, etc. I can take a size 4 and o a lot of tailoring and sewing on it because I’m an accomplished sewer, but it’s not always worth my time. Although I have never actually been to a J.C. Penney, I do think that maybe their customer base are not going to be buying size 2s and 4s.

Ghirardelli
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 01:23 pm: [report]

Well that’s certainly insulting. I personally don’t like JC Penny’s but I go to other stores like it. I love to look my best but under no circumstances will I ever pay 500 dollars for a “cheap” skirt. It’s not worth it to me. I would rather spend money to go on vacation with my family then for a piece of cloth that might not even fit me when I throw it in the washing machine. “Middle American” wtf. How about the majority of America. The fashion industry has this idea of beauty and what it should be. I don’t think being skin and bones is beautiful. And from what I’ve heard from my guy friends, they don’t think so either. She probably feels no remorse, so f*** you bitch.

moonblossom
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 01:30 pm: [report]

@Ghirardelli - excellent comment!

jimnist10
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 01:43 pm: [report]

I am 5’2” and 120lbs. Yes, I’m a size 2/4 and I’ve been to the new J.C. Penny at Herald Square. It’s AMAZING! They carry peitie jeans that aren’t made for grandmothers!  I bought 2 pairs of Levi’s jeans for $34.99 each! And they fit like a dream! And I didn’t have the normal “jeans shopping” trauma of either not finding jeans short enough, cute enough, the right fit… I acutally felt good trying on the arm full of jeans I managed to find there!  It’s true that if you are smaller it’s hard to find your size at a place like J.C. Penny, but since it’s opened, I’ve been there 4 times and have nothing but positive things to say about that store. The sales staff is friendly, the dressing rooms are clean and the store is well-stocked and organized and the clothes are just as nice as going to Macy’s or the Gap or Ann Taylor Loft.  Ok, so it’s not Chanel, but most people’s live don’t really work with a Chanel suit. Oh! And there’s a Sephora right in the J.C. Penny! Cute, affordable clothes AND new makeup is more than a girl could ask for! After I read this article on Monday (?) Tuesday (?) I just kept thinking how friggn’ snobby and clueless and bitchy Ms. Wilson is. No wonder people think Manhattanites are such stuck up a-holes. I personally will keep shopping at JCP and pair my I heart Ronson duds with my Gucci heels.

GreenAura
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 01:43 pm: [report]

I’m not ashamed at all to say that I purchase certain things at JC Penny’s.  I’m 5’1”, size 2 and JC Penny’s has a decent collection of petite trousers that fit great and are perfect for work.  Sorry if I am only spending $40 a pair instead of $400 a pair.  I just figured that eating was a little more important.  Not that I expect someone like Cintra Wilson to understand that concept.

Coral
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 01:49 pm: [report]

For the cheaper clothes that I buy, I tend to go toward Gap, Ann Taylor, H&M, and Forever 21 (I’m only 18 so I can still shop there). But maybe I will go to a JC Penney. But I would rather have fewer clothes if they are all of a higher quality than have a whole wardrobe full of cheap, not very long lasting clothes.

sklut
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 02:05 pm: [report]

Get a f***ing clue lady the majority of America whether you realize it or not lives OUTSIDE of New York and refuses to spend more than $60 on a normal pair of jeans. So take your ridiculously snooty article and choke on it.

Ellis
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 02:07 pm: [report]

Haha Coral, please don’t say you buy cheap clothes from Ann Taylor…that is where I get my fancy clothes from right now.  I’m going to go shuffle about and cry a little.

I can’t stand people who cop Wilson’s attitude.  If you enjoy wearing expensive, trendy clothes, good for you.  Go right ahead.  But there’s no reason to belittle the rest of us for not feeling the same way.  It’s so absurd and judgmental - such a limited, self-centered perspective to take.

Coral
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 02:15 pm: [report]

@Ellis: I don’t mean to offend anyone. I am still in Middle America, but I realize that I may have more money than others. I work very hard at my age and I like to wear QUALITY clothes. Not all designer clothes are quality—some people don’t realize that. But I can’t always afford quality, long-lasting clothes. And I don’t like trendy clothes particularly. I just dress to fit my multiple styles. But I also didn’t mean to say that Ann Taylor was dirt cheap or anything, because it’s not. I’m not a judgmental person. If people want to wear trash bags, I could care less. People should wear whatever suits them. I don’t judge people on their clothing choices or where they shop. I just prefer myself to shop at particular places—that’s all.

DancerNinja
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 02:31 pm: [report]

I’m proud to say that my three favorite pairs of jeans were from JC Penny’s and all $25 each. After tearing my hair out at normal jean venues, Buckle, Gap, Express, American Eagle, Sevens, etc., I found $25 jeans that FIT! Holy cow!

And for that alone, I will always have a warm spot in my heart for JC Penny’s.

FashionGypsy
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 03:02 pm: [report]

So true. Many people, specially during these difficult economic times cannot afford a $500 skirt or designer apparel. However, looking good does not have to be that expensive nor exclusive for those with less financial concerns. For budget fashion tips, go to http://fashion-gypsy.blogspot.com/

Lynn
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 03:14 pm: [report]

Ok, I actually like JCP. It always seems like a grandma’s store but I have found my share of hidden treasures in there so I swallow any pride and just jump in there with the old ladies.

But I cannot recall ever seeing an obese mannequin. I don’t know if their mannequins are larger than other stores - I guess I haven’t cared or even though to notice - but just because a mannequin is not a size 2 doesn’t make it “obese.”

I get that maybe it’s sometimes a struggle to find things in a size 2 - and yeah, that sucks. But most women have something that makes dressing a struggle so suck it up and just don’t go to the stores that don’t cater to you. Easy peasy.

joyy
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 03:17 pm: [report]

I will never stop getting a kick out of how obnoxious people are who actually think they are better than others because of their fashion choices/the fact that they live in NYC.  If you’re into fashion and that stuff gets your rocks off, by all means have at it.  But the very phrase “Middle America” just makes me laugh, is that a geographic or a socioeconomic reference?  Or both?  Clinging the idea that NYC & the fashion industry > the rest of the US is sad and myopic. 
 
And $500 for a skirt?  Why spend on one item of clothing enough money for a plane ticket or even a whole vacation.  I’ll take my awesome second-hand store finds, local hand-crafted jewelry, and having a life over dropping entire paychecks on whatever designers and fashion mag editors say is cool ANY day.

Claireific
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 03:33 pm: [report]

I chuckle at this article, because when high fashion is *desperately* trying to avoid having the ground fall out from under them without actually discounting their wares or you know, doing anything to preserve themselves, women like this one are only contributing to the classist alienation that has resulted in their downfall. Lady, your snobbery is directly contributing to your industry’s collapse. I agree with @*sam*, I have a bit schadenfreude. This woman is one of the few that deserves joblessness. She brought it on herself.

Claireific
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 03:36 pm: [report]

I also like that her retraction said “...abuse from our very shallow and ridiculous society.” Shallow and ridiculous? Oh, you mean YOURSELF? Comparing non-size 0 people to the cast of Roseanne? You mean childish and insecure people like YOURS EFFING TRULY?

Kathls
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 03:41 pm: [report]

REPULSIVE.  When did it become a crime against fashion to buy attractive clothing that fits within the average person’s budget?  I hate to break it to the fashionistas in New York, Milan, and Paris; you can actually find cute clothing at most American department stores, whether it be JC Penney’s, Macy’s, etc.  In fact I bought the dress I wore to my brother’s wedding from JC Penney’s and received more than a few handfuls of complements of how nice it looked.  And none of those people were wearing overalls, missing teeth, live in a trailer, or hang out at swap meets every weekend.

Not that the fashion elite’s opinion of us commoners has been a secret, but I found this article particularly disgusting.  I could care less if someone tells me the new ‘it’ fashion is xyz brand of jeans and they cost $300 a pair.  Guess what, the tag is on the inside of the pants, and unless you’re a moronic snob who tells anyone within earshot how much they cost, then what does it matter?  I would hope that most people know that the label and the price tag don’t equate to quality and attractiveness. 

I’m not even sure how I make it through a JC Penney’s without vomiting because I have to look at all their obese mannequins.  It’s like looking at a bunch of beached whales in cheap maxi-dresses and tapered leg jeans!!  Excuse me while I go gag at the thought of such fashion atrocities.

Amy
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 05:17 pm: [report]

I read this article several days ago and was appalled. Appalled, and embarrassed at myself because I actually felt some SHAME that I shop at JCP and because I’m the dreaded size - GASP! - 10/12. I know, I should be killed right now. I am decidedly fashionable and fashion-conscious (though not a trend whore), and my friend A and I always say that our secret place for cool stuff is JCP. You can almost always find something there that’s hip and affordable, but a lot of people won’t venture in, thinking it’s only for old ladies. Wrong. There’s a plus-size section that has mannequins that are maybe a 14, and the rest are standard and smaller, so this idea that the mannequins are all enormous is delusional. I think the thing that really stuck w/me was how she says that regular sizes at JCP are several times bigger than if you’d go to a (one assumes) high-end boutique. But which one is catering to actual women? These stores that only carry sizes up to 8 are setting OUT to be exclusionary and nasty.

melissaann
wrote on August 14 2009 @ 09:43 pm: [report]

Well, Cintra Wilson should thank her lucky stars that its size eight, jc penny shoppin’, middle americans who are buying The New York Times and paying her salary.

Ellis
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 08:12 am: [report]

@Coral no no, you didn’t offend me!  I was just a tad depressed at the categorization, haha.  I would put places like Forever 21 leagues away from places like Ann Taylor.  Stuff I’ve bought from F21 falls apart after 2 washes, and fits/feels kind of weird even off the rack.  Stuff from Ann Taylor fits right, holds up well, and is made for the most part from quality materials.  Essentially, for me being a long-time student means that while I can afford to pay for quality, I can’t afford to pay for a label.  I agree with you about wanting fewer, higher-quality clothes rather than a slew of low-quality ones; I think our budgets and, correspondingly, our definitions of those categories are just a little different, lol.

Oh - and I’m not Middle America, although New York high fashion is hardly my scene.  What’s with the weird geographical stereotypes from Wilson?  Oh well, I’m sure it’s the least of her worries.

lawyrgrl
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 08:25 am: [report]

Somewhat off topic but after reading the posts about finding reasonably priced clothes i had to chime in.  I need decent looking clothes for work but absolutely REFUSE to spend a fortune on them.  I have had really good luck recently on Amazon.com - especially with shoes and dresses.  Their stuff is brand name but usually at a heavy discount.  I have gotten several compliments on pieces and when I tell them where I got it I alway hear “Amazon?  Really?!!?”  I never knew they sold good stuff either until I stumbled on it by accident.  Just a thought! 

*sam*
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 08:51 am: [report]

@Lynn: not that it really matters, but, when I worked at Kohl’s (gasp, yes, I know) all of our mannequins were a size 4/6 for the misses dept and a 3/5 for juniors. (they make them to ‘fit’ 2 sizes so it’s easier to keep them dressed lol). correct me if I’m wrong, but, I’m pretty sure that’s the *standard* mannequin size, which, gasp, is probably what’s in her upscale trendy boutiques. maybe she saw how many *average* people were in JCP and how they’re “grotesquely obese” (i.e., larger than a 2) and just *assumed* the mannequins were all size 16/18s (b/c she’s so jaded that she can’t tell the difference anymore)??

Coral
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 09:13 am: [report]

@Ellis: Oh, I know Forever 21 is definitely in a different league than Ann Taylor. But because I’m young, and their clothes are really cheap in my opinion, it can’t hurt to buy their clothes sometimes, because Forever 21 does have some cute stuff. Hopefully I will be able to keep my job because I’m going to college soon, but I will put my priorities straight and unfortunately clothes aren’t at the top of my list. Lol.

Normally, I wouldn’t classify myself as Middle America. I think that term is stupid. But I consider myself to be average, middle class, etc.

LunaLena
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 10:01 am: [report]

@lawyrgrl

I know, it’s amazing what you can find on the Internet sometimes!  I have a few pieces of clothing that I bought on eBay that I love because they’re unique and pretty.  People always ask me where I got them, and are shocked when I say eBay.  And even with shipping, they were amazingly inexpensive too.  There are a lot of people who sell brand-name clothes super cheap on eBay as well.

I also love shopping at outlet stores like Ross and Marshall’s.  All of my favorite jeans came from those stores, cost me about $17 each, and fit beautifully.  I even once got a pretty The Limited skirt for $7 on clearance at Marshall’s. 

Another surprising venue for inexpensive, good quality clothes?  Victoria’s Secret.  I’ve gotten a lot of clothes off their online catalog during clearance sales.  A lot of people aren’t even aware that VS sells clothes, and are surprised when I tell them where I got some of my favorite sweaters and t-shirts.  The shipping is a bit high, but they often have deals like free shipping for orders over $100, and if you get together with some friends, you can fill $100 in no time.

Coral
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 10:22 am: [report]

@lunalena: Marshalls and Victoria’s Secret are great places to find clothes. I love those stores.

MissChaotic
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 11:05 am: [report]

I’m sorry, but the only thing that I can buy at Jc Penneys are socks and linens. There are NO CLOTHES that fit me there (all too big), and hell, the bras don’t even come in my size.

I’ve gotten a cute pair of shoes from there once at least.

Granted, her article was snarky, but JC Penney seems to neglect their size 0-4 counterparts (I being on the smaller side of that scale). Conversely, I have seen some adorable outfits for mid-range sizes (4 - 16), but anything over a 16 classifies into mu-mu territory (which was bad news when my mom was an 18….she’s now a size 12).

Personally, I think they could use better buyers/style analysts for their larger sizes. And I also think they could sell smaller sizes….their misses department has some fabulous finds from Bisou Bisou.

ahw
wrote on August 15 2009 @ 02:27 pm: [report]

I hate Penny’s.  Their size 0 in juniors is too big for me.  At other stores, I’m a 2, or at the very LEAST a 0.

loveitlala
wrote on August 16 2009 @ 07:46 am: [report]

Ross, Marshall’s, TJ Maxx, Stein Mart, Kohl’s… have some of the cheapest cute clothes if you look hard.  It’s how I afford my $200 jeans…!

loveitlala
wrote on August 16 2009 @ 07:52 am: [report]

Oh and I know we’re talking about fashion, but in terms of home discounts Tuesday Morning can’t be beat.  I’ve gotten a $500 Calvin Klein duvet for $50.

ooi0katzy0ioo
wrote on August 16 2009 @ 02:06 pm: [report]

What a bitch!  Fashion and style can’t be priced!  You don’t have to spend wads of cash to look fashionable.  You either got it or you don’t.  If you want to spend loads of money on designer duds then that’s up to you.  But telling everyone they aren’t stylish just because they can’t afford to buy the latest chanel outfit or prada bag then that’s just wrong…  Woman needs to get slapped upside her head!!

Chebs
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 08:16 am: [report]

I personally like JCP, but I have noticed when I’ve gone with my younger sisters (both 0s), nothing ever fits them unless they go to the kids department.  And at 21 and 16, that’s not happening.  So, I can understand why the original author would get upset - they’re supposed to fit all sizes with age appropriate wear, and yet her size 2 self found nothing.  But she went way over the line.  Looking classy isn’t going to help you if you can’t act classy as well.

EarthGoddess
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:10 pm: [report]

Wow ... I guess I’m one of the few remaining people who still shop at designer outlets. I am very girlie in most ways, but I cannot stand malls and can’t afford to spend very much on clothes for me ... but I make sure my daughter is dressed to impress all the time since she loves fashion already. (I work from home, though, so I have the luxury of wearing PJs M-F anyway.) I don’t think I’ve ever spent more than $25 for jeans ... who cares if they’re a season or 2 or 3 old? I live in a small town where no one would know the difference anyway ... to a lot of the older folks here, NYC might as well be Paris. (I’m a little more worldly than that and I love NY, but hate attitudes like Wilson’s.) I’ve shopped in Manhattan before, but it’s always been at little boutiques where you can get much cooler stuff for far less money. However, for most things I make a trip to the designer outlets not far from here twice a year and get everything I need for very little money ... or I shop online clearance sales. Spending $500 on a skirt is crazy to me ... that’s several outfits’ worth of money!!!

writergirl
wrote on August 17 2009 @ 12:24 pm: [report]

I don’t shop at JC Penny’s other than for home stuff (great curtains!) but that is because the two near me have horrible merchandise.  I HAVE bought stuff their, but not on a regular basis.  Their stock is too hit or miss as far as finding something I like.

That said, if you put your mind to it, you can find fashion at whatever price you are interested in paying.  The $500 skirt has a knock off for $25 somewhere that will be easy to find.  One of my favorite things to do when I need clothes is find a really expensive outfit in the catalogues or the magazines and find a replica at a much cheaper price.  It may not be EXACT—but pretty damn close.

The NYT writer’s article just reeks of snobbery and classism.  And is completely off base.

BlueVibe
wrote on August 25 2009 @ 09:31 am: [report]

From the vantage point of an utter and total fashion-industry outsider (meaning me), the fashion industry seems to be some kind of twilight zone.  What is cool, is cool because they said it was.  But it wasn’t cool last year and in a few months it will be at best a faux pas, at worst a tragedy that gets you humiliated on cable television.  Haute couture is fashion that nobody could possibly wear in real life.  It’s not really clothing; it’s sculpture.  So why is it even included in the “fashion industry” when it’s not meant for humans to wear.  Fashion models have to be unhealthily thin so that clothing “hangs right,” instead of having clothing designed to fit and flatter normal bodies (oh, give me the Forties when they knew how to cut a dress!).

None of it has anything to do with real clothes, anyway.

taelani
wrote on November 3 2009 @ 10:08 am: [report]

I know this article is older, but I wanted to comment because I found this great online store that sells designer clothes for 15$!  I would love to shove that store in that chicks face there are pages and pages of designer clothes for only 15 dollars, its all the leftovers from photo shoots and stuff, and I love it!  I would love to wear on of these for outfits in front of her and tell her to stick it!!  But for the rest of you who might like something designer and fun for less, check it out, I buy there constantly! 15dollarstore.com