Are Date-Rape Drugs An Urban Myth?

Goldfinch86
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:14 pm: [report]

I think it’s common for women to underestimate the power of the drinks they are consuming, especially when it comes to sweet drinks associated with women. I have been a dummy myself and consumed wine till I was beyond drunk and not realized I drank all that and more and was totally inhibited. That being said I think that can happen to many young women I don’t feel this article is really victim blaming so much as pointing out that the popularity of the drug itseld is not as common as we think. I don’t feel being to drunk to say no or fight back is a crime and i think it’s stupid to assume this is victim blaming so much as pointing to something that might be a truth.  That being said I also think if parents stopped demonizing alcohol and sex young women would not be so apt to over drink when they are they are cut loose just because it’s fun and no one can tell you what to do.

tubbyhumptydance
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:24 pm: [report]

For years and years many people, both men and women have been trying to claim date rape in cases of bad or regrettable sex. It is not my fault you felt prettier when you are drunk, and you have more self confidence.

Hell, I brought home a girl who seemed completely normal at the club (although very aggressive on the dance floor)and who I had only seen have 1 long island iced tea. The next morning she insisted I MUST have drugged her because there is no way with her “Christian” upbringing she would have a one night stand! It took a full 25 minutes of talking with the girl and realizing she really hadn’t ever drunk strong drinks like a long island for her to realize that maybe she didn’t have a very high tolerance for booze and that I was a genuinely nice guy, who swept her off her feet.

Had I not been very well spoken, sweet and very convincing she could have easily called the cops and had my fat ass arrested.

We need more extensive sex ed in this world, so young women learn to understand the difference between ” regrettable sexual choices” and rape.

_jsw_
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:25 pm: [report]

A friend of mine, who happens to be an ex, was raped and tests confirmed Rohypnol in her system. This was many years ago, so I doubt the situation has improved much and has likely gotten worse.

I agree that women are likely overestimating their risk - there aren’t all that many men (percentage-wise) who will obtain and use a drug that allows them to rape helpless women. However, the risk is certainly there. It’s not an urban myth.

But yes, there are plenty of women who get raped the old-fashioned way by getting so drunk they can no longer control themselves or the situation. And men who would never drug a woman but who would certainly take advantage of a drunken woman who doesn’t reject them… that sort of man is everywhere.

So, no, I don’t think date rape drugs are an urban myth, but I don’t think it matters even if they were, because, as mentioned, there are plenty of other things women (and men) should be concerned with when allowing themselves to become vulnerable.

bumbler
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:36 pm: [report]

I do see a lot of overindulging by young women on a regular basis.  I also see it in young men but rarely to the point that they are almost unconscious.  The thing that scares me about that is that these young women are usually in a crowded area like Riverfront or the Hard Rock where it is so easy to lose someone just by looking away for an instant.  They’re relying on their friends to keep them safe (most of whom have had a few drinks themselves) and they just look incredibly vulnerable to me. 

Also I have a condition that makes it difficult for me to control my body’s sugar levels.  If I over indulge in a particularly sugary drink not only would I feel the effects of the alcohol but also sugar crashing which can cause problems with vision, ringing in my ears, feeling flushed and ultimately fainting.  Both of my parents have the same issue and weren’t diagnosed until later in life so it’s something young people may not be aware of.

Ultimately this article should not prevent young women from protecting their drinks because even though it may not be as common as some people think it’s still a very real threat.

sportzriter13
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:40 pm: [report]

It doesn’t matter if someone is drugged or very drunk; they cannot give legal consent for sex. It doesn’t matter how they got that way. It’s still sexual assault. A good person will not take a yes from someone who clearly isn’t of sound mind. If they have sex, they’re a creep.
Having a dad whose a cop we did go over this. I never went to any drinking parties (most I had was a parent-sanctioned sip of this or that. which is legal, by the way). He also teaches a class called RAD for women (rape/aggression defense). They go over “drinking safety”. Don’t have too much (you become vulnerable to rape), don’t accept a drink from someone you don’t know, and don’t leave an open drink unattended. I don’t care if the risks are smaller. When I’m “of age” I’d rather be safe then sorry.
If someone is inebriated or drugged, they can’t give legal consent for sex. Anyone who tries to have sex with someone in that state of mind is scum. The gentlemen (and ladies) of this world would say “I’m sorry but I don’t think you’re in the right state of mind right now. I want you to sober up first.”
right?

lostrun
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:40 pm: [report]

_jsw_ is right..there are more men out there willing to have sex w/ a highly intoxicated woman than actually drugging someone.  What comes to mind is the scene from 40 year old Virgin where Steve Carrell’s character is told to find a drunk woman.  I think people should be educated on the fact is if someone can’t give consent w/ a clear mind, it can be considered rape.

MuchoMacho
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:40 pm: [report]

a close personal friend (male) was out for a group members birthday.  a female group member was all over him in the limo from the get-go.  they slipped out of the bar early and had sex.  she had a boyfriend.  the next day he gets a facebook message from the boyfriend threatening his life for “raping” his girlfriend.  fellow group-members came to his defense and she was publically and horrifically shamed.  i believe the date rape drug is out there and in circulation, but i also know girls are taking advantage of it as a myth…

sportzriter13
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:42 pm: [report]

also bear in mind-women usually become intoxicated quicker and with less alcohol then men. It’s the way we’re built.

MuchoMacho
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:43 pm: [report]

@sports - so in your opinion, no one who drinks should have sex?  interesting.  i always found it odd how someone could say ‘i was too innebriated to consent’ when the sex was with someone equally as inebriated.  i wonder if two wasted people could charge each other with rape?

sportzriter13
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:49 pm: [report]

@muchomacho-I don’t know, I’m just saying that’s the law. I think it depends on how a person handles their liquor and how intoxicated they are.
I’m talking about absolutely s***faced. Not a simple buzz from a drink or two (or whatever it is; I’ve never drunk because I’m underage).
I’d probably place my guideline at too drunk to drive…or walk.
and no, I don’t think it’s right for a person to cry “rape” if it wasn’t. If you make a poor decision, like letting yourself get out of hand, I still would say “shame on you”

MuchoMacho
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:51 pm: [report]

it becomes a fuzzy line when youre out drinking.  no one has a breathalyzer by their bedside.  its too bad, because it disgusts me when a situation like youre describing happens (fairly sober person takes advantage of someone wasted)...  but ive had wasted sex with someone also wasted, and thought the next day that one or the other of us could make trouble if we were so inclined.  people can be real shyts.

Raugiel
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:51 pm: [report]

@ MuchoMacho - Presumably no, because neither would have the proper mental state of intent to force the other to have sex. Zero sum game.

Jillybean
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:52 pm: [report]

I agree that some women might say they were drugged when they were, in fact, simply very drunk, but the tone of the Daily Mail article is just asking for a blow up. Good on the Frisky for taking a more rational viewpoint.

A friend and I were drugged when we were out in the middle of the afternoon. I won’t lie, we were tipsy at the time, but in the space of one beer we lost all rationality. The guy I think did it invited us back to his place but we were having too much fun. The barman then chased him out. He came back after the barman’s shift ended and we headed for another pub. It was a bizarre experience. Said barman’s tattoo was actually dancing on his skin. I ended up snogging a guy on the subway for no reason. My friend never left town (in fact I left her in town alone, something I’ve never done when I’ve been drunk) and stayed in a hotel for the night. The hotel staff had to look after her as she was violently ill.

It was our own stupid faults though - we never should have drank what the guy gave us. We thought he was just being polite. So that’s my lesson for you - don’t drink anything you don’t get yourself and don’t leave your drinks unattended and you practically eliminate the risk.

sportzriter13
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:53 pm: [report]

@MM-“I don’t know” is referring to if two people can charge each other with rape. Maybe if one could prove the other had intent?

sportzriter13
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:55 pm: [report]

@jillybean-thank god you two didn’t end up worse. For your suggestions I say “right on”. Always use “common sense”.

40yrolddad
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:58 pm: [report]

it’s human nature to grossly exaggerate ANY low probability/high trauma threat - that’s how we end up w/laws like “Patriot Act” & sex offender registries…  there’s been lots of psychology research to understand this phenomenon (which unfortunately politicians put into practice)...

MuchoMacho
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 03:58 pm: [report]

@jilly - sad story.  sorry.  we had a friend at a houseparty my freshman year suddenly black out on the floor.  someone saw a local scum ball dropping stuff in her drink, and we kicked his ass.  he still lives in town and i still make him leave whenever i walk into a bar hes in 9 years later.

Jillybean
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 04:02 pm: [report]

My friend and I were very lucky - the bartender was looking out for us (I don’t know if he suspected or just thought we were very drunk or what) and we were both together.

I’m super careful these days. As well as common sense - I think it’s good that people aren’t afraid to band together like MuchoMacho says.

joyy
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 04:14 pm: [report]

Alcohol is the most common date rape drug.  That said, the perception of likelihood of someone putting something in your drink is probably overestimated, but the precautions to prevent against it don’t have any ill affects so there’s no point in downplaying the very possible dangers or huffing and puffing about people overexaggerating the risk.

SouthOC
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 05:02 pm: [report]

This reminds me of an old joke… “What does an Engineer use for birth control?”  Answer:  “His personality.”

Point being, I wish we lived in a world where men would (or at least try to) woo women the old fashioned way - with charm, and didn’t feel the need to resort to dirty tricks like too much alcohol or drugs.

SouthOC
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 05:03 pm: [report]

For those of you who may not get the joke:  Engineers are known for being boring - so they don’t see much action.

Knitter79
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 05:24 pm: [report]

Hey!  I’m an engineer and I get plenty of action, thank you very much.

retro chic
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 05:38 pm: [report]

I agree with her that the most interesting aspect of this study is trying to understand why women have come to think the chances of having their drink spiked are higher than they actually are.

First off: women get roofied, I’m not saying otherwise. And there is no excuse for that. But, in addition to some parents scaring their kids into some abstract fear, I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest that nearly every commonplace condition has a diagnostic or crisis label for it, perpetuated by peer/group-think. It absolves people of taking personal responsibility ‘cause it’s either not their fault or not in their control. Problems are much more dramatic when it has some external cause, so exceptional it has a special name for it. We are living in society of victims and patients waiting for a crisis and a diagnosis. The sensationalism of the media is not helping either.

Why drink less, or more safely and responsibly when you can look to others to blame? That’s not nearly as convenient or dramatic. 

I will even hear my daughter’s friends, at the tender age of 12, seriously talk about being dyslexic or ADD when one of them didn’t pay attention to a teachers’ instructions, didn’t study, then did poorly on a test. Drama ensues. That kind of conditioning sets up other skewed and escalated perceptions that are carried into adulthood that to me could partly explain this perceived “roofie crisis.”

Again: Women get roofied and there is NO EXCUSE for that. I’m merely offering other shades of behavior that have not be considered here yet. Out on a limb, I’m used to it.

@40yrolddad: I would agree with you about the Patriot Act, ‘cause that serves a multitude of agendas the government had been dying to implement for years, but, I take exception to the Sex Registry comparison to this story. Many times the SR is offered to a first-time offender as part of a guilty plea deal to not serve prison time to a reduced charge – their choice – can’t have it all.

BlueVibe
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 07:58 pm: [report]

There are a lot of things going on here:

1) The media is going to snap up and sensationalize anything that is this potentially scary.  The horror of it is that it’s something that you can’t see coming: You don’t know you’ve been drugged until it’s too late and you’re doped and vulnerable.  Yeah, scary though.

2) Date-rape drugs are NOT an urban myth.  However, I don’t think they are as looming a risk as a lot of people think.

3) As much as I hate to think this of my fellow humans: Yes, I suspect that there are women—very few women, I hope—who have used drugging as an excuse for moronic and/or regrettable things they did when they were simply drunk.

4) As the always-sensible Frisky readers have pointed out, it’s a largely controllable risk.  I hate to be a wet blanket, but getting sloshed in public places accompanied by people you don’t know well is flat-out not a good idea.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 08:15 pm: [report]

@jsw: Rohypnol metabolizes in the body quite fast…are you sure that your friend tested positive?

_jsw_
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 08:25 pm: [report]

@CheeeeEEEEse: Yup, sure. It’s testable in urine for 1-3 days, but she had blood test confirmation because the idiot drugged her again later in the evening back at her place (I guess the idea was to rape her again and hope he could leave before she came out of it) and her friend discovered him there and her out of it and called the police. Otherwise, yes, it’s hard to prove because often the victim is out of it for too long to realize they need to get tested and then to arrange that test.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 08:40 pm: [report]

Gotcha. Extenuating circumstances…I can sometimes lay in bed almost last long after drinking.

faithjoy
wrote on October 27 2009 @ 10:29 pm: [report]

Hi, I am a bartender, and once I was drugged.  I am used to drinking, but one night, it was a lot different.  I felt really out of it all of a sudden and it was when I was working.  I ended up at the hospital and was tested for Rohydral (sp), and tested positive.  In my opinion, I would say that anyone experienced with drinking should know the difference between drinking and being drugged.  It took one drink for me to go from remembering a conversation to not knowing anything.  I’m not sure how common this is, but the police at the hospital here said it wasn’t “uncommon”.  Always watch your drink, I have no idea what the plans were for me, but thank God my co-workers caught it!

ChoJinn
wrote on October 28 2009 @ 07:16 am: [report]

Having worked in the service industry for a time, I can attest that use of date-rape substances - probably more GHB than rohyponol - is definitely real, although fortunately not prevalent.  There is a stark difference between a person’s condition after imbibing too much, and a person’s condition after having their drink spiked.  I also managed to see a former teammate, after taking down his pretty blonde girlfriend’s Budweiser 20 minutes into a party attended by three random, sketchy Salvadorians, collapse, rushed to a hospital and nearly die.  Alcohol this does not do.

Ladies, watch your drinks!

Riley
wrote on October 28 2009 @ 07:40 am: [report]

@Retro - I agree with you.  Spiked drinks happen, but many people are starting to use “drink spiked” as an excuse for letting themselves get out of control.  As you said, one more thing that someone doesn’t have to take responsibility for.  “There must have been something in that, I’m never that drunk!”

This happened just last weekend to a friend of mine.  He had an early Halloween get-together and a friend of a friend felt the need to drink more than her 110-pound body could handle. 

Next day, he gets numerous calls from mutual friends about this poor girl getting drugged.  When asked what she had to drink her friends replied with, “shots before getting there, shots and beer while there and a few more shots of whiskey once home.”  All in a 4-hour period.  She got violent and then got sick.  Being stupid and drinking too much =/= being drugged.

SouthOC
wrote on October 28 2009 @ 09:28 am: [report]

@Knitter79:  No offense intended.  I work with a lot of Engineers, and most of them are pretty cool dudes.  Some of them totally match the “pocket protector” stereotype though…

C.Munro
wrote on October 28 2009 @ 09:56 am: [report]

Before the date-rape hoopla was all over the news, my friends and I used to wash down roofies with 40s of Olde English for fun.  Nobody got raped.  The effects of this combination are very obviously druggy, not at all like just being too drunk. 

And while I think it important that women be aware of the way straight alcohol affects them (and not drink too much), it does not hurt one bit to be aware of one’s surroundings.  I have seen female friends of mine get intoxicated suspiciously quickly on a night out, like slurring after three drinks, and the only logical conclusion is that they’d been drugged. 

Used as an excuse for getting too drunk?  Probably sometimes.  Still worth being cautious over?  Absolutely.

KClay
wrote on October 30 2009 @ 01:55 pm: [report]

Before people cry “date rape drug” another thing to consider is medication that the person may be on.  If someone is on a prescription, it may interact with the alcohol that they consume to make them waaay drunker.  It could even be something as innocent as a prescription cough medicine (codeine?), that could knock you on your @$$.

kit1811
wrote on October 31 2009 @ 05:05 pm: [report]

This article, the study it references and the comments herein are all great thought prompts to examine how we’ve come to view ourselves as potential victims. 
Everyone, women, men, children. We’re hyper-aware of external dangers, and, women especially, seem to have draped ourselves in being indignant, sometimes relying on it as a prosecutorial weapon, rather than taking the defensive tactic of not getting ourselves into stupid positions in the first place. Please don’t misunderstand me - I’m not about blaming the victim - when there is a victim. Getting sh*tfaced distorts everything - for men as well as women. Neither party acts rationally, good judgment disappears. It’s all well and good to say that any decent man wouldn’t take advantage of a drunken woman - but what if they’re both drunken louts? One could argue that a decent woman wouldn’t get that drunk. Why is his lack of self-control inexcusable and hers not?  Seriously?  I think continuing to paint all regretful situations with the same “she got taken advantage of” brush infantilizes women. We all, men and women, need to own ourselves a lot more than we do.

That being said, drugging someone is indefensible and I sorely wish we could prosecute that crime better than we can right now. Putting something in someone’s food or drink requires pre-meditation and there can never be benign intent involved.  Hang those folks high.

bbblondie
wrote on November 1 2009 @ 11:04 pm: [report]

Speaking from experience: They are NOT an urban myth. Maybe they’re not as common as people think, but all I know is that one night out in Italy, I had ONE mixed drink and was as messed up as I’ve ever been. However, I am not the type of irresponsible floozy this article and the comments following it like to paint: I had a group of friends with me who were smart enough to realize something was wrong and took good care of me. But as far as I’m concerned, this is irresponsible journalism. Absolutely, women (and men) should be aware of their alcohol intake, but does it hurt anyone to ALSO be aware of their surroundings, watch their drinks, and make sure they ARE with people they can trust so if this “urban myth” occurs, or even if it doesn’t and they just happen to have had a few too many, they don’t have to worry about winding up a statistic?

develange
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 12:53 am: [report]

I don’t know about anyone else, but my alcohol tolerance isn’t always consistent. Some nights I can have three drinks, be fine, the next night it could get me hammered.

I try to take responsibility for my actions when I’m drunk (well, take responsibility the next day). Being an obnoxious douche? Check. Having regrettable sexual encounters? Check. But thankfully, I’ve never been assaulted or raped while doing stupid, unsafe drunk things, like stumbling home by myself in the dark.

I prefer drinking with people who I know will take care of me, as I try to take care of them, even in our obliterated states. The don’t accept drinks from strangers is always a good rule to follow, unless the bartender is pouring it and handing it to you.  I’m sure bartenders have drugged people, but…I suppose I’ll take that risk.

It’s sad that women have to worry about these things :(

Knitter79
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 05:55 pm: [report]

I had a conversation with a co-worker this morning dealing with this subject.  Her son was at a frat party on Halloween, drinking of course and having a good time.  Fast forward a few hours, a couple of his friends went looking for him and found him passed out in a bedroom.  One of them was sober enough to realize something was wrong and managed to wake him up.  He had no idea where he was, how he got there or what he had done in the few hours he was ‘missing’.  The sober guy took him to the ER thinking he had alcohol poisoning and the doctor was smart enough to run tests.  He tested positive for one of the date rape drugs (I forget which one she said it was).

They didn’t know who it was that slipped him the drugs, but apparently he was ‘collateral damage’.  Whoever had the drugs had put them in a few of the drinks and it being a frat party cups were shared.  At least two women were supposedly drugged that night too, though they didn’t report it officially.  One of them wandered home naked, no idea where her clothes were.  She wouldn’t go to the ER though or report it because she was underage and afraid her parents would get mad.

One side-effect of over-reporting is that people that are true victims often don’t see the point of reporting an actual crime because they think no one will believe them (because so many before them had lied about it).  But I do see that unless a woman is beaten in the process, the first reaction of the police or even friends is to blame the victim or not believe that she was raped.

Knitter79
wrote on November 2 2009 @ 05:59 pm: [report]

@SouthOC.  No worries.  I’ve been around enough engineers to know the stereotype can be completely accurate.