A Senator Is A Senator, Even If She’s Also A Lady
Posted by: Jessica Wakeman
Filed in:
news
11:40AM, Tuesday November 10th 2009
Wow, I know politicians fight dirty, but resorting to woman-on-woman sexism in campaign ads is pretty low. Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard, is challenging current Senator Barbara Boxer for her Congressional seat. Fine and dandy, right? It’s actually pretty cool that one woman is challenging another woman for her seat.
But Fiorina’s campaign just sent out the most ridiculous that-lady-needs-to-be-put-in-her-place email I’ve ever read. To quote from the message (which I received through marketing emails from The Washington Times, a conservative-leaning newspaper in D.C.):
Barbara Boxer ... disrespectfully demanded a Brigadier General refer to her as “Senator” instead of “ma’am” during a recent Senate hearing. I’m sure you’ll agree that Boxer’s arrogance and disrespect for our nation’s military leaders is way out of line.
The email even provides a link where it promises the viewer can “watch Boxer’s offensive demand on video.”
Offensive? Seriously? Those uppity female Senators, always wanting credit for being in Congress and stuff! Hey, I wonder how this Brigadier General feels when he gets called “dude”?
![12 Dumbest Sex Moves On ‘Mad Men’ [truTV]](http://cdn.thefrisky.com/images/uploads/9-1-wl-tru-tv-10-dumb-things-on-mad-men.jpg)
Tags: politics, , barbara boxer, carly fiorina, women in politics
Please wait while we process your request
Please wait while we retrieve the user's information
Bio
Your bio is currently empty. Now is a great time to fill in your profile.
This profile is private.
This profile is under review.
We were unable to follow this user.
We were unable to follow this user. Are you logged in?
You are now following this user.
We were unable to stop following this user.
We were unable to stop following this user. Are you logged in?
You are no longer following this user.
We were unable to ignore this user.
We were unable to ignore this user. Are you logged in?
This user is now ignored.
We were unable to stop ignoring this user.
We were unable to stop ignoring this user. Are you logged in?
This user is no longer ignored.
We encountered a problem recommending this user.
pluck_user_recommend_permission
You have recommended this user.
Please wait while we perform your request.
Comments
Sort:
Name withheld
Riley
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 5:47 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Riley. Show DetailsHide Details
Always a well-thought-out argument. Ma'am is clearly comparable to calling a General "dude". Referring to someone as "Ma'am" is the same as "Sir"; which, believe it or not, happens frequently in the military.
Name withheld
Angieliz
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 5:53 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Angieliz. Show DetailsHide Details
It is the Congresswoman's title, though, and she worked hard to earn it.
Name withheld
Goldfinch86
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 5:53 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Goldfinch86. Show DetailsHide Details
She deserves to be called Senator, whether man or woman they are senators first. Sir and Ma'am maybe be par for the military but she is not in the military and therefor should be called by Senator which is her proper title. I agree that woman on woman sexism is beyond low and even if the person talking to her was a military leader, hello reality check, she's a Senator and also deserves to be talked to with her status in mind.
Name withheld
Spitfire
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 5:54 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Spitfire. Show DetailsHide Details
Senator Boxer is a disgrace and needs to be removed from office. I've seen the video and she was very disrespectful to the General.His calling her ma'am was in no way disrespectful. As Riley pointed out, to refer to people as Ma'am and Sir is a sign of respect, and commonly used in the military.Sorry, Senator Boxer was out of line.
Name withheld
lostrun
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 5:56 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore lostrun. Show DetailsHide Details
Military officers are called Ma'am/Sir in place of their name or rank as a sign of respect. And just b/c it's suppose to show a sign of respect, the way it is said can be very disrespectful. I know I would say Yes Sir/Ma'am instead of Yes Rank/Name to show a bit of disrespect, but still be respectful. It's not always what you say, but how you say it.I would also say, she isn't military, and she asked him to call her Senator. Some say he's used to saying Ma'am. I say, maybe, but considering there aren't that many female generals out there, it probably has been awhile. And it truly isn't hard to remember Senator. I think he did it to show disrespect in a respectful manner.
Name withheld
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 6:02 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore CheeeeEEEEse. Show DetailsHide Details
The senate is redundant. All we need is the house anyway. Founding fathers did think we needed another branch......argggh.
Name withheld
spatula
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 6:12 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore spatula. Show DetailsHide Details
I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to request to be addressed by your title. A little nit-picky, a lot arrogant sounding, maybe, but a reasonable request.
Name withheld
lea322
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 6:21 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore lea322. Show DetailsHide Details
I can't stand Carly Fiorina. Just thinking about her makes me angry!
Name withheld
CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 6:22 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore CheeeeEEEEse. Show DetailsHide Details
@spatula: Then please call me by my nom de plume, Cheesius the 1st, Earl of Sandwich, Duke of Earl.
Name withheld
william.paul
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 6:29 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore william.paul. Show DetailsHide Details
I'd like to see the rest of the video and not just this segment of it. If he was obviously being disrespectful in his tone or she had asked him to call her senator before this clip, I totally get it. Regardless of how you feel about the video. The timing of it is pretty peculiar considering that this happened almost five months ago.
Name withheld
*sam*
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 6:29 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore *sam*. Show DetailsHide Details
I haven't watched the clip, so obviously I can't really assess anyone's tone, but, I'm on par with [b]spatula[/b] on this one. I wouldn't call it unreasonable, but def. nit-picky. However, I've been around the military my entire life AND I've grown up in the south, so, calling someone ma'am is hard for me to pin as disrespectful. and to be honest, if I were to address the senate tomorrow, I would address every single senator as either sir or ma'am -- it's just how I was raised. (Though, if any of them were to correct me, I would certainly hope they would do so in a respectful manner).
Name withheld
Memphis Blues
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 6:35 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Memphis Blues. Show DetailsHide Details
As a Senator, she outranks all military members. Per military protocol, the General should have addressed male Senators as Sir and female Senators as Maam.As an elected Senator she is entitled to respect. As a General, a rank only awarded with congressional approval, he is too. No matter what you think of her politics, she was disrespectful as she demonstrated either her ignorance for, or contempt of, military protocol.
Name withheld
Jenn27549
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 6:38 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Jenn27549. Show DetailsHide Details
Having personally worked in Congress--its arrogant. The only way to know if he meant it (either consciously or subconsciously) to downplay her "position" is to see if he called male Senators "Senator Whatshisname" or "Sir." If he was calling the males "Sir" then she had no reason to do that. No, she's not in the military but the person she's talking to is, and its not a disrespectful way to speak to someone, so she just needed to keep her mouth shut. As for the ad, though, it is kind of stupid. I don't think I'd be convinced to vote one way or another by just that one remark. There's plenty to attack her on without something silly like that.
Name withheld
Lachlan
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:23 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Lachlan. Show DetailsHide Details
Memphis Blues....exactly. He was following protocol and she was disrespectful. My best guess is that he worked a lot harder for his rank as a General than she has for her title as a Senator.
Name withheld
libbylovespink
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:25 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore libbylovespink. Show DetailsHide Details
She has the right to be called whatever she wants, and should she want to be addressed as "Senator" rather than "Ma'am", then she has earned that right. Because Senator is not a gender specific term, I can see why she'd prefer that to be used, especially if she felt (as she very well could have) that his use of "ma'am" was patronizing or somehow sexist (because let's face it, sometimes it can be construed and used that way). If she were a man, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. That's the big problem here, in my eyes.
Name withheld
LilMissSunshine
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:29 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore LilMissSunshine. Show DetailsHide Details
Having not seen video of the interaction. It doesn't seem like either of them were wrong. I think it is completely acceptable to call someone sir or ma'am. If she personally doesn't like being called ma'am asking someone to call her by her title is completely acceptable. I think it comes down to personal preference really. As a side note almost every video I've seen of Barbara Boxer speaking she comes across as being very curt to the point of leaning towards confrontational. I think her "don't f- with me" attitude is just her game face at the office. Maybe it also just her personality type. These are things one video clip doesn't let you know.
Name withheld
Bertram
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:30 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore Bertram. Show DetailsHide Details
She was out of line and it shows a part of her character. Having watched the extended clip he was not disrespecting her in anyway. She had no beat him over the head with 'I earned it' comment tacked on to her request. It looked petty and arrogant. I went to a military school and we addressed superiors by 'sir' or 'ma'am'. We also addressed the non-military staff that way and were instructed/required to address visitors to the campus by 'sir' or 'ma'am' as *GASP* a sign of respect. The ad is weak by campaign standards and I have no doubt that Boxer has her own cheap mud to throw.
Name withheld
MuchoMacho
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:33 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore MuchoMacho. Show DetailsHide Details
if he had called her "hey hoe" i could see having a problem, but "sir" and "maam" are socially accepted titles of respect. i dont know who she is, or who shes running against, but my response if i was the general would have been a blank stare and silence as i waited for her to answer my question. ur a senator for as long as you have public support. ur a general forever.
Name withheld
slip
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:37 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore slip. Show DetailsHide Details
1. Military personnel address superior officers as "Sir" or "Ma'am" unless they use the superior's last name as well, in which case "General Jones" is correct. 2. A superior may address a subordinate by rank alone but not vice versa. 3. Anyone addressing a General of any rank (Brigadier being the lowest rank of the five ranks of general officer) as "dude" will get his or her face peeled off on the spot. This will be done by the general's aide or a member of the entourage to spare the general the indignity of addressing someone so rude. 4. Senator Boxer is full of shit--as usual--with Carly Fiorina a close second. That is all. Slip
Name withheld
bumbler
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:39 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore bumbler. Show DetailsHide Details
I don't have military experience but I do know that at my university professors were always addressed as "professor" or "doctor" in conversation. To address them as "sir/ma'am/madam" would be considered slightly disrespectful, they liked to have their schooling and position acknowledged.
Name withheld
MuchoMacho
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:39 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore MuchoMacho. Show DetailsHide Details
generals are like chuck norris. if you call one 'dude' your face would just melt off spontaniously. darwin would laugh. so would i.
Name withheld
moonblossom
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:44 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore moonblossom. Show DetailsHide Details
She's the senator. She can tell him to call her whatever she wants to be called.That said, as a former military member I know from experience its really easy to get in the habit of Yes Sir/Yes Ma'am to everyone. I would be interested to know if the BG called the male senators "senator" and called her "Ma'am"A final note - as a former military member (I know, I mentioned that already) its always odd to me when civilians like Ms Fiorina wrap themselves up in the flag and, when it works for them, demand military members get treated like some kind of demi-gods because they were in the military. I knew plenty of a$$hats when I was on active duty. I also knew plenty of people who just sat at a desk for 20 years and collected their paycheck....like working for the IRS except you get shinier buttons on your coat. Not to bash anyone's service, but lets be real here...not every single veteran is out there on patrol with an M-16 and body army. I know I wasn't.
Name withheld
bumbler
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:44 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore bumbler. Show DetailsHide Details
Also does this remind anyone else of A Few Good Men? "And the witness will address this court as 'Judge' or 'Your Honor.' I'm quite sure [i]I've[/i] earned it."
Name withheld
william.paul
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:51 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore william.paul. Show DetailsHide Details
@Bertram I found the extended clip as well. She didn't have an issue the first two (that I noticed) times he addressed her as ma'am and he began his initial dialog with her by addressing the senator as Madam Chairwoman. She was the first person he addressed, but the male senator on the panel didn't seem to mind being called sir.If she wants to be addressed as senator, that is her right and prerogative. However, I'm pretty sure the general has earned the right to a "please" when she makes that request.
Name withheld
moonblossom
wrote on November 10, 2009 @ 8:51 PM
This comment is hidden because you have chosen to ignore moonblossom. Show DetailsHide Details
Also - as far as military protocol goes...a senator does not outrank a general. That's apples and oranges. An officer's promotion to general must be approved by congress, but that has nothing to do with their respective ranks. The Dept of Defense is an executive agency and as such falls under the executive (the prez). The congress is a co-equal branch of the government with the executive and the judicial branches. So, really, there is no rank comparison. Civilian senators have no rank.Also, it is perfectly appropriate to refer to a military person by their rank or Sir/Ma'am. That goes either way. The only really no-no is that lower ranking don't generally call higher ups by their first names, but higher ups can call lower ranks by their first names. Lower ranks can call higher ups by rank (Hey General or Hey General Jones) or sir/ma'am (Hey Sir). Though, generals usually are a little rare outside DC so when you run into one you typically call them general the first few times you speak to them. In the course of a long conversation (or senate hearing) it would be OK to call a general "sir", especially if you're a senator.
comments
Please wait while we send the email.
Email This
E-Mail
Delicious
Digg
Facebook
FriendFeed
LinkedIn
MySpace
Copy to Clipboard
Reddit
Slashdot
StumbleUpon
Tumblr
Twitter
Yahoo! Buzz
Score
vote upvotes up
vote downvotes down
TheFrisky.com is part of Turner Entertainment Digital which is part of the Turner Sports & Entertainment Digital Network.