Eight So-Called Chivalrous Moves That Creep Us Out

Kiki T
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:44 am: [report]

oh god #5, yes—when I see the guys holding his girlfriend’s purse I just think, “pussy-whipped,” nothing is more unsexy than a guy with holding his g-friend’s purse and shopping bags, trailing behind her. wtf is she thinking? if my man ever did that, i’d never f"ck him again—how could I? he’s as goods a eunuch when he hands over his balls like that!

abcd
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:46 am: [report]

I think you should still give respect to the father of the woman by asking for her hand in marriage.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:47 am: [report]

Bleh to you Miss Torgovnick. Some of those are nice except the bathroom nomenclature and intentionally losing at games and ordering food. I don’t know what I want half the time.

I get stuck with purses when I’m out with female friends, when they ‘tinkle’ because I can rock the D&G. All that other stuff is nice and shows some caring and thought went into making you comfortable.

So BLEH! to you again.

effing hickster
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:49 am: [report]

I wouldn’t be the guy who’s carrying a load around while she’s got nothing, but what am I supposed to do when she simply says, “Here, hold this for a moment.” Refuse? Seems kind of childish to do so.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:52 am: [report]

@Kiki: Eunuchs don’t have balls or a dick for that matter. It looks more like a va-jay-jay actually.

william.paul
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:54 am: [report]

#1 I’ve only done that once and I felt weird doing it. I was with my mom, siblings, and the girl I was dating at the time and I ended up ordering for the entire table (though to be fair, it was a pizza place so it wasn’t like everyone had their own individual item).

#4 I usually do this for the girl that I’m with, though I can understand that some girls might not like it.

For one that is not on the list (and I don’t do very often), standing up whenever a woman stands up or sits down at the table. I’m not entirely sure how it got started as a custom.

ladyparts
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:56 am: [report]

I don’t mind the coat, and my boyfriend and I usually share when we go out to eat so we can try more things, so we figure that out, then only one of us places the orders to cut down on confusion for the waitress. More often than not it’s him because he comes off nicer and we get better service. I tend to be very direct bordering on bossy when I am in the restaurant which is sort of funny since I was a server for 10 years. I think now I have very little patience and want things done as quickly and correctly as possible which usually comes of bitchy. So, um, yeah, I let him order for me.

The rest of that stuff though, don’t need it.

*sam*
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:58 am: [report]

1, 2, & 5 are the only ones I agree with as being odd or unappreciated. The others are fine by me. and just out of curiosity, how is it that you’re OK with a guy opening the door for you, but if he pulls out your chair for you to sit down, you get all weirded out?

esmee
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:59 am: [report]

The coat thing can be very smooth if its done correctly. Uncoordinated and poorly timed, plus a bulky sweater – messy and annoying.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:02 am: [report]

All you coat people! I’ve almost dislocated my shoulder trying to put on coats before! Help is appreciated.

powplz
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:08 am: [report]

yeah I like the helping on with the coat move. It’s just a small but very sweet gesture to me.

smoore
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:11 am: [report]

Half of these I disagree with and the other half are dead on. Please don’t order for me, let me win, carry my purse or not let me pay if I offer.

I have to disagree though - it’s a big deal for my man to ask for my parent’s blessing, family is really important to me and I could never marry someone my family doesn’t approve of. And pulling out my chair and helping with my coat are just as thoughtful and sweet as opening the car door for me - it’s not patronizing…it’s just a sweet gesture.

MissChaotic
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:13 am: [report]

I think its cute when guys pull out a chair. I also like coat help…I tend to struggle with my coats/jackets occasionally.

But one that can end is the do everything (like construction stuff). Yea, its nice for help on big ticket items, but I can install a door chain without you snatching the screwdriver out of my hand.

ulostme
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:16 am: [report]

I think pulling out my chair, asking for my dad’s hand, and helping me with my coat are all pretty chivalrous. They show that you are precious. I wouldn’t mind if someone did those things for me.

spatula
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:22 am: [report]

Sorry, but I agree with @Cheeeese! Ordering my food and putting on my coat might be awkward and annoying, but not creepy!

They are at least TRYING, you know, ladies? Ease up.

feinicstine
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:22 am: [report]

My dad actually taught me the correct way to have someone help me in to my coat. It’s awkward if you, as a woman, don’t help them out a little too. You can’t just shove your arms blindly at the arm holes… you’ll miss. Keep your arms down and slightly back and he can generally aim for you, bending your elbows before the coat is over them makes it a mess.

Also, when my boyfriend gets my chair or car door for me (which is about once a year ) he’ll ask “all set?” or something like that before closing the door/pushing the chair in. That way I don’t have to be afraid of falling or getting a skirt caught in the door. Those things can be sweet, the rest seem unnecessary.

java82
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:27 am: [report]

Being carried to the bed and gently being lowered onto it prior to “love-making”. (Mind you, don’t know if this actually happens outside of TV and movies.) I can walk to the bed myself, thanks, or we can make a mad dash for the bedroom together. Even if I fall asleep on the couch, just leave me there, unless I have back problems. Or if I’m drunk and passed out on someone else’s couch and you need to get me to the car, that’s the only time I can accept it. Otherwise: cheeeeeeesy.

anin
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:34 am: [report]

Oh god I disagree with #5! I always have a million bags and coats and welcome the help!

bumbler
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:38 am: [report]

Ugh come on, one thing about many bathrooms is they don’t have a place to hang your purse while you’re in there. There is no way my purse is sitting on the floor in a public bathroom either. My husband happily holds my purse if I’m in a situation like that. I like that he’s confident enough in his manhood not to get all worked up about doing me a small favor.

elizabethmarley
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:40 am: [report]

I thing 7 (not letting me pay) is great on a first or second date, but after that I will feel like I need to contribute. 8 (helping me with my coat) is great if the guy is actually CAPABLE of helping me with my coat. You’d be surprised at how many guys can’t handle it.

I’d like to add #9: Insisting on being on the outside when walking on the sidewalk. I hear it’s the polite thing to do, and I appreciate the subtlety of the gesture…and if the guy can execute it quietly it can be really nice. BUT, I dated a guy once who made a big effort to be on the outside and I always felt like he was running around in circles. It was terrible.

Pookie
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:40 am: [report]

Ladies, please! Ease up on the men! While I agree on the bathroom one, if the woman is ok with her man doing all these things for why hate? To each his own. I love it when my man takes out my chair, and helps me with my coat. I also think that ‘asking permission’ to marry some one’s daughter is purely out of respect. Last time I checked respect still wasn’t out-dated or chauvanist. It seems like there are A LOT of jaded women out there.

B1ll
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:47 am: [report]

@feinicstine So True! There’s a right way to be helped on with your coat and a right way to help someone. Keep the coat low and your partner will usually keep arms down. Then raise the coat over the arms.

@Kate
1 - Only if you ask
2, 3 - No arguement
4 - You shouldn’t start to sit until you feel the chair being pushed in. It really isn’t hard.
5 - The bag is yours unless you ask for temporary help. But what’s wrong with sharing the load is one’s hands
are empty?
6 - Once you’ve said yes, I’m not really asking for permission. Smoore is right about respect for family. And, naturally, your mother should be there too.
7 - Or you pay the next time.
8 - See above

retro chic
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:55 am: [report]

ATTN: Frisky IT people…
There’s a formatting problem on my
screen that lops 1” off the right
of the Comments on the Article
pages and the Chatter page.
Started last night!
I sent messages. Help!

[smoothing myself down]

The “tinkle” thing: Only heard that twice.
Both men had mommy issues, making them
retarded, not retro.

Casper
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 10:09 am: [report]

Ordering for me is a no go unless you know it’s what i want, suggesting dishes to me is fair enough and repeating the order to the waiter once he knows what i want is fine. If he’s invited me out for a meal and wants to pay then fine, it would be odd if i invited him out and he payed, but I’d much rather take turns in paying or always split when we both decide to eat out. I think the whole coat and chair thing is sweet, as is opening doors for you and standing when you stand but i don’t expect it from guys. I think most girls have problems with it because they feel it takes away their independence, i see no problem with it all unless they’re forcing it upon you.
As for the whole permission from the father, i would rather he asked my family first to make sure it’s what i was ready for, and to show that he knows my family are involved in my life altering decisions and are always consulted. I also feel like they should be part of the asking process when it happens, he can’t ask my father but I’d expect him to ask my mother and brothers.

ancharb
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 10:11 am: [report]

half the time they ask you out via text now so if they go above and beyond ...ill take it!

Perceptible
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 11:04 am: [report]

Never order for me, whether you are my boyfriend, husband, lover, accountant, mother or best friend. Even if I have ordered the same thing the last 50 times we were there, I am a grown woman and reserve the right to change my mind, even at the last minute.

Never let me win. It’s 10 times more humiliating than losing. Eventually I’ll beat you all on my own.

I have never met a grown man who uses words like tinkle (unless he is toilet training his 2-year old), and I hope I never do.

Pulling out the chair and helping me with my coat are cute, even if botched. It’s not necessary every time, but if we’re going somewhere special, the extra effort could go a long way.

What’s the big deal about holding a woman’s purse for a moment? It’s not okay to carry it down the street, but holding it for a second is no big deal and not emasculating, it’s helpful.

Asking my parent for my hand in marriage is kinda old fashioned and the origins are pretty creepy (women as property and such) so I’m out on that one. Besides, if we’re close enough to be asking about marriage, we already know each others families well enough to know if we’d be accepted or not. (I do want the guy to propose, however. Not sure I can even completely define why, though.)

If I ask to leave the tip, yes, please let me. There’s plenty of time to fight about money later, thanks.

freepeople1986
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 11:22 am: [report]

I’m quite liberal, believe in the whole “fair and square” and “split down the middle” thing, but if we ever got around to engagements he better ask my dad. The way I see it, it’s more about my dad trusting this man to do a capable job of handling me. Considering how close my dad and I are, I’d want my dad to transfer much of his responsibilities to someone he saw fit.*

*this includes going to Home Depot, answering any and all questions about automobiles, hanging shelves, etc. Nothing too crazy, but if my boyfriend thinks I erected that masterpiece of a bookshelf by myself then he’s nuts.

Sometimes my boyfriend looks offended when I tell him to cut the romantic crap, so I let him open the cab door on certain occasions, I think it makes him feel manly. It’s all about balance.

BlueVibe
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 11:24 am: [report]

I don’t mind the chair or coat thing too much, but I can live without the rest of them. My BF and I have a bit of a tussle going on over who pays for dates: He likes to pay, but I like to trade off because I’m not dating him for free meals (and I’m an adult with a job, not an underemployed 19-year-old waiting to be handed from father to husband, as I might have been 60 years ago). Other than that, I can open my own car doors and choose my own food.

I did once tell him, “I’ll be back in a minute, if the waitress comes back, could you order me the dolmas?” to save her the bother of making another trip back to our table. The waitress apparently thought that was weird and my BF had to explain that he wasn’t choosing my dinner for me.

retro chic
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 12:04 pm: [report]

Part 2:
Most of those are hokey for me,
and frankly, who has time for all
the polite negotiations?

Also, I don’t think there has to
be a firm policy. I need it to be
fluid and reciprocal as needed just
out of sheer courtesy or efficiency.

Ordering dinner, hehe. Whoever isn’t
in the bathroom, etc, can catch the
servers attention – gets to order for
both. If both are present, just depends
on what’s efficient. Period.

effing hickster
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 12:29 pm: [report]

@java82: One of my favorite “love-making” sessions didn’t start with me carrying her to the bed, but her dragging me there by my “you-know-what”. How exciting and non-chivalrous!

emflow
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 12:51 pm: [report]

Most of those seem awkward to me - but only a problem if I tell the guy to cut it out and he doesn’t.

I think #6 really depends on how you relate to your family and how you feel about tradition. I’m with the author - a potential fiance needs to ask me and only me - but I can see why some women would want their fiance to ask their parents’ permission. The thing is, by the time he’s thinking about proposing he should already know how you feel about this (and similar issues), so it’s not one to mess up on.

Mariabeth67
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 01:12 pm: [report]

I disagree with numbers 4, 6, and 8. I just think those are things that should always happen.

Chebs
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 02:09 pm: [report]

I like being helped with my coat. I have long scarecrow arms, and many times spun in circles trying to put it on myself.

Ordering for me is ok if I’ve said in advance what I want and I’m in the bathroom. Otherwise I can do it myself. And if I don’t know how to pronounce something, I can guess or just point to item on the menu/show the waiter. They are probably used to people mangling the pronunciation.

My ex used to let me win all the time. One time when we were at an arcade I jokingly commented that he beat me so fast I didn’t have time to figure out the punch button (it was a fighting game, obviously). After that, I won at everything, and it pissed me off. I even told him that it bothered me, and he kept right on doing it.

As for holding my purse, I’ve only been in one situation where I asked my ex, and you would have thought I asked him to cuddle a viper. He made a huge show of taking it and holding it as far away from him as possible. All the while I was thinking “you know, no one would have noticed if you hadn’t made a production out of it”.

But for the most part, these depend on the woman. Someone will get offended if the guy does any, none, or all. Personal preference and all that jazz.

bearclover
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 02:43 pm: [report]

I *love* chivalry! I was such a tomboy growing up (and still am) that it’s very nice for a man to notice I’m a girl and treat special because of it. I dont see any disrespect in it at all. Its one thing to do nice pleasant things for me because I’m a girl and another to assume I CAN’T do something because I’m a girl. Just because I can hit that 4 inch target with my 270 at 100 yards and use a power tool just as well as he can doesn’t mean I don’t want to be treated like I’m delicate once in a while.

Knitter79
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 03:24 pm: [report]

I generally think the ordering for me thing is weird, except for special circumstances. Pizza places or anywhere we are sharing food is fine (though it’s not always him doing the ordering). Or if we’re at a sushi place. He seems to pick things I would never think to that are really good.

For #6, I used to think this was a big deal, but now I’d almost rather he not do it. My parents are divorced and I don’t want to get attitude from my mom if she finds out he talked to my dad but not her. She’d give me a guilt trip about that for the rest of my life!

majicksand
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 03:31 pm: [report]

Bearclover, are you my long-lost twin? I’m capable and aggressive, but all girl underneath.

The only thing on the list that I absolutely object to is letting me win. Thankfully, my husband knows better. He kicked my a$$ 9 games in a row on the pool table Saturday night. I felt pretty good about the games when I got more than two shots and had 3 balls or less by the time it was over. In good news, when I had to play someone my own skill level on Sunday at league, it was almost easy to win my match.

acannon
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 04:55 pm: [report]

another creepy ‘chivalrous’ practice that every single man in my office building does is waiting for me/women to enter/exit the elevator first before they do. Ok, if I’m closest to the door, I’m happy to walk out first. But routinely I’m at the back of a full elevator and men shift and shuffle awkwardly in the tiny space to let me walk out ahead of them. Just get out of the damned tiny space, vaginas needn’t always be first!

R
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 04:59 pm: [report]

My boyfriend always orders for me at restaurants, I tell him what I want and he tells the waiter. I think its sweet. Also my boyfriend holds my purse when we go out but only when he notices that my purse is leaving a big red mark on my shoulder because its so heavy.

R
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 05:04 pm: [report]

The one thing that annoys me though is when my boyfriend makes such an effort to open the door for me. He once pushed me out of the way so he could get ahead of me and open the door -.-

_jsw_
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 06:37 pm: [report]

I don’t see anything inherently creepy or wonderful about any of these things, and it all depends on how they are received… although obviously some are more likely to be offered willingly and received well than others.

As far as holding purses goes: I don’t see the problem. I find it laughable when men hold purses as though their friends/dates/wives whatever just handed them a paper bag filled with dog excrement. It’s a purse. It holds things. It doesn’t snip testicles or leach testosterone. It doesn’t change your sexual orientation. All holding a purse really does to a man is make it obvious whether or not he’s comfortable in his own skin.

CheezeDoodles
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:11 pm: [report]

1. I’ll frequently recruit The Boyfriend to order for me when nothing on the menu is really grabbing me. He knows I’ll eat anything that won’t bite me first, and he’s never chosen anything bad. As long as he steers clear of lima beans (hate hate hate them) and watermelon (allergic!), then I’m game for whatever.

2. The twisted reality would be MY letting HIM win. I destroy him at board games. And he’s uber-competitive with me, so I have no fear he’d ever “let” me win. The a$$ kickings are legit.

3. I almost wish mine would use a code. He likes to give Howard Cosell-like reports about his jaunts to the bathroom. <shudder>

4. The few times he did pull out my chair, he’d forget to slide it forward. Thanks to miscommunications, I about landed on the floor. This item is a non-issue, but any man I ever dated, I told them I was a klutz and am best left to seat myself. Less liability.

5. I agree with this one. I never force or ask The Boyfriend to hold my purse, ever. I think it’s emasculating as hell.

6. Well, he and I aren’t marrying, thanks to horrific former spouses, so a proposal and permission are a non-issue.

7, Whoever invites should be the one who pays. Period. Men shouldn’t always foot the bill, nor should the ladies. Take turns and play nice.

8. Totally negotiable, don’t have a preference either way…The Boyfriend usually helps me when he notices I’m fighting the sleeves and not winning. I do enjoy when he helps me with my coat when we’re dressed to the nines and going somewhere special—kinda adds an old-Hollywood glamour to things.

nonenone
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:38 pm: [report]

i actually would require my bf to ask my father first… just out of respect

MondimNebel
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 08:56 pm: [report]

I love when my boyfriend does those things… and using a “code word” for the bathroom is usually me- I work with kids so I talk like that all day anyway. And as far as the purse goes- half the time his stuff is in it, so he can carry it sometimes too. haha

I especially love when he orders for me.

Red_Lady
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 09:07 pm: [report]

One weird thing that happened to me before was at the Olive Garden, my date grabbed my plate and served up the salad for me. I’m sure he thought he was being gentlemanly, but all I could think was “I wanted more tomato slices”

frostie
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 10:15 pm: [report]

I dated a guy a couple of years ago who would insist on ordering for me, saying that I had to try new things (he was a bit older then me and saw himself as some sort of weird mentor type figure), and since he always paid (he had a full time job, I was still in high school) I’d let him, except he’d always order things I couldn’t stand (like spicy food) even though I’d tell him that I was going to hate it and then he’d get angry at me when I couldn’t eat it, saying he’d bought me this nice food and I was just being closed minded and childish. Psycho.
My boyfriend is a little traditional, when we first started dating a little over a year ago he would pull out chairs for me but it was really funny because I wouldn’t realize and would sit in the chair opposite, leaving him just holding out this chair. It became a bit of a dumb running joke between us.

wonder_bread
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 10:36 pm: [report]

i disagree with all but the first one…

4.everynow and then i don’t mind this one if we go out somewhere fancy sure but not for everyday eating.

5. if my hands are full with all my other stuff its a great help if u grabbed something anything even if it means my purse for the second..that doesnt make u creepy or whipped just nice and considerate.

6.i have a good relationship with my dad and i wouldnt mind my bf askin him for my hand i think its sweet.

7.if we are in a serious relationship im not gonna fight with you pay for everything if thats wat you really want. on a date ill offer if u presist im still not fighting with you

8. i don’t mind havin my coat slipped on for me.its not that big of a deal or creepy its just a coat

neongh0st
wrote on September 15 2009 @ 11:41 pm: [report]

Pulling out seems to be a hot topic these days; I guess you could say there’s some chivalry to it.

Oh, and I guess that helping with her chair is pretty chivalrous too.

brandyalexander
wrote on September 16 2009 @ 11:14 am: [report]

@java, it happens, and its overrated.
@hickster…. its nature’s perfect handle.

Nikki Dowling
wrote on September 16 2009 @ 09:33 pm: [report]

What about when they run around the front of the car, before you can reach for the handle, and open the door for you? For me, that’s awkward. I’m terrible at getting out of cars because I’m so short. I always flash my underwear or hit my head or stumble…

effing hickster
wrote on September 17 2009 @ 02:34 am: [report]

“Sir, I’d like to ask for your daughter’s hand in marriage.”

“I don’t think so son…you’re carrying a purse, for Chrissakes.”

Gingee
wrote on September 17 2009 @ 09:10 am: [report]

Asking Poppa for his permission to marry: O vey.

The one that is not mentioned:

The Elevator Waltz: And the men who won’t get out of your way, they get in your way, in that clumsy dance of “Ladies first”.

As for carrying a purse: Non issue. I do not carry a purse,and any guy who would do that is CAT-PECKED. He may as well hand over his testicles.

jennaylove
wrote on September 17 2009 @ 11:21 am: [report]

I don’t care what the new age says… I will be upset if my boyfriend doesnt ask my dad for my hand in marriage. My family is a huge part of my life, and just as it is traditionally, I am my fathers daughter, I “belong” to him and he will be the one who “gives” me away on my wedding day. I know that my dad adores my boyfriend and will say yes. My boyfriend knows this too, he also knows that he needs to be respectful because I’m daddy’s little girl, and he will be super happy wiht a mix of sad when I get married.
traditionally and respectfully. he better ask permission.

Queen Frostine
wrote on September 17 2009 @ 11:30 am: [report]

I don’t mind a guy pulling out my chair or helping me with my coat. Likewise, I don’t mind handing him his keys and coffee when he leaves in the morning, or holding out a towel for him in the shower. Sweet thoughtful gestures can be very nice.

99girl
wrote on September 17 2009 @ 11:33 am: [report]

I guess for me there’s a fine line. I don’t need help doing things I can do just fine myself. I am very independent and don’t like people doing things for me. But I do appreciate the gesture and the thought behind it. But I think that men can show they care in other ways.
As for marriage, I guess I see that as sexist. I don’t need permission, nor should my potential husband, to get married. It’s my life. I don’t have a dowry and don’t ‘belong’ to my dad.

vegan_eskimo
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 02:26 am: [report]

Seriously Kate?

Half of these would be weird if the guy did them wrong. Order for you doesn’t mean that he picks out your food, it’s just so your man can show off that he talked to you like “Hhhmmmm? What are you getting? I think I’ll get this”

Also, whenever I ask my husband to hold my purse he holds it exactly like it’s a football.

As for asking for your hand in marriage; it’s not really about ASKING FOR IT it’s about asking for your father’s ‘blessing’ or well wishes….I mean you guys would get married anyway it’s just a weird way of breaking into ‘in-law-dom’.

What the heck is your idea of chivalry anyway?

Dreaming
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 08:09 am: [report]

Maybe I’m telling my age, but frankly, none of these things creep me out (though the bathroom words might be odd - however, I have never encountered that). A man pulling my chair out for me, consulting me on what I would like to eat then ordering for me, paying for the date, and showing respect for me and my father by consulting him about marrying me are all signs of respect. Offering to hold my purse or helping put on my coat show concern. I think it’s very sad to find respectful behavior “creepy” and really worry about what that means for the world in general. I don’t consider these hallmarks of creepy behavior.

Mel Darling
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 08:20 am: [report]

.... this article is a joke, right? If I’m reading this correctly, you’d rather have a jack ass that treats you like dirt?

Maybe I’m crazy, but a little chivalry and gentlemanly behavior is always welcome. Especially in this society where common courtesy and decency seem to have disappeared.

I think I may have discovered why you’re single, Kate. If you’re ditching guys based on the above, you’re passing up the good ones and wasting your times on jerks.

Gingee
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 08:49 am: [report]

Must disagree about the consulting the father before asking you to form that three-way contract with the state:

The guy who does this and the father who goes along with it are just as creepy as those who stage those Purity Dabces:

You, the female, are being treated as if you are property, and all that is left is to negotiate the price.

Offering to hold your purse: He’s whipped. Not concerned, whipped.

CheeeeEEEEse
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 08:54 am: [report]

My cousin just got proposed to over the weekend, at a Virginia Tech game no less. Her parents got asked.

Tart and Soul
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 09:01 am: [report]

I’ve had several men INSIST on walking on the outer edge of the sidewalk as if they’d actually be able to block me should an oncoming Mac truck veer off the road and barrel into us.

Little Lamb
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 09:06 am: [report]

@Gingee-

Really??? Doesn’t that seem like a bit of a stretch…

Asking the father’s permission for marriage is tradition (like stockings at Christmastime—-most Christians and atheists alike do this). And marriages involve family. Besides the fact that it is done out of politeness, and I imagine that if a father said no, it would not stop most men from proposing.

However, it is odd to mix fathers, daughters, and sexual promises.

jennaylove
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 09:10 am: [report]

all the women who say that they don’t want their boyfriend to ask their fathers permission when they get married are obviously not close to their fathers. my parents and I are very close, and my father is a huge part of my life, always have been. Not only because it is tradition but because it is respectful, both my father & I would expect my boyfriend to ask for permission to marry me.
for the girl talking about us women being property… I’m sorry but it seems apparrent that you have your own issues with your father… or with someone treating you like they own you.
my father is going to walk me down the isle someday, and give me away, but only after he has been asked to do so.

I also think that pulling out a chair is what a gentleman should do, as well as paying for a date… not always but if he asked, he should pay.
I like to be treated well, yes I am an idependent woman, but I’m also a traditionalist, who doesn’t mind a little chivalry.

wonder_bread
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 09:12 am: [report]

but is it not the thought that counts especially if they were raised to be that considerate. there are way to many jerks out there for me to shun the one’s that do try to raise above the typical effort most men put into wooing a woman.. no one is saying your not capable of puttin on ur own coat or pulling out ur own chair but the gesture is nice and thoughtful especially when its sincere.i dont mind it….pull my chair out, help me with my cost..ask me what i want to eat and order it…ask my dad for my hand.. its not about me being property its out of respect since my dad would be the one giving me away… im no ones property and i dont feel the need to make an issue out of every tradition

Gingee
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 09:59 am: [report]

Thanks for the laughter and the arm-chair psychology so early on a Friday morn. It is so refreshing to begin the day with a who-hoo-hoo and a wah-hah-hah.

My condolences to those of you who do not have a Feminist Poppa. They teach ya how to survive and how to thive.

Carry on, do.

Cheers.

Gingee
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 10:04 am: [report]

LittleLamb:

We are familiar with some of the traditions of that religion of the near Orient, that Christian stuff.

As for asking our father’s permission to form a Three-way contract with the state: Amazing. Marriage is a contract, and it is about acquiring property and good in-laws.

Now if the guy wants to discuss a merging of the bank accounts and other matters related to money, then he and Poppa will have several chats. Then we move on to the Pre-Nups.

Little Lamb
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 10:35 am: [report]

@ Gingee-

I guess we just marriage through two totally different sets of eyes. To me, marriage is about forming a permanent family. It is about agreeing to take care of each other and supporting each other no matter what. The financial stuff is how the law sees it, but that is just the small stuff to me.

When my fiance asked my dad if he could ask me to marry him, to me, it was less about him asking if my father would hand me over to him, and more about him asking for permission to join our family.

If my dad would have said no (which I knew would never have happened), I would have taken that to mean that he and my mom did not want my boyfriend to be a part of the family, and I would have needed to chose which family I wanted to be a part of…a new one with my fiance, or one with my parents.

majicksand
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 11:02 am: [report]

@gingee: Thank you so much. You’re bitterness is so refreshing. There just isn’t enough of that in the world these days. I do so enjoy and look forward to your insights on the world. Truly, it’s shocking that you’re still single. It really says something about today’s men doesn’t it?

Gingee
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 11:04 am: [report]

Nah. For me, marriage IS about forming a union, ya just want to be sure that the other person never carries more than he can eat.

Arranged marriages were, until the past 100 years, common: Families negotiated the terms. Husbands could and did divorce the wives and marry them off to other men.

It was all about acquiring power and influence. That did not mean that the marriages were loveless, but it was irrelevant.

For reasons I will never understand, some women seem afraid to acknowledge that when they marry, it is about money.

The financial stuff is at the core of these contracts.

Failure to recognize this is what keeps attorneys in business.

amylou
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 12:00 pm: [report]

i’m clearly self-sufficient, but i still enjoy #s 4,6 & 8… there’s nothing wrong with a little chivalry, there doesn’t seem to be much left in the world!

Oldcode
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 01:05 pm: [report]

Not speaking on the specifics of the above mentioned list but more in general, here’s one man’s point of view: Chivalry, for those gentlemen who still subscribe to it, is a dying breed. We who open doors and offer to pay first often do so because we truly believe it’s the right thing to do. We were taught that this is the proper behavior out of respect and to show how much you care, not to make anyone feel awkward. To me, this isn’t being gender specific either - often times you’ll find the same gentleman do the same with parents, or older people, or *anyone else* for that matter. Indeed, I open the car door for my girlfriend every time. She opens mine from the inside. Teamwork! If we’re out to dinner (whether it’s my girlfriend or otherwise), my wallet is open first. Why? That’s the right thing to do. What’s more disheartening is that opening doors is now so uncommon that when it happens, it’s an awkward moment. I sincerely want to be in a world where women don’t call guys pigs or jerks, but the sad truth is many of them are. I’m not ignorant of that fact, but I also won’t subscribe to the behavior that creates it. Call me old fashioned or outdated, but I’d rather err on the side of being too helpful than perpetuate the bad. Believe me - from the other side of the coin, you have no idea how frustrating it is seeing morons treat their girlfriend (or anyone for that matter) with anything less than the respect they deserve by being on this planet. Now someone throw me a purse or murse or whatever can lighten the load and let’s help each other!

gt_bike
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 01:21 pm: [report]

http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4644804#new

Ginger
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 03:04 pm: [report]

I’ve only seen the purse thing be cool once. And that was on a TV show where the couple was on therun from government agents. The wife had lots of training in this sort of thing, the husband didn’t, so he carried the bags so that she could ‘leave the trigger finger ready’.

But other than that it’s a little unnecessary.

powplz
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 03:34 pm: [report]

@jennaylove - um, you talk about women who aren’t close with their fathers/have a different father-daughter relationship than you and your dad do as if it’s an insult. People who are estranged from/not close to family members often have *very* good reasons.

A couple should know each other well enough to understand whether asking parents is appropriate or not. To act as if it’s pathetic that it’s appropriate in some relationships to omit parental pre-approval is narrow-sighted and ignorant.

LadyNisa
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 04:04 pm: [report]

OK so, # 1, 2, 3, and 5, yeah, those are outdated and slightly annoying, imo. But the others I still find to be gentlemanly.

Ronald Mexico
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 10:11 pm: [report]

You women don’t know what the hell you want. Seriously.

WTF?
wrote on September 18 2009 @ 11:36 pm: [report]

You people are all seriously wasting time to post about this stupid #&@$%? SERIOUSLY??? What the . . . . be yourself, period. If she gets creeped out because you offer to hold her chair, #&@$% HER! Let her go find some douche that will treat her like #&@$%. If you get mad because she is not willing to let you hold her purse, #&@$% YOU! Go back to mama’s house and suck on that tit some more. JAYZUS CHRIST I CAN’T BELIEVE AA DEBATE LIKE THIS EVEN EXISTS! I FEEL 10X DUMBER FOR EVEN BEING HERE.

alphamale11
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 12:01 am: [report]

So yeah wtf is a bit over board. I was born 60plus years ago in Texas and spent my formative years there. Women were to be treated as ladies, all of them. Clinton knows that, that is why it is none of your damn business. Holding a womans chair or the door is a no brainer. Helping her on with her coat. Don’t be a clutz, pay attention to what she needs be done. A tight bolero needs more elevation than a full length mink. Could be because with a bolero she is wearing a blouse that buttons up high as apposed to an evening dress and a low cut gown.
Don’t think that I am a male chauvenistic pig, I am, but that being said, I respect their ability to function as an independent and knowledgeable individual.
Asking daddy, that is pure respect. If you don’t want a man to respect your family make sure he doesn’t have to ever deal with them. These days it also includes sitting down with existing children and getting their approval.
I pay because if I invite you or anyone to dinner I expect to pay. If I want it to be dutch or other I will say so up front.
I saw the word, Chivalry, great word. I have a ‘work wife’ in a very physical job. She can and will do what I do and sometimes better. But I will always treat her as a lady when we are off the work floor. But never ever on the floor. She would knock the crap out of me, AND, her husband would think I was hitting on her. I totally respect the both of them.
If the odd gods of the universe made anything better than women they kept it for themselves. I say this with the full knowledge that these Odd Gods are every bit ladies themselves.

darkmidknights
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 04:18 am: [report]

Rule #1 for for any man. Don’t do anything that you perceive as nice, helpful, or especially “chivalrous” for any woman that is not a blood relative (grandmother,mother,sister,daughter). You will be labled as wierd, controlling, creepy, and will be laughed at, ridiculed, and mocked by her and all of her friends, relatives, co-workers and anyone she may come in contact with for years to come.
Rule #2. Just because she expects it doesn’t mean she wants it.

majicksand
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 08:34 am: [report]

@alphamale: That was lovely. I’m sure your ‘work wife’ appreciates your ability to distinguish between work time and off time.

@darkmidknights: If the attitude in your post bothers you, you’re dating the wrong women. There are plenty of women who still enjoy being treated like a lady. I promise.

warriorgirl13
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 09:34 am: [report]

Alright, seriously? If a guy does something that personally creeps you out tell him don’t tell the world that its creepy. A guy doting on his girlfriend can be very sweet. You just have to communicate what you like and what you don’t like, My boyfriend is incredibly touchy, he feels like he needs to be stroking my arms or anything like that if we are in the same room. yes it gets annoying and ya I tell him but I love wearing his sweatshirts and I love being carried around (piggyback rides and lofted up, I am really small so I am used to my guy friends randomly doing this) I thought this website would actually be helpful (I started reading the condom article for advice on birthcontrol) but all it seems to be is middle age women ranting because they believe that they alone know what makes a great relationship and not giving specific advice on what to do in that type of situation. Also, my boyfriend holds my purse occasionally if I have my hands full trying to rearange stuff in my truck or running to the bathroom at the mall. yes it bothers him but its also only for a minute and he understands that my hands are busy. My boyfriend switches sides if we go to a restaraunt together just so he can sit by me. Is that creepy? No. I live two and a half hours from him, he wants to spend time with me and be close with me when we are able to see each other. But seriously. Just communicate with the guy if he is creeping you out. I get the not walking you to the bathroom butyou don’t want him to forget to romance you too.

Gingee
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 10:53 am: [report]

About the contraception: There are several methods, that I will list, bu this is something for which one ought to hire a Technical Consultant aka physician.

Vasectomy - probably the most effective, and the surgery is minimally invasive.

For him: A hormone injection into the thigh monthly.

He can also get the plastic tubing that blocks sperm.

For the ladies:

Tubal ligation. It is about 98% effective, but they can come undone.

After that, there are the hormonal contraceptives, that is, birth control pills and implants. There are IUDs, but unless you’ve given birth, they’re difficult to place and they are not that effective. Diaphrams are probably around.

For both guy and gal, before anyone’s pants come off:
Pre-screening for any STDS is a must, and the guy always wears a condom.

majicksand
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 11:06 am: [report]

@gingee: Huh?

annalisa
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 02:51 pm: [report]

The changing of gender roles in our society has left a lot of young men confused and angry, not knowing what is expected of them. Since even the women don’t agree with each other (as evidenced by the comments here), I think it’s of the utmost importance that women make their preferences clear to men. I don’t think it’s good to be overly-sensitive to gestures that the man simply meant to be respectful. This creates resentful guys who end up thinking, “Fine, I’ll just be a jerk then!” On the other hand, if a gesture feels very uncomfortable or oppressive to you, try to find a gentle way to let him know it bothers you.

As a woman, I don’t understand women who are offended by men holding doors for them. I always hold the door for other people, esp. if their arms are full, or if they are right behind me. I also reserve the right to give up my bus seat for all elderly people, pregnant women, people carrying heavy packages, folks with small children, and anyone wearing high heels.

annalisa
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 02:56 pm: [report]

Regarding my last comment, I’ve even had to be careful about offering my seat to elderly people. Some of them are pretty healthy and resent being considered old enough to have seats offered to them. I guess we all have to try to be more sensitive to others.

powplz
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 03:35 pm: [report]

@gingee - IUDs less effective in women who haven’t given birth? Not according to my nurse practitioner. You got a reliable source on that? Mine’s working just fine and even though it hurt like a motherufcker, there were no complications - and my other childless (by choice) friend who has one had a similarly positive (after the initial insertion pain goes away) experience.

Oh, and that friend is an RN who chose it because of the high efficacy rate, so if it weren’t as effective in childless women, I don’t think she would have gotten one herself, let alone supported my decision to get one if that were true.

Miss Sarcastic
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 04:41 pm: [report]

1. I’ve never had any guy order a meal for me… so I can’t really speak on this one. If they knew what I wanted (like I was talking about it before the waiter/waitress came) then okay, but disregarding my opinion and choosing for me without telling me would definitely piss me off.

2. My boyfriend and I are both highly competitive. If one wins over the other, it was a legitimate win. He kicks my ass in pool, darts and ms. pacman, I pummel him in air hockey, basketball and usually monopoly. No one let’s the other win.

3. I’ve never heard a guy say “tinkle,” and if I heard my boyfriend say it, I would laugh WITH him because I know he was doing it to be goofy. Usually I just hear, “I’ll be right back, I’m going to the restroom.” But if a guy does say “I’m going to take a piss” or something… that irritates me just because it’s uncouth.

4. I’ve had one guy pull out my chair, and it was sweet. My boyfriend has never done that… but that’s because whenever we go to a restaurant, he knows that I HATE tables, and he (or I) requests a booth.

5. I consider my boyfriend to be a rather “status quo” manly man. He’s obsessed with muscle cars, sports and video games. However, he’s never once had a problem if I asked him to hold my purse, or a bag, for a moment. He just takes it and waits for me to take it back whenever I come back from the bathroom, finish buying something, or am done situating with whatever I’m doing. My ex fiance would throw a fit about it and I found it ridiculous.

6. I’m a little on the fence with the marriage thing. My ex fiance asked my dad before he proposed to me, but we knew we wanted to get married (however, I thank GOD that I opened my eyes and did not marry him in the end). So, he asked my dad, but I knew he was going to do so, but still ultimately didn’t know when he was going to propose. My boyfriend now, which will probably end up in marriage, gets along fantastically with my family and especially my dad, so I could see him talking to my dad about it and honestly I don’t care if he talked with him about it before me, as long as he didn’t tell him WHEN he was going to propose to me.

7. Okay, I’ve gone on dates where the guy adamantly refuses to let me pay, and it pisses me off. If I ask to chip in, or even pay fully (especially if I suggested we go out or that I was hungry), then let me do so. Throwing a fit and trying to be macho-traditionally-manly just irritates me. However, if a guy asks to take me out and it’s his idea, then I don’t mind him paying… if it becomes routine, then I would like to switch off. Like now, my bf and I tend to go out to eat every Friday and we’ll switch off on who pays the bill and tip. It works out great.

8. This one makes me laugh. Who in the world has a problem with a guy helping them put a potentially-awkward clothing item on? If he wants to help, awesome! If he doesn’t, that’s cool, too. I just don’t understand the big “no-no!” over it…

missyrunyon
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 08:22 pm: [report]

1. My husband always does this if I have told him what I want. If I haven’t, he doesn’t.
2. He never LETS me win, that’s patronizing by assuming I’m not as good as him.
3. Only if he’s joking. He rarely jokes about his bodily functions.
4. Always.
5. He always offers, sometimes I take him up on it, sometimes I don’t.
6. He proposed on a Saturday and we got married the following Saturday, so no time to ask Daddy. Daddy would have said no anyway, so it was moot.
7. When we were dating he always assumed he would pay, and when I offered he graciously accepted.
8. Always.

I’ve been married 22 years to the ultimate great guy/manly man. Damn I’m lucky!

Gingee
wrote on September 19 2009 @ 08:35 pm: [report]

What I wrote: That IUD insertion is more difficult in those who have not given birth.

powplz
wrote on September 20 2009 @ 09:19 am: [report]

@Gingee - What you wrote: “There are IUDs, but unless you’ve given birth, they’re difficult to place and they are not that effective.” This statement is simply not true.

BeholdAUnicorn
wrote on September 20 2009 @ 10:38 pm: [report]

Ordering a meal for someone else is just weird, unless they are 5 or under and can’t be trusted to pick anything besides pie and soda.

BKsweetheart
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 06:05 am: [report]

I dated a guy once who insisted that when he came to pick me up on getting out of the car and walking around to the passenger side to open the door for me. Then whenever we would get to where ever we were going, he wanted me to stay in the car and wait for him to walk around to the other side to open the door for me. It was just weird. I understand chivalry but I’m also not a 5 year old.

righteousjohnson
wrote on September 21 2009 @ 06:40 pm: [report]

I am a man. I appreciate this good advice. Since I quit being chivalrous, I have gotten so much more tail. I never realized how much women seem to appreciate being treated like crap! They love it. I pull out the chair less and put something else in more. Thanks Kate for putting so many more females in bed!

olorin
wrote on September 24 2009 @ 04:56 pm: [report]

men need to figure out why they do any of these particular gestures. over time, any guy will get a ‘feel’ for what he needs to do to attract a girl and what gestures make him look whipped/needy/weak compared to other guys.

As a lot of women have pointed out, these gestures look weird/cheesy/creepy/etc to them and a lot of guys who dont do any of these things will get the girl and this guy wont. its not so much a ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ situation, just getting a ‘feel’ for whats ok generally and what works in your dating life.

You can still do these things when u r with some family member (mom/sis/aunt/cuz/etc) - open doors, walk on the windy/rainy/water-will-splash-from-the-street side, hold chairs, help with coats, etc. good chance u will be appreciated and noted as doing a kind and thoughtful thing as a nice person.

but with your dates, if this makes u look weird (and u will get the vibe, this way or that), stop doing these things.

a lot of these gestures come from a kind personality, not a whipped/chauvinistic/patronizing one.

let the girl win a game: maybe he plays it all the time, and is very good at it, and it will be a long time before she comes close to his level, so he’s not playing that game with her seriously at that point, so aggressively trying to win at that point is an overkill

lots of girls kickass in pool/poker/scrabble/etc. a guy wouldnt have to let her win, in that case, and he wouldnt…. he’d try his damnedest to make sure he won…

hold a purse: if the girl needs to do something, so she asks the guy to, or he is attentive and offers in this situation

order her food: if he has gone to that restaurant or knows that cuisine (or language italian/french/spanish/etc) very well and knows for a fact that she is not so familiar with it. he might know the good dishes and order something that she would like… but if this gets her goat, dont do it, even if by chance she orders something that she’s not completely happy with, and your choice would have been better, its not the end of the world.

similar arguments apply to most such gestures, so, once again, guys need to figure out why they do these things, if these gestures, even if kindly and thoughtfully meant, are going to make the girl think u r whipped/cheesy/weak, u r better off not doing them, the girl wont trip&fall;, sprain her hand, dirty her dress, get food poisoning etc if u dont do these things, so not doing them is not the end of the world, and in fact, u might just get/keep the girl.

jgd1208
wrote on September 25 2009 @ 11:50 am: [report]

OMG… a date walked me to the restroom once in a restaurant AND waited outside for me. I asked him, “you think I’m going to escape out of the window or something”?.. hahahahaha.

Oyto
wrote on September 26 2009 @ 06:40 am: [report]

Regarding #6, you’re right, a man should not ask her father for his daughter’s hand (after all, this isn’t Saudi Arabia and women aren’t property), he should ask her father for his blessing. If the blessing isn’t forthcoming, perhaps you should talk, but a woman’s father should not be in control of her romantic life.

Regarding #7, thanks ladies, but if we’ve asked you out, we pay the bill which includes the tip. Yes, you can certainly get the round of drinks after.

323Felicity
wrote on September 26 2009 @ 06:36 pm: [report]

well, i guess i agree with many of these things. except pulling out the chair is nice if we’re somewhere fancy-ish. and also sometimes i ask my guy to hold my purse (just for a second!) and that doesn’t make him emasculated to me. however i think it does if a girl asks the guy to carry her bag for an extended period of time. about #6, i agree with oyto on this one. a man should ask a woman to marry him First, then get her family’s blessing out of respect, not just her dad.
one more thing: what kind of grown man says “tinkle”? (unless he is talking to a small child.)

vanya
wrote on September 26 2009 @ 08:54 pm: [report]

Re: #1 - You’re supposed to tell your date what you choose, and he then tells the server. He doesn’t choose your meal for you.

Maybe it is outdated, but it’s harmless and never bothered me any. Comes in handy when the waitress shows up to take the order just after I’ve left to use the washroom, too.

I have to agree with dopaminer & oyto about chipping in on the tip. This makes no sense to me. If you’re inclined to offer to pay a little bit, why not offer to pay half?

adamjs
wrote on September 26 2009 @ 09:40 pm: [report]

i don’t see the big issue with any of them in moderation if pulled off correctly

If these gestures creep you out, which are usually meant in good faith, even if the execution usually leaves much to be desired - how the hell do you handle leaving the house without a panic attack?

effing hickster
wrote on September 26 2009 @ 09:48 pm: [report]

@BeholdAUnicorn: I think the sentence: “No honey, I don’t think you can order macaroni and cheese at this restaurant” applies to both under 5’s and some men over 21. LOL!

Shriekback68
wrote on September 27 2009 @ 01:59 am: [report]

Some of these are a bit weird, and quite frankly I don’t know who really does them anymore.

But what I find odd is that this is yet another “list” by a woman telling us men about what we’re doing wrong and what we shouldn’t be doing when we’re in a relationship. How about telling us what we’re doing RIGHT for a change?? I’m getting tired of seeing these dumb articles. All the articles about what men do right in relationships seem to be written by…men.

Step up, ladies. It’s easy to criticize. It takes real courage to point out others’ successes.

Gingee
wrote on September 27 2009 @ 03:59 am: [report]

Oh my.

What my guy does right: One thing mattters the most. He listens. He does not offer advice, unless I ask for it, and given how smart he is, he’s the first person I will ask.

He’s there for me, with open arms and a hug waiting.

When he’s having a bad day, he tell sme that he needs to be alone.

When he’s having a good day, he tells me why it was a good day.

He appreciates when I put energy into finding something he wants.

He has no malice toward anyone.

He’s a good guy. Just being around him has made my life so much better.

The other things: Helping me on with my coat, whatever that article said, those are okay, even if they do seem like relics from the 1940s, and while I never object when and if he does any of that, he’s so great in other ways: Ahhh, I’ll shush now.

Faith+1
wrote on September 27 2009 @ 06:33 am: [report]

1. The tradition is often misinterpreted. He isn’t supposed to order for you. He’s supposed to find out what you want and speak to the waiter. The courtesy is extended to the woman so she isn’t forced to speak loudly in what may be a loud environment. Old fashioned, yes, disrectful, no. Unless, of course, the clod has misinterpreted the custom as ordering your food for you without asking what you wanted. That’s just wrong.

2. Never. I’m too competitive. I will respectfully not perform some sort of “winning dance” upon my victory, but bring your A Game baby cuz I ain’t cutting anyone any slack. Want to win my heart? Show me you can challenge me…

3. Childish terms I agree. Crude terms I agree. Basic, “I have to go to the restroom” though with my current girlfriend I have used a “code word” that was inside joke of a particularly hilarious moment we once had…

4. Pulling out my chair. Always….and he’s supposed to push it back in as well.

5. Carrying my purse. I’ve done it when asked. The girlfriend never asks unless it is because she needs both her hands for something. I’m secure enough in my manhood to not let holding her purse be an issue. What? Am I supposed to say, “Sorry, I’m so insecure in my self image as a man that the simple of act of holding a purse makes me question my sexual orientation?”—talk about being whipped… Now, if she asked me to hold it just so she could show others she has me in control—no, I wouldn’t do it…nor would there be a follow-up date. It’s about respect.

6. Asking my dad for my hand in marriage. It ain’t about you in this one. It’s about showing respect to the father and the family.

7. Paying for dinner. If I ask you out I’m paying. Unless otherwise pre-determined I always pick up the tab. If you are adults work it out.

8. Helping me put me coat on. I always do this…but then again I pay attention to the coat type and adjust the hold according to what will work the easiest for her. A true gentleman will pay attention.

Whenever I see these types of lists there are often the types of responses I see from many women who think the acts are done or attempted because they are female.

It has nothing to do with you being a lady. It has everything to do with me being a gentleman.

plasticrose
wrote on September 27 2009 @ 12:41 pm: [report]

I agree with 2, 3 & 7. The others I don’t expect, but I wouldn’t find it creepy or weird. I really would not appreciate it if a man asked my father for ‘my hand in marriage’. First of all, my dad and I are not close so it would be very weird for me. Secondly, if you really loved me, you would marry me no matter what my parents think, and my ‘hand’ is mine to give, not his. Thirdly, I would rather we go round for lunch after I’ve said ‘yes’ and tell them together that we want to get married and get their blessing that way. I want to see their faces when they find out for the first time. You can ‘ask’ them if you want to be respectful, but only if you ask ME first. I think it’s a bit harsh to be annoyed by a guy trying to help you with your coat or something where they’re just trying to be sweet and thoughtful, even if he does do it wrong. At least he cared enough to try.

melissaann
wrote on September 27 2009 @ 06:48 pm: [report]

I recently told my mom to prepare for the fact that my man will NOT be involving my dad in our decision to get married. My mom told me not to worry, because my dad never asked HER father because everyone knew my grandpa didn’t like my dad. HA. I can’t blame my grandpa.
My relationship with dear ole dad has been rocky for various reasons. He is one critical person. It would be VERY disrespectful to me if Brian asked my dad. My marriage has nothing to do with him in the same way he wouldn’t ask the mailman for permission. So I know he won’t.

But that’s just me. I am not a daddy’s girl, I am my own girl.

sandwichofdoom
wrote on October 1 2009 @ 07:10 pm: [report]

Honestly, I wouldn’t want a guy asking my father for permission to marry me. It’s -my- choice and -not- his. Presumably, by the time a guy is ready to get married, I will know what my family thinks of him, and I can take that into account, but… Asking my dad before me is really a little paternalistic and antiquated. And for those who don’t find it at least a -little- sexist, notice it’s -dad- whose permission is important, not mom.

Gingee
wrote on October 2 2009 @ 05:49 am: [report]

Your observation nailed what was bothering me:

“notice it’s-dad-whose permission is important, not mom.”

It is paternalistic, antiquated and creepy that Momma’s okay is not given equal value.

jenny9255
wrote on October 2 2009 @ 01:20 pm: [report]

Hm i still like when a guy does all that, and the walking to the washroom thing, well that’s not new. When men have to do all these little extra things for you, I think it makes you more special and worthy to him. Just my opinion…

Wrigley
wrote on October 3 2009 @ 10:17 pm: [report]

Don’t pull out my chair, don’t help me with my coat, don’t ask my parents about marriage. We’ll continue with don’t open the door for me, don’t walk on the curbside of the street for me, don’t offer me a hand up a step. So, I bet you don’t get asked out a lot, you don’t go on dates much, you don’t have much success dating.

All of the above sound like simple gentlemanly things to do and should be done when dating or married. It’s simply a matter of respecting the person you’re with.

Geez, such generalizations.

Gingee
wrote on October 4 2009 @ 08:58 am: [report]

Dear WRIGLEY:

Plase take the chill-out pill.

In context, these ‘rules’ seem a bit odd and I shall explain why:

1) Ordering my meal for me: Unless we are a couple, you won’t know my preferences, if I’m Jewish, or on a restricted diet, and if the guy orders something that I am forbidden to eat, he’s just wasted his time and money, and left me hungry. But, if he asks, and then orders for both of us, that is fine.

2) Letting me win at a game. Isn’t this a mere reversal of the days when we gals were instructed by well-meaning but outdated aunties to never show off how smart we are, that no guy likes being with a gal who is smarter than he is? It is sexism, in reverse.

3) Using a code term for going to the bathroom. What is wrong with saying, “Excuse me?

4) Pulling out my chair. The best restaurant, we the one we go to, has no chairs. It has booths. I’d feel dreadfully much like laughing if the date were to attempt to help me find a place on a booth. The other option: This wonderful place has booths at the counter. They are bolted into place. There’s not a lot the guy can do except offer his elbow.

5) Carrying my purse. I do not carry a purse. On the rare occasions when I do have one,, it is small, about 4 inches by 5 inches, with a strap that hangs at the hip. But, hey, if it makes the guy feel macho to have that strapped across his chest, go for it, big guy.

6) Asking for the father’s hand in marriage? [In Hannibal Lecter’s voice} Noooooo. Back to normal voice, first ask me, and then both of us visit Momma and Poppa and ask them for their approval. Anyway, I know Poppa better than You, Mr. guy, he’s going to say “No.”

7) The dinner thing: I AM going to add to the tip.

8) Helping with my putting on the coat. No problem.

secretstevie
wrote on October 4 2009 @ 02:20 pm: [report]

if a man ever asked my family ‘permission’ to marry me, i would know he is the wrong guy for me. don’t get me wrong i am very close to my family but i am also an independent woman capable of making my own decisions. asking the father’s permission beforehand just reminds me of a time when i would have been worth 4 cows and half an acre of property.

anyastar
wrote on October 4 2009 @ 07:30 pm: [report]

I’m rather perplexed as to why some people think that, if one dislikes some of these moves, then one would rather have a complete jerk. Trust me, it’s definitely not one or the other.

What’s “chivalry” to me? Being treated as capable. Being treated as an equal. I don’t mind sweet, thoughtful gestures; I’d be a fool if I did! What I do mind is the expectation that a man will do certain things to protect a woman’s supposed delicacy and vulnerability, and the expectation that a man will treat a woman like a doll and place her on a pedestal. I also mind the fact that people don’t take a moment to think about where these moves come from. Every single one of them came not from some desire to show care and respect, but from the idea that women were both the weaker sex and the property of men. Does that mean that all men who act this way view women in such a light? Of course not; they’re just following custom without knowing why. But it pays to question custom.

These are the questions I pose: if it’s only about being thoughtful, then why isn’t it more common for women to do the same for their men? Ladies, would you ever pull out the chair for your date? Would you ever put his coat on for him? Would you ever order for him? If not, then why not? Wouldn’t you be showing him that you care?

If asking a woman’s father for her hand in marriage is about respecting family and acknowledging that marriage represents the expansion of family, then why don’t women ask a man’s father, or mother, for his hand in marriage? Surely, if this tradition has nothing to do with the idea of women as property, then this should be proper and common. So why aren’t any of you planning to do it? Why aren’t you checking with his family before saying “yes” to his proposal? Why does he seem to be unhindered by the wishes of his family, while your family must openly agree to your union before it will proceed?

Why, why, WHY, if old-fashioned chivalry is only about respect, and only about being nice, and only about showing that one cares, are men the only ones who are supposed to do it?

develange
wrote on October 4 2009 @ 09:41 pm: [report]

@TheRon: you talk a lot of #&@$% and offer no solutions. Or any real evidence, other than your horrible experiences with and views of women.

adamjs
wrote on October 4 2009 @ 09:54 pm: [report]

@develange: maybe this site is as close to women as his court order allows?

majicksand
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 08:00 am: [report]

I think TheRon is luvtara’s boyfriend.

_jsw_
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 08:12 am: [report]

@majicksand: I miss luvtara. I’ve forgotten HOW to randomly capitalize WORDS and write with poor grammatical and then lol act all happyish. =D

But yes, if TheRon isn’t her boyfriend, he should be next in line.

brandyalexander
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 08:21 am: [report]

my name is brandy, and i is in your computer, following your comments…
i miss the random “quotations” around anything ‘and” everything…

Gingee
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 10:15 am: [report]

Oh goodie. let us play the Matchmaker game. I’d love to pair up the guy who thinks women get pregnant to trap men into marriage with anything but a human.

To the rest of these relics of when women were chattel:

As far as that bit about the man’s asking the father if he may have Father’s Property, the daughter, c’mon, it’s 2009 in the Julian calendar.

Why not start a new tradition? The guy asks HIS father and stepmother and his mother and her new husband for permission to marry, or:

The gal asks both sets of parents for their permission to marry the guy.

One Rule should apply to everyone: Those who tyoe “a women” would be obligated to marry those who use LOL.

As ANYSTAR has already suggested: If these Rules are about courtesy, then women can do the same:

Order dinner for both, pull out his chair, stand up when he enters the room, and for all I know, cut the meat into bite-sized portions, as well as carrying some Dental Floss, less the dear need reminding that one flosses only the teeth one wishes to keep.

Cheers.

SouthOC
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 10:54 am: [report]

Women differ dramatically on this subject, and sometimes we just have to respect both sides.

True story: One time I was leaving an office building, and held the door open for two different women. The first one smiled at me and said “Thank you for being so kind.” The next one looked at me like I was a piece of trash and said. “pfffffft!, does it look like my arm is broken?”

I just laughed, and continued on with my life, knowing I was making my mamma proud by being a gentlemen (whether they like it or not).

develange
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 11:38 am: [report]

sorry “9times,” your douchiness isn’t any less acceptable when followed by LOL and a smiley. seriously?

whatever your definition of “real” and “the real world” is, it is #&@$% scary and backward. Go back to your cave.

And sorry, you’re NOT a man. No one here has respect for you. I doubt anyone in the “real world” does, either.

This is the reason why feminism was created: to get away from ignorant, disturbed, backward thinkers like you.

You must not know any “real” women, because none of them would get close enough to you for you to judge whether they are selfish, cowardly, whiners, etc.

Now you’re calling other men fags? Wow, you must really hate people. I hope you never have children.

And TheFrisky represents many women. You’re just going to have to accept that. Quit whining and buy yourself a blow up doll.

bumbler
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 11:45 am: [report]

Yawn. Reported.

develange
wrote on October 5 2009 @ 11:48 am: [report]

funny you say that. most of the women on this site, including myself, hate Cosmo. It’s clear you haven’t read or understood anything before embarking on your sad ranting mission.

LOL!

I’m not going to respond anymore, because, like a two-year old, you thrive off attention! LOL

Fyndy
wrote on October 6 2009 @ 12:04 am: [report]

I love how the articles go from one simple topic to rants about being treated equal, to feminisim, etc. It’s like watching a bad movie.

laurzipan
wrote on October 6 2009 @ 09:57 am: [report]

the only reason i ask my fiance to hold my bag is if i need both my hands free to tie my shoe or put my jacket on… he’s kind enough to hold it for 10 seconds so i don’t have to put it on the dirty ground.

develange
wrote on October 6 2009 @ 02:48 pm: [report]

oh my god THANK YOU Frisky. i’m tired of seeing “dumb c u n t” in my email. where do these freaks come from.

bumbler
wrote on October 6 2009 @ 02:54 pm: [report]

@develange from this site http://antimisandry.com/discrimination-raw-deals/cnn-approved-feminist-website-frisky-promotes-rape-minors-22733.html

PolishKnight
wrote on October 6 2009 @ 06:50 pm: [report]

Why Kate wants to pay for drinks/and or tip, “she swears”.

I’ll solve the mystery for all of you. Because she wants, and I don’t like this pun, a cheap way to be equal. As other men pointed out, they see through the stunt and wonder why she doesn’t pay the whole thing. Same thing with offers to pay half: If the man takes them, he’s through. It’s been in Cosmo a hundred times!

In addition, the other stuff that “creeps” her out: The chair-pulling and coat-putting-on are public displays that she’s out on a date. You don’t think that men did that because they worship women, do you? It’s us marking our territory. If you like us and you’re not wasting our time, it’s not a problem. If Brad Pitt held your chair and coat, you wouldn’t mind.

Ok, I know that’s blunt and all but it had to be said. Tough love.

BluValkyrie
wrote on October 6 2009 @ 08:13 pm: [report]

I do not agree with this list, especially #6.

spqalma
wrote on October 7 2009 @ 09:56 am: [report]

When I am on a date, I like to know that I am being considered. So if my date pulls out my chair for me, or holds open a door, if he relieves me of the burden of my purse and helps me off or on with my coat, why would I resent that? I know that HE knows I am capable of doing these things myself, but the point is not whether or not I am capable. The point is that he is showing me that he is there and willing to assist in any way he can. Sometimes, even when you CAN do something, it’s just nice not to have to. I am all for chivalry…and that goes for guys and girls. Both parties have ways they can make the other feel special, not out of obligation, but hopefully out of desire.

ariscari
wrote on October 8 2009 @ 11:38 am: [report]

Sometimes its the little things like getting the car door that show he’s a gentleman. Who am I to complain if he wants to walk around his truck to help me out? I’m 5’2” and that kind of chivalry is saving us time and hospital bills for broken ankles…

kaylzazz
wrote on October 8 2009 @ 05:29 pm: [report]

lol sexist. why are so many of the female-directed/written articles on this website so sexist? feminism is not dead, you know.

develange
wrote on October 8 2009 @ 05:58 pm: [report]

@ bumbler:

so i finally checked out that link and I’m amazed. I CAN see how someone could be offended about talking sex with minors (though it is just talking, dreaming, not doing), but seriously? the fact that it’s this troll douche, with his “women this and women that,” who has spent days calling women fugly #&@$% and bitches, is so ridiculous. Why is he allowed to talk? He probably doesn’t give two sh*its about the “promoting rape of minors,” he just wants to sh*it on women.

Frisky Noetic
wrote on October 14 2009 @ 11:37 am: [report]

If it is a matter of demonstrating that he cares, then I see it as a very sweet gesture to be appreciated. However, there are some that engage in these as a form of control and seriously think that the woman is incapable (vulnerable, too delicate, etc) or that they themselves are less of a man if they don’t do these things. The gestures truly seem to be more of the former, though. Thank you, gentlemen.

I am a confident, capable, “tom boyish” & sturdy woman that enjoys those little things described here. I don’t expect them to occur or feel slighted if they do or don’t happen. I see it for what it usually is: one person doing something nice for another… as I am bound to do something similar to show I am considerate. Now, on to address the list from the article:

1. Food. I may know what I want in other areas of my life, but when it comes to food selection, my mind draws a blank. There is really nothing I don’t like, so unless I have a specific taste for something, I really appreciate when he suggests a restaurant, suggests a dish or out right orders for us (especially if we are sharing).

2. Winning. Well, I’d rather have my a$$ kicked then be handed over a game. I’m not a kid. I may suck at most games, but I competitively suck. So if I win on my own efforts I’m gleeful.

3. Bathroom. However you want to say it- code name or outright, I don’t care. Whatever is good for you is good for me. It is just a bodily function.

4. Chair. He does not need to pull out my chair every time, naturally, or at all. But if he does, it is sweet. Just pull the chair out, as pushing it back in could be awkward or dangerous.

5. Purse. Likely this situation is only going to arise if I need to be temporarily free of that burden, so thank you in advance, gentlemen. I never ever see it as a bad thing when I see a man holding a purse. As _jsw_ said,

It doesn’t snip testicles or leach testosterone. It doesn’t change your sexual orientation. All holding a purse really does to a man is make it obvious whether or not he’s comfortable in his own skin

6. Marriage. In modern times, asking both of the parents for marriage approval is respectful and thoughtful. Necessary?, no. Desired, even? no. Creepy? yes, only if you are discussing how many cows & goats I am worth.
7. Dinner. If you offer to pay for dinner, then likely I won’t insist on paying the tip. Just pay for all of it, as it is easier. Next time though, I’ll be paying for dinner (and the tip). It is nice to be treated and to treat someone on dates.

8.Coat. Again, not necessary to put my coat on every time or at all, but it is a very sweet gesture that I have enjoyed casually and at events that require more formal attire. I agree that it is necessary to help him with the process. It is less about someone helping you literally get dressed than it is a polite action, like holding a door…let me hold your sweater open while you slip your arms in.

Outside of this list, I really like having my car door opened to get in. yet I’m much too low key of a person to expect it or want it all of the time. But I have dated and/or been in relationships when the door was opened to get in most of the time. It was nice. Though to wait for him to come around to open the door so I can get out of the car, I think that would be awkward and generally not welcome.

So what it comes down to is men and women doing considerate things for each other, and just enjoy it for it being that.

Rokkor
wrote on October 14 2009 @ 03:30 pm: [report]

As a guy, I’m against all of these. They may traditionally considered chivalrous, but you’re not dating an invalid, she can sit down without help. I’ll watch a purse or hand her her coat, but that’s about as far as I’ll go. There’s a lot better ways of showing her you care than treating her like she’s a four year old.

TheLadyN
wrote on October 16 2009 @ 11:42 pm: [report]

At first these things really bothered me. I couldn’t stand it. It actually made me mad and I considered it to be an insult. However, now I LOVE IT when the one my husband does this. I have never been treated so well. When I met my husband I yelled at him when he would do these things. It freaked me out. But I love it now. I hope he doesn’t pay attention when he reads stuff like this. It so sweet that he takes the time to do all of this. It makes me all the more happy to get up early and fix breakfast, pack his lunch, and make him a quilt that looks exactly the way he wants it too. Anyway, I think it’s great and completely disagree with this article. I think too many people try to hard to be completely independent and lose out in the fun of being there for someone else. (And this isn’t a generation thing either. I’m only turning 24!)

wild-ting
wrote on October 17 2009 @ 09:41 am: [report]

I don’t agree with most of what bothers you or you consider to be weird chivalry. I don’t mind if a man orders for me, it is very polite though most men DO NOT do this. However, they are not picking my meal. I have told them what I wanted and they simply relay that to the waitperson. Yes, pull my chair out for me. I think it’s strange not to have that done. And certainly, men young and old assist you with putting on your coat. Thank you for that.

It’s never attractive for anyone to hold back on their skills to “let” you win. If you’re good show me, plus I like a challenge.

When I am out with my Dad he always wants to carry my purse of packages. I don’t like this. He lost a package once :-(
My ex-bf would occasionally ask to carry my purse, I would say no. He say, “you sure”. I would firmly say “No.”

As for who pays for dinner. Of course I love it when they pay. But I don’t mind paying, or putting in type or buying drinks. I just go with the flow on that one.

belindajulie
wrote on October 17 2009 @ 07:32 pm: [report]

I disagree with #4,6,& 8. I grew up in the south and was fortunate to date some fantastic modern southern gentlemen who were so great at doing these things. I think that’s the key—the guy had to be able to these things with finesses otherwise it becomes really awkward.

#4: Anyone who ever attempted this succeeded but where we were played also helped: a really classy restaurant, me in heels, the chair being really bulky, I needed a little help to scoot in like a lady.

#6. If my future husband doesn’t at least attempt to talk to my parents… that doesn’t bode well for him. To me, marriage isn’t just about us (I mean, it is…but your family will obviously continue to be a big part of your lives) so getting my parents’ blessing? Big deal.

#8: Again, the man needs to know how to do this. If he can’t, then he should just hand you your coat. Ugh. Unfortunately I’ve seen guys totally fail at this and it just becomes awkward. But when you one side on by yourself, then he helps with the other—perfect gentleman.

omnimancer
wrote on October 18 2009 @ 11:51 pm: [report]

for the love of god, i agree with each and every one. I’m not a little weakling that has to be coddled, i can do some stuff myself, honest.
My now-fiance used to do #2 in the beginning of our relationship but stopped because i would snap at him each time. He now knows that i like a challenge and if he goes easy on me and i win, i feel gipped.

gingerbreadmen
wrote on October 25 2009 @ 06:53 pm: [report]

As a guy I would pretty much agree with all of those, I never do any of those anyway, other than pulling the girl’s chair out for her (I let her push it back in though).

However, I will qualify that by stating #6 is subject to the social atmosphere you’re in. The only girl I was ever close to proposing to was raised in the country, and both her and her family were quite socially conservative. While I wouldn’t normally ask a woman’s father, in that situation I wasn’t sure whether I should. So I simply asked her whether she wanted me to or not, we talked about it, and she didn’t… problem solved.

bbbbbbbbb
wrote on November 17 2009 @ 07:08 pm: [report]

I am from the South (a city) and all of this is expected. I feel sorry for girls who dislike chivalry - they are missing out on some of the great aspects of being a woman. I am independent with a strong career and I definitely expect these things. Any man who is from the South and from a decent family is taught these things. I’ve lived up North and I feel sorry for you Northern girls - start expecting more!!!

bonnykate
wrote on November 19 2009 @ 05:25 pm: [report]

I’m actually not bothered by a couple of those traditions, actually - or at least their mods. For example, my parents had expressed a desire for my now husband to ask for their blessing before proposing to me. I know this is old-fashioned, but heck, it’s not like we were actually going to base our opinion on what they said, AND it’s a nice gesture. The important thing is that it’s asking BOTH parents for their BLESSING, not for permission. Elders get a show of respect, and the woman “in question” maintains her right to consent to the marriage.

The coat and the chair thing also doesn’t strike me as too weird - if he does it right, it does feel like a nice gesture, though of course technically unnecessary (that might be what makes it nice for me . . .). These two, along with getting the door, should be treated as purely elective.

Walking a woman to the bathroom, though? No thanks!

tasinda
wrote on December 1 2009 @ 09:32 pm: [report]

Horrible. Shame on these men. For a man to offer anything to me? ME? Like, walk me anywhere, as if I’m mentally inept, or hold out my chair like I’m crippled, or attempt to show me any kind of extra respect just because I’m a woman. Or, god forbid, pay the tab and not ASK ME to help out? PUH-LEEZE!

Just treat me like another guy, okay? I’m no different than you guys, okay?

Who said I wanted to be treated any differently? Hold the door open for me? Hello? Like I cannot hold a door open myself?

How dare these men try these antics upon us? It’s DEMEANING! We don’t want special treatment, we want to be treated like CRAP! Like men treat each other!

Next time you are out on a date with a woman like me, guys, just make crass, crude jokes all night, leer at all the other attractive women as they walk in, then throw some money on the table when we’re done eating and walk out the door with a casual, “see ya” thrown over your shoulder.

God knows I don’t want anything that might smack of us being different sexually or anything. Good god NO! That could lead to…oh I don’t know…really hot sex or something.

Jonjo Powers
wrote on December 2 2009 @ 08:19 am: [report]

My advice is that if you can’t sit in a chair properly or manage to get your coat on with someone holding it for you, you should probably stay home anyway.

The key to a man ordering for you is that you tell him what you would like. Some women prefer to have the man order, some don’t.

But yes, if he says “I’ve got to tinkle,” or carries your purse for you, it’s time to move on.

...
wrote on December 2 2009 @ 08:02 pm: [report]

Well, it’s not like I’ve never been accused of being creepy before. *eyeroll*

symone
wrote on December 3 2009 @ 09:16 pm: [report]

The only one I don’t agree with is #6. My family and I are very close and if my man didn’t AT LEAST ask my grandfather for my hand (especially me, being the oldest and all), there would be hell to pay. My grandpa is very old school and likes guns….

I wouldn’t mind you following me to the bathroom though if it meant a quickie. Shame on me, but sex in public is fun ;D

MuchoMacho
wrote on December 4 2009 @ 09:54 am: [report]

1 - not into it. its not 1950. you can read. and you can choose what you want to eat.
2 - sorry. im so good at certain things that we would never play at all if i tried hard. as long as its giggly fun and not cut throat, throwing a game happens.
3 - lol. my code word is ‘poop’. i worked at a daycare and thats the one word we used daily that stuck with me.
4 - its chivalrous, and im doing it.
5 - i will hold it BRIEFLY if youre hands are about to be full… but i have like a 10 second rule. too femmy.
6 - i have had gf’s whos fathers i would have asked/told before proposing out of respect. it has more to do with my relationship with the father than anything. not the case with my current gf, and the one i plan to marry (when were ready).
7 - deal.
8 - same as pulling out the chair. plus from dressing all the little kids i know the technique. you hold one shoulder up and let her feed her arm through then bring the other one up

Scoobysnack
wrote on December 4 2009 @ 02:24 pm: [report]

i agree with 1-3, but i think the rest of the list is a little feminista. what’s wrong with a little chivalry? It’s better than a man who does nothing for you!

about #7… you should just stop offering. Really.

justme234
wrote on December 6 2009 @ 06:37 pm: [report]

All the contradictory responses made me laugh - reminded me of a time I was up in NYC on business; I live in a large southern city. As a gentleman, you step aside and let ladies on and off the elevator first; this rule may be violated if the elevator is stuffed full and you are the person right in the doorway. I was on an elevator in NYC that was relatively crowded, but there was plenty of room to stand aside for the ladies. At home everyone would understand what their places and movements would be. Without thinking about the city I was in, as the door opened I went to step aside only to realize that the women and men (not ladies and gentlemen) behind me were pushing me out of the way not giving me even a moment to step sideways to let any ladies out first.

The fact that anyone is “creeped” out by most of these actions just reflects their upbringing and the upbringing of those around them. I feel sorry for you.

dsedwards12
wrote on December 8 2009 @ 07:20 am: [report]

Chivalry is dead and women have killed it. Men can’t effectively woo a lady anymore because he may insult her individualism. What I got from this post is when on a date I should let her freeze, pay only my half of the tab, and let the door swing closed on her. I’ve always been told, by women, that this kind of behavior was considered rude and would not warrant a second date. This blogger’s opinion should not be given as advice for men. If your date doesn’t appreciate you taking the extra effort to open doors, pay for dinner, or fork over your umbrella then she is not someone you should consider seeing again.

MuchoMacho
wrote on December 8 2009 @ 09:49 am: [report]

the real blog should have read “when youre date brings these things up, nod your head in agreement, but make sure you do them all anyway.” in todays dating world, you have to SOUND like youre a progressive PC femenist puss-boy, but ACT like a chivalrous gentleman dripping with machismo… hypocrites.

fae430
wrote on January 6 2010 @ 05:00 pm: [report]

I think that most of the things are sweet my boyfriend hold doors open for me and he used to buy me lunch back in high school ( though I took out to dinner to make us even and he didn’t mind ) but I am glad he has never tried to order food for me or let me win at games (I HATE anyone who lets me win at games) he also came in and meet my parents before our first date witch is good since I am really close to my dad and want them to get along (My dad loves him witch is good) I love my sweetheart and the fact that he is so sweet to me

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8 So-Called “Chivalrous” Moves That Creep Us Out